If you are the Bride?

[Moby]

If you declare that you are a part of the Bride of Christ then Jesus very clearly proves you will not be leaving earth in some "secret rapture" before the 7 years of tribulation!

The scriptures teach us that the first disciples were the bride of Christ that walked with Him over 1900 years ago:

John 3:29  He(Jesus) that hath the bride(Jesus' disciples) is the bridegroom(Jesus): but the friend of the bridegroom, that standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is made full.

We must remember that Jesus commissioned His disciples as the bride to go out and make more disciples of all nations as the bride which are some of us today who are living very close to the time of the end of the world:

Matthew 28:19-20  Go ye(disciples~bride) therefore, and make disciples(bride) of all the nations(some bride from all nations), baptizing them(bride) into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit:  (20)  teaching them(bride) to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you(bride) always, even unto the end of the world.

Now lets examine where Jesus as the bridegroom tells His disciples who are the bride when He will come for them as He teaches them on the mount of Olives:

Matthew 24:3-4  And as he sat on the mount of Olives, the disciples(bride) came unto him privately, saying, Tell us(bride), when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy(bridegroom) coming, and of the end of the world?  (4)  And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man lead you(bride) astray.

Jesus very clearly tells His disciples who are the bride that the bride will still be on the earth when the abomination of desolation is set up:

Matthew 24:15  When therefore ye(bride) see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him(bride) that readeth understand),

Jesus very clearly tells His disciples who are part of the bride that the bride will experience "great tribulation" which we know is the last half of on 7 years of tribulation:

Matthew 24:20-22  And pray ye(bride) that your(bride) flight be not in the winter, neither on a sabbath:  (21)  for then shall be great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever shall be.  (22)  And except those days had been shortened, no flesh would have been saved: but for the elect's(bride) sake those days shall be shortened.

It is not until AFTER the bride has witnessed the abomination of desolation being set up and AFTER the bride endures the "great tribulation" that Jesus promises to come in the clouds to call His elect bride home:

Matthew 24:29-31  But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:  (30)  and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man(bridegroom) coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.  (31)  And he(bridegroom) shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect(bride) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:24-27  But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,  (25)  and the stars shall be falling from heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens shall be shaken.  (26)  And then shall they see the Son of man(bridegroom) coming in clouds with great power and glory.  (27)  And then shall he(bridegroom) send forth the angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Luke 21:25-28  And there shall be signs in sun and moon and stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, in perplexity for the roaring of the sea and the billows;  (26)  men fainting for fear, and for expectation of the things which are coming on the world: for the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.  (27)  And then shall they see the Son of man(bridegroom) coming in a cloud with power and great glory.  (28)  But when these things begin to come to pass, look up, and lift up your(bride) heads; because your(bride) redemption draweth nigh.

Jesus did warn His bride that there would be many in the church in these last days who think they're anointed with truth but are not. These false teachers will try to deceive the elect with silly ideas such as a pretrib secret rapture :

Matthew 24:24-27  For there shall arise false Christs(falsely anointed), and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.  (25)  Behold, I have told you beforehand.  (26)  If therefore they9false teachers) shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the wilderness; go not forth: Behold, he is in the inner chambers; believe it not.  (27)  For as the lightning cometh forth from the east, and is seen even unto the west; so shall be the coming of the Son of man.

There are many many other scriptures in this link that clearly prove there is only ONE resurrection/rapture AFTER the tribulation:

https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/

Edited October 18, 2020 by Moby

[FrankIeCip]

13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes. Rev 7:13-17

They came out of great tribulation. Not escaped. We clearly go through it. Good post. Thank you. 

[Guest]

Good luck with that! I know that I, for one, won't be going through the Tribulation but will be taken up in the Rapture of the Church. It's a good thing that even those who don't believe in the Rapture will go when it occurs. But, those who teach against the Rapture should be afraid of being accused of false teaching when they come before the Lord.

[DeighAnn]

And came one of the seven angels having the seven bowls being full of the seven plagues last and spoke with me saying Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb
 And he carried away me in Spirit to a mountain great and high and he showed me the city holy Jerusalem descending out of heaven from God


And the Spirit and the bride (New Jerusalem is what I see as being meant) say Come! And the {one} hearing let him say Come!  And the {one} thirsting let him come; the {one} desiring let him take water of life freely

In what verses do we go from being the "body of Christ" to becoming "the bride" to be married to Christ?



