Biblican Posted October 23, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.41 Reputation: 143 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/30/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 23, 2020 On 10/21/2020 at 5:40 PM, R. Hartono said: The 144000 in Rev 14 welcome Jesus 2nd coming to mount Zion at His 2nd coming with raptured saints after defeatinf antichrist at Atmageddon battle. I don't see the 144,000 with Jesus on Mount Zion as the second coming. This is prophetic symbolism. In scripture mountains can mean a place of intimacy with God. Moses climbed a mountain to commune with God and so did Jesus. Thus we are being shown that the 1444,000 have an intimate relationship with Jesus. Jesus does not actually return until chapter 19. So what we are being shown in chapter 14 is that those who have been raptured have an intimate relationship with Jesus. They are in heaven in chapter 14 before the tribulation actually begins after the seventh trumpet has sounded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moby Posted October 24, 2020 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 266 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 39 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/21/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 24, 2020 On 10/21/2020 at 9:41 AM, The Light said: Complete BALDERDASH. Are you making this stuff up or is there an alternative source that has blinded you. Why don't you try just reading what the Word says and letting it speak for itself instead of pumping out this balderdash. The 144,000 are exactly what the Word says they are. There is no mystery here. The 144,000 are from the 12 tribes of Israel. Rev 7 3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. 4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. 5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. 6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand. 7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. 8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand. Sorry but just because there are 12,000 of 12 tribes of physical Israel are sealed near the end of the tribulation does not mean they are the 144,000 on mount Zion who are sent forth by Jesus at the beginning of the tribulation: Revelation 14:1-5 And I saw, and behold, the Lamb standing on the mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty and four thousand, having his name, and the name of his Father, written on their foreheads. (2) And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and the voice which I heard was as the voice of harpers harping with their harps: (3) and they sing as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four living creatures and the elders: and no man could learn the song save the hundred and forty and four thousand, even they that had been purchased out of the earth. (4) These are they that were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they that follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were purchased from among men, to be the firstfruits unto God and unto the Lamb. (5) And in their mouth was found no lie: they are without blemish. You will be here to witness their latter rain anointing and power when the first seal is opened: Revelation 6:1-2 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures saying as with a voice of thunder, Come. (2) And I saw, and behold, a white horse, and he that sat thereon had a bow; and there was given unto him a crown: and he came forth conquering, and to conquer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moby Posted October 24, 2020 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 266 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 39 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/21/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 24, 2020 On 10/21/2020 at 5:40 PM, R. Hartono said: The 144000 in Rev 14 welcome Jesus 2nd coming to mount Zion at His 2nd coming with raptured saints after defeating antichrist at Armageddon battle. Sorry bro but you have the 144,000 at the wrong end of the last 8 years: https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Light Posted October 24, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,087 Content Per Day: 1.11 Reputation: 202 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/17/2019 Status: Online Share Posted October 24, 2020 (edited) 21 hours ago, Moby said: Sorry but just because there are 12,000 of 12 tribes of physical Israel are sealed near the end of the tribulation does not mean they are the 144,000 on mount Zion who are sent forth by Jesus at the beginning of the tribulation: If you think that the 144,000 in Rev 7 is not the 144,000 in Rev 14, you should probably try taking up golf. Quote You will be here to witness their latter rain anointing and power when the first seal is opened: Revelation 6:1-2 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures saying as with a voice of thunder, Come. (2) And I saw, and behold, a white horse, and he that sat thereon had a bow; and there was given unto him a crown: and he came forth conquering, and to conquer. I'm leaving with the early rains harvest. You can hang around for the 70th week of Daniel if you choose. Edited October 24, 2020 by The Light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moby Posted October 25, 2020 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 266 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 39 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/21/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 25, 2020 12 hours ago, The Light said: If you think that the 144,000 in Rev 7 is not the 144,000 in Rev 14, you should probably try taking up golf. I'm leaving with the early rains harvest. You can hang around for the 70th week of Daniel if you choose. Father knew He would stump many a Christian as to who the Rev 14 ~ 144,000 were that are released with the 1st seal by making the number of Jews coming into the kingdom of God at the end of the tribulation the same number: Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing; But the glory of kings is to search out a matter. I suggest you study Hosea as there is much in there you do not understand "yet": Hosea 1:9-11 And Jehovah said, Call his name Lo-ammi; for ye(physical Israel) are not my people, and I will not be your God. (10) Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass that, in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God. (11) And the children of Judah(believing Jews and believing Gentiles called the church) and the children of Israel(the physical remnant of Israel that will be saved by the end of the tribulation) shall be gathered together(by the end of the tribulation), and they(believing Jews and believing Gentiles as ONE olive tree called All Israel) shall appoint themselves one head(Jesus), and shall go up from the land(resurrection/rapture); for great shall be the day of Jezreel. The former rain was over 1900 years ago so you won't be leaving until after the latter rain: Hosea 6:1-8 Come, and let us(remnant of physical Israel) return unto Jehovah; for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up. (2) After two days(after two thousand years from Hosea's day) will he revive us: on the third day(morning of the 7th millennium when Elohim finishes His work) he will raise us up(resurrection/rapture), and we shall live before him. (3) And let us know, let us follow on to know Jehovah: his going forth is sure as the morning(morning of the 7th millennium when Elohim finishes His work); and he will come unto us as the rain, as the latter rain that watereth the earth. (4) O Ephraim, what shall I do unto thee? O Judah, what shall I do unto thee? for your goodness is as a morning cloud, and as the dew that goeth early away. (5) Therefore have I hewed them by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of my mouth: and thy judgments are as the light that goeth forth. (6) For I desire goodness, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt-offerings. (7) But