Book of Enoch?

[FrankIeCip]

7 minutes ago, Starise said:

I am convinced this was true concerning the depravity after Gen 6.

Maybe one reason the punishment for the watchers is far worse than ours. They have no hope of salvation ever.

In some ways the "mop up" operation has resulted in only a remnant of men saved. Wide is the way to destruction. While men are responsible for themselves, the watchers have done nothing but initiate, add to and compound the issues. 

I have to ask what was at the heart of it? Sometimes I think maybe because we were the "new kids on the block". Motivation- Jealousy. Jealousy of men who were put in to God's garden , Satan's jealousy of Yahweh. His desire to take the position of Yahweh.

And did they repent? It doesn't appear they did at all. Instead they simply continue to disrupt everything here on this earth as much as possible to this very  day.  

My largest question in all of this is why we were put in the midst of an already ongoing battle?  We had an uphill climb from the start.

We are here for His will, His purpose, His glory. We are here to magnify the Lord. Going from lost to found, from blind to sight. How Wonderful He is to us wretched sinners. His love, mercy, and grace are indescribable. To reconcile us to Himself. No words can describe that Love. 

[Jedi4Yahweh]

7 hours ago, Jayne said:

I don't have to.  That's not the point of the conversation.

I'll speak more slowly.  The Sadducees were trying to trap Jesus about the resurrection and prove him wrong.  That's clear in the first sentence.  So they make up a silly story about a woman with seven husbands.

Jesus tells them they are wrong about scripture.  What scripture?  Exodus 3:6 he tells them.

No.  It was a legitimate and fair question even though they were trying to test him because they did not believe in the resurrection.  Nevertheless it was a fair question.  If there is a resurrection who's wife would this women belong to if she had 7 separate legitimate husbands. This is a fair question and Y'shua gave them a truthful and fair answer: 

Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Exodus 3:6 does not even address the marriage issue regarding the resurrection that they were asking him. So where in scriptures does it state this if they were in err of not knowing the scriptures that Y'shua is referring to?  The answer is no where in our modern cannon other than the Book of Enoch.

7 hours ago, Jayne said:

Why would Jesus Christ - the WORD of God, himself - cite a book that lies about who God is, who angels are, who men of the Bible are, and lies about events of the Bible.

Have you actually READ 1 Enoch and compared it with what the Bible teaches?

I have - more than once.  The entire thing.

Why would the Apostle Jude quote the Book of Enoch word for word?  Why would Apostle Jude insert quotes from a false book of lies as scripture? If fact Jude says Enoch prophesied this, meaning it was inspired by the Holy Spirit by which you claim it to be a book of lies. 

Apostle Jude quotes Enoch word for word:

And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. [Jde 1:14-15 KJV]

Quoted directly from 1 Enoch 1:9

Behold, he comes with ten thousand saints to execute judgment upon all, and he will destroy all the ungodly and convict all flesh of all the deeds of their ungodliness that they have ungodly committed in an ungodly way, and of all the arrogant and hard words which sinners have spoken against him. [1 Enoch 1:9]

And yes I read and study the Book of Enoch often.  I have 3 different translations of the Book of 1 Enoch and do not find any contradictions.  I do find issues with the 2nd & 3rd Book of Enoch and do not believe they are legit.

Edited November 5, 2020 by Jedi4Yahweh

[Jedi4Yahweh]

oops double post

Edited November 5, 2020 by Jedi4Yahweh

[Dennis1209]

6 hours ago, Jayne said:

Nope.  Jesus is not telling the Sadducees that they are wrong about angels and marriage.  That is NOT what their question was about.

And he does cite the scripture from the Bible that they are missing if you read it in the full context and not just a piece of the conversation.  They do not know Exodus 3:6 - so says Jesus.

He is telling them that they are wrong about the resurrection of the dead.  The Sadducees believe once you were dead - that's it.  No afterlife and no resurrection.  Your body just rotted that that's it.  They were DEAD wrong because they did not know the scriptures about eternal life one place or the other.

He had to answer that stupid question about 7 brothers marrying the same woman and who would be her husband in heaven to prove it stupid.

Besides please read the whole thing in context.  AFTER Jesus proves their question invalid - he gives the main point of the conversation and cites what they do not know - "But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you,  "I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”

This conversation is not about angels and marriage.  It's about the resurrection from the dead and the Sadducees ignorance of it.

 

I like what Matthew Henry has to say on the subject:

(2.) They know not the scriptures, which decidedly affirm that there shall be a resurrection and a future state. The power of God, determined and engaged by his promise, is the foundation for faith to build upon. Now the scriptures speak plainly, that the soul is immortal, and there is another life after this; it is the scope both of the law and of the prophets, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and of the unjust, Acts 24:14, 15. Job knew it (Job 19:26), Ezekiel foresaw it (Eze. 37), and Daniel plainly foretold it, Dan. 12:2. Christ rose again according to the scriptures (1 Co. 15:3); and so shall we. Those therefore who deny it, either have not conversed with the Scriptures, or do not believe them, or do not take the true sense and meaning of them. Note, Ignorance of the scripture is the rise of abundance of mischief

Henry, M. (1994). Matthew Henry’s commentary on the whole Bible: complete and unabridged in one volume (p. 1729). Peabody: Hendrickson.