6  And I heard like {the} voice of a multitude great and like sound of waters many and like a sound of thunders mighty saying Hallelujah!  For has reigned Lord God of us the Almighty
7  We should rejoice and should exult and will give the glory to Him because has come the marriage of the Lamb and the bride of Him has made ready herself
8  And it was given to her that she should be clothed in fine linen bright pure For the fine linen the righteous acts of the saints is

9  And he says to me Write Blessed {are} those to the supper of the marriage of the Lamb having been invited.  And he says to me These the word TRUE of God are



 

 

[Biblican]

1 hour ago, Moby said:

If you declare that you are a part of the Bride of Christ then Jesus very clearly proves you will not be leaving earth in some "secret rapture" before the 7 years of tribulation!

The scriptures teach us that the first disciples were the bride of Christ that walked with Him over 1900 years ago:

John 3:29  He(Jesus) that hath the bride(Jesus' disciples) is the bridegroom(Jesus): but the friend of the bridegroom, that standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is made full.

We must remember that Jesus commissioned His disciples as the bride to go out and make more disciples of all nations as the bride which are some of us today who are living very close to the time of the end of the world:

Matthew 28:19-20  Go ye(disciples~bride) therefore, and make disciples(bride) of all the nations(some bride from all nations), baptizing them(bride) into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit:  (20)  teaching them(bride) to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you(bride) always, even unto the end of the world.

Now lets examine where Jesus as the bridegroom tells His disciples who are the bride when He will come for them as He teaches them on the mount of Olives:

Matthew 24:3-4  And as he sat on the mount of Olives, the disciples(bride) came unto him privately, saying, Tell us(bride), when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy(bridegroom) coming, and of the end of the world?  (4)  And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man lead you(bride) astray.

Jesus very clearly tells His disciples who are the bride that the bride will still be on the earth when the abomination of desolation is set up:

Matthew 24:15  When therefore ye(bride) see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him(bride) that readeth understand),

Jesus very clearly tells His disciples who are part of the bride that the bride will experience "great tribulation" which we know is the last half of on 7 years of tribulation:

Matthew 24:20-22  And pray ye(bride) that your(bride) flight be not in the winter, neither on a sabbath:  (21)  for then shall be great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever shall be.  (22)  And except those days had been shortened, no flesh would have been saved: but for the elect's(bride) sake those days shall be shortened.

It is not until AFTER the bride has witnessed the abomination of desolation being set up and AFTER the bride endures the "great tribulation" that Jesus promises to come in the clouds to call His elect bride home:

Matthew 24:29-31  But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:  (30)  and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man(bridegroom) coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.  (31)  And he(bridegroom) shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect(bride) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:24-27  But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,  (25)  and the stars shall be falling from heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens shall be shaken.  (26)  And then shall they see the Son of man(bridegroom) coming in clouds with great power and glory.  (27)  And then shall he(bridegroom) send forth the angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Luke 21:25-28  And there shall be signs in sun and moon and stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, in perplexity for the roaring of the sea and the billows;  (26)  men fainting for fear, and for expectation of the things which are coming on the world: for the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.  (27)  And then shall they see the Son of man(bridegroom) coming in a cloud with power and great glory.  (28)  But when these things begin to come to pass, look up, and lift up your(bride) heads; because your(bride) redemption draweth nigh.

Jesus did warn His bride that there would be many in the church in these last days who think they're anointed with truth but are not. These false teachers will try to deceive the elect with silly ideas such as a pretrib secret rapture :

Matthew 24:24-27  For there shall arise false Christs(falsely anointed), and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.  (25)  Behold, I have told you beforehand.  (26)  If therefore they9false teachers) shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the wilderness; go not forth: Behold, he is in the inner chambers; believe it not.  (27)  For as the lightning cometh forth from the east, and is seen even unto the west; so shall be the coming of the Son of man.