they like Adam(Gentile) have transgressed the covenant: there have they dealt treacherously against me. (8) Gilead is a city of them that work iniquity; it is stained with blood. I will leave you pondering why our Father made distinctions through Hosea who made a distinction of Ephraim, Israel, and Judahas three companies of peoples within the "house of Israel": Hosea 6:9-11 And as troops of robbers wait for a man, so the company of priests murder in the way toward Shechem; yea, they have committed lewdness. (10) In the house of Israel I have seen a horrible thing: there whoredom is found in Ephraim, Israel is defiled. (11) Also, O Judah, there is a harvest appointed for thee, when I bring back the captivity of my people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted October 25, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 350 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,514 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,415 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted October 25, 2020 How many grooms batter, bruise and kill their fiancée right before their wedding? What's the tribulation all about and who's the center of attention and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted October 25, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,993 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,691 Content Per Day: 11.75 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted October 25, 2020 On 10/18/2020 at 7:13 AM, Moby said: If you declare that you are a part of the Bride of Christ then Jesus very clearly proves you will not be leaving earth in some "secret rapture" before the 7 years of tribulation! The scriptures teach us that the first disciples were the bride of Christ that walked with Him over 1900 years ago: John 3:29 He(Jesus) that hath the bride(Jesus' disciples) is the bridegroom(Jesus): but the friend of the bridegroom, that standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is made full. We must remember that Jesus commissioned His disciples as the bride to go out and make more disciples of all nations as the bride which are some of us today who are living very close to the time of the end of the world: Matthew 28:19-20 Go ye(disciples~bride) therefore, and make disciples(bride) of all the nations(some bride from all nations), baptizing them(bride) into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit: (20) teaching them(bride) to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you(bride) always, even unto the end of the world. Now lets examine where Jesus as the bridegroom tells His disciples who are the bride when He will come for them as He teaches them on the mount of Olives: Matthew 24:3-4 And as he sat on the mount of Olives, the disciples(bride) came unto him privately, saying, Tell us(bride), when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy(bridegroom) coming, and of the end of the world? (4) And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man lead you(bride) astray. Jesus very clearly tells His disciples who are the bride that the bride will still be on the earth when the abomination of desolation is set up: Matthew 24:15 When therefore ye(bride) see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him(bride) that readeth understand), Jesus very clearly tells His disciples who are part of the bride that the bride will experience "great tribulation" which we know is the last half of on 7 years of tribulation: Matthew 24:20-22 And pray ye(bride) that your(bride) flight be not in the winter, neither on a sabbath: (21) for then shall be great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever shall be. (22) And except those days had been shortened, no flesh would have been saved: but for the elect's(bride) sake those days shall be shortened. It is not until AFTER the bride has witnessed the abomination of desolation being set up and AFTER the bride endures the "great tribulation" that Jesus promises to come in the clouds to call His elect bride home: Matthew 24:29-31 But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (30) and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man(bridegroom) coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (31) And he(bridegroom) shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect(bride) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Mark 13:24-27 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, (25) and the stars shall be falling from heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens shall be shaken. (26) And then shall they see the Son of man(bridegroom) coming in clouds with great power and glory. (27) And then shall he(bridegroom) send forth the angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. Luke 21:25-28 And there shall be signs in sun and moon and stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, in perplexity for the roaring of the sea and the billows; (26) men fainting for fear, and for expectation of the things which are coming on the world: for the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. (27) And then shall they see the Son of man(bridegroom) coming in a cloud with power and great glory. (28) But when these things begin to come to pass, look up, and lift up your(bride) heads; because your(bride) redemption draweth nigh. Jesus did warn His bride that there would be many in the church in these last days who think they're anointed with truth but are not. These false teachers will try to deceive the elect with silly ideas such as a pretrib secret rapture : Matthew 24:24-27 For there shall arise false Christs(falsely anointed), and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. (25) Behold, I have told you beforehand. (26) If therefore they9false teachers) shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the wilderness; go not forth: Behold, he is in the inner chambers; believe it not. (27) For as the lightning cometh forth from the east, and is seen even unto the west; so shall be the coming of the Son of man. There are many many other scriptures in this link that clearly prove there is only ONE resurrection/rapture AFTER the tribulation: https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/ You are wrong. The born again Christian will not experience the 7 year tribulation. Revelation 3:10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankIeCip Posted October 25, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 757 Content Per Day: 0.57 Reputation: 1,119 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/25/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/08/1978 Share Posted October 25, 2020 (edited) What does this mean? Revelation 7 13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes Edited October 25, 2020 by FrankIeCip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankIeCip Posted October 25, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 757 Content Per Day: 0.57 Reputation: 1,119 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/25/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/08/1978 Share Posted October 25, 2020 (edited) And this? Matthew 15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. 23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25Behold, I have told you before. The Return of the Son of Man (Mark 13:24-27; Luke 21:25-28) 26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. 29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Edited October 25, 2020 by FrankIeCip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankIeCip Posted October 25, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 757 Content Per Day: 0.57 Reputation: 1,119 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/25/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/08/1978 Share Posted October 25, 2020 1 Thes 4 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive andremain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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