There are many many other scriptures in this link that clearly prove there is only ONE resurrection/rapture AFTER the tribulation:

https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/

I agree. But we are also told that the Philadelphians are to be kept from the hour. The 144,000 are sealed for their protection in Rev. 7. We see them briefly again in chapter nine. Then the two witnesses who are called churches/candlesticks (Rev. 11:4, 1:20) are called up to heaven before the seventh trumpet sounds in chapter 11. Then we see the 144,000 with Jesus and in heaven in the first part of chapter 14 before the slaughter that takes place at the end of that chapter. So this would be the only indication of a pre-trib rapture of a very small remnant of believers (by comparison to the amount of Christians on earth) who have not fallen into apostasy. The majority of those who have been left behind will be refined in the fires of affliction and can look forward to being gathered by the Lord after the tribulation, but before the final outpouring of God's wrath on the besat's empire. That's how I see it anyway. When Jesus gathers His elect after the tribulation that is also the first resurrection.

[Montana Marv]

Matt 24. 3,4 is not  accurate.  The disciples did not become part of the  Bride until after  Pentecost when they  received the  Holy  Spirit. This passage is  referring to Israel. 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Moby]

4 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Matt 24. 3,4 is not  accurate.  The disciples did not become part of the  Bride until after  Pentecost when they  received the  Holy  Spirit. This passage is  referring to Israel. 

In Christ

Montana Marv

John the Baptist declared the disciples who were with Jesus the bride in John chapter 3 which was years before the receiving of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost:

John 3:22-30  After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.  (23)  And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.  (24)  For John was not yet cast into prison.  (25)  There arose therefore a questioning on the part of John's disciples with a Jew about purifying.  (26)  And they came unto John, and said to him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond the Jordan, to whom thou hast borne witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.  (27)  John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it have been given him from heaven.  (28)  Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but, that I am sent before him.  (29)  He that hath the bride(His disciples) is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, that standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is made full.  (30)  He must increase, but I must decrease.

Neither John 3:22-30 or Mathew 24:3-4 are referring to the nation of Israel that as a whole crucified Jesus!

 

[The Light]

12 hours ago, Moby said:

If you declare that you are a part of the Bride of Christ then Jesus very clearly proves you will not be leaving earth in some "secret rapture" before the 7 years of tribulation!

The 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel. It is not about the Church.

Dan 9

²⁴ Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

I'm not sure why you can't grasp the concept that God is going to keep His promise to the CHOSEN PEOPLE the JEWS and the harvest will be greater than that of the Gentile.

If you are looking for the Church, you will find them in heaven in Revelation 5 which is also the reason that the Church is not mentioned again until Revelation 19. And if you understood the Jewish wedding you would understand that the marriage supper happens when the bridegroom comes for the bride.

According to the scriptures, there will be a pretribulation rapture. Your inability to understand that is not going to change the facts.

 

Quote

The scriptures teach us that the first disciples were the bride of Christ that walked with Him over 1900 years ago:

John 3:29  He(Jesus) that hath the bride(Jesus' disciples) is the bridegroom(Jesus): but the friend of the bridegroom, that standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is made full.

This is something that you dreamed up and has nothing to do with what the scripture says. It's no wonder you have no understanding when you just dream up what you want to dream up.

 

Quote

 

We must remember that Jesus commissioned His disciples as the bride to go out and make more disciples of all nations as the bride which are some of us today who are living very close to the time of the end of the world:

Matthew 28:19-20  Go ye(disciples~bride) therefore, and make disciples(bride) of all the nations(some bride from all nations), baptizing them(bride) into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit:  (20)  teaching them(bride) to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you(bride) always, even unto the end of the world.

No, Jesus commissioned His disciples as disciples.

 

Quote

 

Now lets examine where Jesus as the bridegroom tells His disciples who are the bride when He will come for them as He teaches them on the mount of Olives:

Matthew 24:3-4  And as he sat on the mount of Olives, the disciples(bride) came unto him privately, saying, Tell us(bride), when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy(bridegroom) coming, and of the end of the world?  (4)  And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man lead you(bride) astray.

 

You really have no clue about the Jewish wedding that much is apparent. Try reading what the Word says and quit dreaming thing up.

Quote

 

Jesus very clearly tells His disciples who are the bride that the bride will still be on the earth when the abomination of desolation is set up:

Matthew 24:15  When therefore ye(bride) see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him(bride) that readeth understand),

There are two brides. The Church is one and the Jews are the other. The Church will be raptured before the 70th week of Daniel. Then God will turn His attention to His Chosen people. That happens during the 70th week of Daniel. TWO BRIDES - TWO.

John 10

¹⁶ And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Do you think you are able to figure out who the sheep are that are not of this fold. Do you need a hint.

You really need to study this verse deeply.

Rom 11

²⁵ For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Quote

 

Jesus very clearly tells His disciples who are part of the bride that the bride will experience "great tribulation" which we know is the last half of on 7 years of tribulation:

Matthew 24:20-22  And pray ye(bride) that your(bride) flight be not in the winter, neither on a sabbath:  (21)  for then shall be great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever shall be.  (22)  And except those days had been shortened, no flesh would have been saved: but for the elect's(bride) sake those days shall be shortened.

Oh nice misdirect. So Jesus clearly tells his disciples who are part of the bride that the bride will experience great tribulation. Nice meaningless jargon.

Those that experience great tribulation are the seed of the woman, who are the Jews. ANYONE born of a Jewish woman is a Jew.

You should quit dreaming things up and just read what the scripture says.

 

Quote

 

It is not until AFTER the bride has witnessed the abomination of desolation being set up and AFTER the bride endures the "great tribulation" that Jesus promises to come in the clouds to call His elect bride home:

Matthew 24:29-31  But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:  (30)  and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man(bridegroom) coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.  (31)  And he(bridegroom) shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect(bride) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:24-27  But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,  (25)  and the stars shall be falling from heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens shall be shaken.  (26)  And then shall they see the Son of man(bridegroom) coming in clouds with great power and glory.  (27)  And then shall he(bridegroom) send forth the angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Luke 21:25-28  And there shall be signs in sun and moon and stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, in perplexity for the roaring of the sea and the billows;  (26)  men fainting for fear, and for expectation of the things which are coming on the world: for the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.  (27)  And then shall they see the Son of man(bridegroom) coming in a cloud with power and great glory.  (28)  But when these things begin to come to pass, look up, and lift up your(bride) heads; because your(bride) redemption draweth nigh.

Let me try.

Luke 21:25-28  And there shall be signs(ROAD) in sun(DAY STAR) and moon(CHEESE) and stars(SHOOTING); and upon the earth(WORLD) distress of nations(UNITED), in perplexity(DIVORCED) for the roaring(LION) of the sea and the billows;  (26)  men fainting(WOMEN) for fear, and for expectation of the things which are coming on the world: for the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.  (27)  And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.  (28)  But when these things begin to come to pass(THIS MUST MEAN WHEN YOU SEE THE END OF THE TRIBULATION, IT CAN'T POSSIBLY MEAN THAT WHEN THESE THINGS BEGIN TO COME TO PASS BECAUSE IF THAT WAS TRUE IT WOULD MEAN THERE IS A PRETRIBULATION RAPTURE, look up, and lift up your heads(NOGGINS); because your redemption draweth nigh.

Quote

 

Jesus did warn His bride that there would be many in the church in these last days who think they're anointed with truth but are not. These false teachers will try to deceive the elect with silly ideas such as a pretrib secret rapture :

Matthew 24:24-27  For there shall arise false Christs(falsely anointed), and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.  (25)  Behold, I have told you beforehand.  (26)  If therefore they9false teachers) shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the wilderness; go not forth: Behold, he is in the inner chambers; believe it not.  (27)  For as the lightning cometh forth from the east, and is seen even unto the west; so shall be the coming of the Son of man.

You would be much wiser to get ready for His coming and not lead the sheep astray. God is going to bring both the Gentile bride and the Jewish bride to the place that He has prepared. There will be a greater harvest of the Jews than the Gentiles.

 

Quote

 

There are many many other scriptures in this link that clearly prove there is only ONE resurrection/rapture AFTER the tribulation:

 

Better get ready. He is coming in an hour that you think not.

Edited October 19, 2020 by The Light

[Moby]

8 minutes ago, The Light said:

The 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel. It is not about the Church.

Dan 9

²⁴ Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

I'm not sure why you can't grasp the concept that God is going to keep His promise to the CHOSEN PEOPLE the JEWS and the harvest will be greater than that of the Gentile.

If you are looking for the Church, you will find them in heaven in Revelation 5 which is also the reason that the Church is not mentioned again until Revelation 19. And if you understood the Jewish wedding you would understand that the marriage supper happens when the bridegroom comes for the bride.

According to the scriptures, there will be a pretribulation rapture. Your inability to understand that is not going to change the facts.

 

This is something that you dreamed up and has nothing to do with what the scripture says. It's no wonder you have no understanding when you just dream up what you want to dream up.

 

No, Jesus commissioned His disciples as disciples.

 

You really have no clue about the Jewish wedding that much is apparent. Try reading what the Word says and dreaming thing up.

There are two brides. The Church is one and the Jews are the other. The Church will be raptured before the 70th week of Daniel. Then God will turn His attention to His Chosen people. That happens during the 70th week of Daniel. TWO BRIDES - TWO.

John 10

¹⁶ And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Do you think you are able to figure out who the sheep are that are not of this fold. Do you need a hint.

You really need to study this verse deeply.

Rom 11

²⁵ For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Oh nice misdirect. So Jesus clearly tells his disciples who are part of the bride that the bride will experience great tribulation. Nice meaningless jargon.

Those that experience great tribulation are the seed of the woman, who are the Jews. ANYONE born of a Jewish woman is a Jew.

You should quit dreaming things up and just read what the scripture says.

 

Let me try.

Luke 21:25-28  And there shall be signs(ROAD) in sun(DAY STAR) and moon(CHEESE) and stars(SHOOTING); and upon the earth(WORLD) distress of nations(UNITED), in perplexity(DIVORCED) for the roaring(LION) of the sea and the billows;  (26)  men fainting(WOMEN) for fear, and for expectation of the things which are coming on the world: for the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.  (27)  And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.  (28)  But when these things begin to come to pass(THIS MUST MEAN WHEN YOU SEE THE END OF THE TRIBULATION, IT CAN'T POSSIBLY MEAN THAT WHEN THESE THINGS BEGIN TO COME TO PASS BECAUSE IF THAT WAS TRUE IT WOULD MEAN THERE IS A PRETRIBULATION RAPTURE, look up, and lift up your heads(NOGGINS); because your redemption draweth nigh.

You would be much wiser to get ready for His coming and not lead the sheep astray. God is going to bring both the Gentile bride and the Jewish bride to the place that He has prepared. There will be a greater harvest of the Jews than the Gentiles.

 

Better get ready. He is coming in an hour that you think not.

Wow the more you talk the more confused you become!

Let's just examine this passage since you brought it up:

John 10:16  And other sheep(Gentiles who will believe in Jesus) I have(already chosen) , which are not of this fold(Jews who believe in Jesus): them also I must bring(the Gentiles that will be called to Jesus after Pentecost), and they shall hear my voice: and they shall become one flock, one shepherd(the believing Jews and the believing Gentiles who become ONE flock, ONE olive tree, ONE body of Christ, ONE church, One commonwealth of Israel, with ONE shepherd who is Christ).

Jesus will come for His ONE body of saints called the elect AFTER the tribulation:

Ephesians 1:3-4  Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ:  (4)  even as he chose(elect) us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love:

[Moby]

19 hours ago, Biblican said:

I agree. But we are also told that the Philadelphians are to be kept from the hour. The 144,000 are sealed for their protection in Rev. 7. We see them briefly again in chapter nine. Then the two witnesses who are called churches/candlesticks (Rev. 11:4, 1:20) are called up to heaven before the seventh trumpet sounds in chapter 11. Then we see the 144,000 with Jesus and in heaven in the first part of chapter 14 before the slaughter that takes place at the end of that chapter. So this would be the only indication of a pre-trib rapture of a very small remnant of believers (by comparison to the amount of Christians on earth) who have not fallen into apostasy. The majority of those who have been left behind will be refined in the fires of affliction and can look forward to being gathered by the Lord after the tribulation, but before the final outpouring of God's wrath on the besat's empire. That's how I see it anyway. When Jesus gathers His elect after the tribulation that is also the first resurrection.

Let's examine the scriptures to see what our Father has to say about this 1st seal for He has promised to reveal His secrets before they happen:

Amos 3:7  Surely the Lord Jehovah will do nothing, except he reveal his secret unto his servants the prophets.

The rider on the white horse is neither Christ nor antichrist but Christ manifesting in a modern day body of believers called the man-child:

Revelation 12:5-6  And she was delivered of a son, a man child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and unto his throne.  (6)  And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that there they may nourish her a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Please notice the manchild mentioned in verse 5 is called "they" in verse 6 clearly proving it is much more than one individual person who will be nourishing the woman(church) in their wilderness during the first 1260 days of tribulation.

Jesus came in the flesh and nourished 12 disciples along with more disciples for 3-1/2 years which began their tribulation; so too the man-child will come at the beginning of the first 3-1/2 years of the end time tribulation. Peter said the judgement must "first" begin with the house of God thus the reason it is the first seal:

1 Peter 4:17  For the time is come for judgment to begin at the house of God: and if it begin first at us, what shall be the end of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Jesus was the man-child who brought the unleavened bread of the truth confirming them with signs and wonders which made Israel and her leaders responsible to repent or be judged. History(His~story) is about to repeat on a much greater scale all over the world with the end time man-child and spiritual Israel who are the believing Jews and Gentiles as ONE olive tree:

John 9:39  And Jesus said, For judgment came I into this world, that they that see not may see; and that they that see may become blind.

Simeon prophesied that the man-child Jesus would cause both the reprobation of some physical Jews and the grafting in of believing Gentiles into the ONE olive tree called "all Israel":

Luke 2:34  and Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the falling and the rising of many in Israel; and for a sign which is spoken against;

Jesus was a "sign" of the coming end time man-child who will bring the same judgment. As it was with Jesus and Judaism, the man-child will be "spoken against" by the apostate "Christians". Moses as man-child brought the Law, which made the rebel Jews responsible and brought judgment:

Romans 4:15  for the law worketh wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression.

The "white horse" represents the mind of man using his body as a beast of burden to do his work just as a horse is harnessed as a beast of burden to do work:

Psalms 147:10  He delighteth not in the strength of the horse: He taketh no pleasure in the legs of a man.

To ride a "white horse" symbolizes the corporate manchilds completely harnessing the strength of their body or beast to do righteous work:

1 Corinthians 6:19-20  Or know ye not that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which ye have from God? and ye are not your own;  (20)  for ye were bought with a price: glorify God therefore in your body.

1 Corinthians 9:26-27  I therefore so run, as not uncertainly; so fight I, as not beating the air:  (27)  but I buffet my body, and bring it into bondage: lest by any means, after that I have preached to others, I myself should be rejected.

Overcomers ride white horses because their body is in submission to the spiritual man who submits to the Holy Spirit:

1 John 2:14  I have written unto you, fathers, because ye know him who is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the evil one.

Those who walk by faith do not give any authority to the mind of the flesh to rule but instead rule over it. This corporate man-child will be the 144,000 firstfruits who are chosen by God who are already in their wilderness purged of all leaven and ready to teach the woman (church) who flee as the tribulations starts:

Revelation 14:1-5  And I saw, and behold, the Lamb standing on the mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty and four thousand, having his name, and the name of his Father, written on their foreheads.  (2)  And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and the voice which I heard was as the voice of harpers harping with their harps:  (3)  and they sing as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four living creatures and the elders: and no man could learn the song save the hundred and forty and four thousand, even they that had been purchased out of the earth.  (4)  These are they that were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they that follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were purchased from among men, to be the firstfruits unto God and unto the Lamb.  (5)  And in their mouth was found no lie: they are without blemish.

Jesus came as the the former rain so now 2 day or 2000 years later the latter rain outpouring of the Spirit on the man-child will harness his body as a white horse:

Hosea 6:1-3  Come, and let us return unto Jehovah; for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.  (2)  After two days will he revive us: on the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live before him.  (3)  And let us know, let us follow on to know Jehovah: his going forth is sure as the morning; and he will come unto us as the rain, as the latter rain that watereth the earth.

So the first seal will be a corporate body of the righteous manchild but the rest of the seal judgments will be corporate bodies of evil men led of evil spirits riding upon the beast of their flesh to bring curses upon the earth. The difference between the man-child and the rest of the riders is that he is the one who looses these judgments like Jesus, Moses, Jeremiah, etc., did:

Revelation 6:3-8 And when he opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, Come. (4) And another [horse] came forth, a red horse: and to him that sat thereon it was given to take peace from the earth, and that they should slay one another: and there was given unto him a great sword. (5) And when he opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature saying, Come. And I saw, and behold, a black horse; and he that sat thereon had a balance in his hand. (6) And I heard as it were a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, A measure of wheat for a shilling, and three measures of barley for a shilling(famine); and the oil and the wine hurt thou not. (7) And when he opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, Come. (8) And I saw, and behold, a pale horse: and he that sat upon him, his name was Death; and Hades followed with him. And there was given unto them authority over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with famine, and with death, and by the wild beasts of the earth.

Jesus promises us authority over all the enemy:

Luke 10:19  Behold, I have given you authority to tread upon serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall in any wise hurt you.

Authority in this case is the right to use the power of the demons. The man-child will exercise "authority" and pass it on to the woman to bring the same "sword", "famine", and "death" to those who return evil for good.

Jeremiah was a type of the man-child who loosed the judgments to come:

Jeremiah 18:20-21 Shall evil be recompensed for good? for they have digged a pit for my soul. Remember how I stood before thee to speak good for them, to turn away thy wrath from them. (21) Therefore deliver up their children to the famine, and give them over to the power of the sword; and let their wives become childless, and widows; and let their men be slain of death, and their young men smitten of the sword in battle.

Moses and Samuel represent the same type of the man-child whose words and teachings to the woman will bring forth the same judgments:

Jeremiah 15:1-2  Then said Lord unto me, Though Moses and Samuel stood before me, yet my mind would not be toward this people: cast them out of my sight, and let them go forth. (2) And it shall come to pass, when they say unto thee, Whither shall we go forth? then thou shalt tell them, Thus saith Lord: Such as are for death, to death; and such as are for the sword, to the sword; and such as are for the famine, to the famine; and such as are for captivity, to captivity.

Jesus in His First-fruits man-child will send forth the disciples with the Word of God to bring the above judgments on the world:

Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold, a white horse, and he that sat thereon had a bow; and there was given unto him a crown: and he came forth conquering, and to conquer.

Notice that He has a bow but no arrows, meaning the arrows have been sent forth. "Apostle" means "one sent forth". As Jesus was from Judah and sent forth His twelve apostles and then the seventy disciples, so the man-child is spiritually a corporate body from Judah and will be the bow that sends forth these "arrows":

Zechariah 9:13A  For I have bent Judah for me, I have filled the bow with Ephraim;

Ephraim was called in Hebrew the "fullness of nations" which are the Gentile believers in Genesis 48:19 and represents the woman or Church of all nations:

Genesis 48:17-19  And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head.  (18)  And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father; for this is the first-born; put thy right hand upon his head.  (19)  And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it. He also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: howbeit his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.

As Jesus' disciples went forth to conquer the mind of the beast that ruled over the elect of God, so will the man-child's disciples.

Zechariah 9:13B & 15  and I will stir up thy sons, O Zion, against thy sons, O Greece(beast kingdom), and will make thee as the sword of a mighty man..... (15) Lord of hosts will defend them; and they shall devour.

Jesus' disciples, whom He sent out like arrows, were His "children of youth" for He has had many since then:

Psalms127:3 Lo, children are a heritage of Lord; [And] the fruit of the womb is [his] reward. (4) As arrows in the hand of a mighty man, So are the children of youth.

Jesus called His disciples "children":

John 13:33  Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say unto you.

John 21:5  Jesus therefore saith unto them, Children, have ye aught to eat? They answered him, No.

Isaiah's prophecy of the coming of Jesus as Emanuel He called His disciples His "children":

Isaiah 7:14  Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name lmmanuel.

Isaiah 8:16-18  Bind thou up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.  (17)  And I will wait for Jehovah, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him.  (18)  Behold, I and the children whom Jehovah hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from Jehovah of hosts, who dwelleth in mount Zion.

The worldwide man-child will send forth the disciple arrows to conquer the flesh, the beast, and the devil:

Psalms 127:5 Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them: They shall not be put to shame, When they speak with their enemies in the gate.

The disciple arrows will go forth to conquer the "enemies in the gate" of the kingdom with the spoken Word. Jesus, Who was the Light and called His disciples "sons of light":

John 12:36  While ye have the light, believe on the light, that ye may become sons of light. These things spake Jesus, and he departed and hid himself from them.

Jesus also said that the light would bring judgment when men denied it:

John.3:19 And this is the judgment, that the light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil.

The man-child and the disciple arrows will once more bring the light of truth, which will judge the world. This judgment will begin at the house of God and spread outwards. As it was with Jesus, those who reject the light will be reprobated while those who accept it will be the "sons of light". The white horse rider will bring truth, which is the foundation for all judgment. Remember that Moses, who was the white horse rider of his day, brought all the judgments on Egypt. As a type of the man-child he led all the other colored judgment horses of Revelation 6.