[Dennis1209]

6 hours ago, Starise said:

My interest in the book was intensified when I read that it was one of the books found along with the Dead Sea scrolls. Maybe that means nothing. I think it means something personally, even though I don't think the book should be a part of the scriptures.

When I read about how many translations of the Bible had glaring omissions...or additions made, I had to wonder if Enoch was simply one of those "uncomfortable" books to the reigning powers at the time, meaning they went to no great efforts to make it as visible as other references and writings. I had always been taught the book was totally useless before I ever read the first page.

I had little regard for it until more recently when I was attempting to answer some unanswered questions I had in addition to wondering why someone wouldn't want us to know about it. That makes me want to know all the more. 

The deeper question for me was relevance to mankind in general. How does this book or similar books further our spiritual understanding of the conditions that fostered our present world? How is it applicable to us now? Maybe that answer is different for different people. Is it all true beyond any doubt? Is some of it true? Then how much is true and which parts of it are true?

I don't think it can be denied there is some important relevance to our understanding of the "watchers". 

My thinking analytical side says that it sounds like the plot for the next Harry Potter film or similar. Not something that could possibly really happen. This is mainly because I have been conditioned to think that only physical beings of like kind can reproduce. Why did God mention that each kind produced after its own in creation? Was there another possible alternative that wasn't of God? 

The spiritual beings mentioned elsewhere in the Bible are sometimes described as what we here on earth would think of as very very odd. So I'm open to the very strong possibility that in some cases certain things can "cross over" to an extent or be something we have never seen before. This is all still a stretch for my analytical reasoning side to accept. 

I believe we can confirm fallen angels as eternal beings and as having been closest to creation as it happened were privy to some of that process. 

Concerning the angelic mixing with humans at the physical level which is strongly suggested in the accepted Bible, this doesn't appear to have been a  manipulation .

If you read the text at face value it simply says they took human women for wives. This would mean they had the ability to do "that". This goes against the idea that they neither married nor were given in marriage. Why would God equip a being sexually if they were not intended to have sex? How did they do "that"???? The only explanation I can come up with is some kind of manipulation, however this is not mentioned in the text.

The fact that there were giants as a result seems to indicate angels are enough like humans to mate with them but the genetics was off enough to produce these unusually tall beings that apparently had little use for any kind of morality. 

Enoch and similar books are the only places that infer demons were the souls of these offspring. It isn't mentioned anywhere in the Bible. So to believe a lot of this we need to rely on it and a few other shards of information heavily to make a case for it. If someone came to us today with a tale like this there are more than a few who might think they were out in the desert sampling the peyote. 

Since another common story regarding these texts is  fallen angels came down and shared knowledge with men they would have never known otherwise, Enoch might be something we really weren't intended to see for lack of understanding it. The book appears to mainly have been directed at or for the watchers.

 

Some translations of the Bible have already incorporated and updated what was found in the Dead Sea scrolls, filling in some scriptural voids. 

It is believed by many that the Essenes were the ones that preserved their sacred scrolls before they got ransacked. Some believe John the Baptist was associated with the Essenes. 

At he very minimum: What was preserved and hidden for safe keeping, was what they believed and read before and during when Christ walked this earth. 

Because of the finding of the Dead Sea Scrolls; not that we need it, but it further verifies our Bible translations are correct from the limited material and texts they originally used. 

I find it a bit interesting when they were found. Just a couple years before Israel became a nation in just one day [May 14, 1948]. Coincidence??

Edited November 5, 2020 by Dennis1209

[Dennis1209]

5 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

BUT GOD..  Think about it. 1947, Qumran. 1948 Israel. No coincidence that.

Funny I just made a comment on that before I read your post.

[Dennis1209]

4 hours ago, Starise said:

I am convinced this was true concerning the depravity after Gen 6.

Maybe one reason the punishment for the watchers is far worse than ours. They have no hope of salvation ever.

In some ways the "mop up" operation has resulted in only a remnant of men saved. Wide is the way to destruction. While men are responsible for themselves, the watchers have done nothing but initiate, add to and compound the issues. 

I have to ask what was at the heart of it? Sometimes I think maybe because we were the "new kids on the block". Motivation- Jealousy. Jealousy of men who were put in to God's garden , Satan's jealousy of Yahweh. His desire to take the position of Yahweh.

And did they repent? It doesn't appear they did at all. Instead they simply continue to disrupt everything here on this earth as much as possible to this very  day.  

My largest question in all of this is why we were put in the midst of an already ongoing battle?  We had an uphill climb from the start.

I'm not going into much detail and quote this and that but, just use some secular common sense and a bit of logic, and this "evolution" makes sense to me. I'd call it forbidden knowledge.

The smelting and refining of rock to produce metal and weapons. Did someone get up one morning and decide to build a fire hot enough to melt rock and refine the metal content. No; it had to have been taught and learned.

What about the brain surgeries performed by the ancient Egyptians; the massive monolithes globally; the potions and drugs they concocted concerning the spiritual realm. Did Mr. Knuckle Dragger get up one morning and decide; let's mix these plants with these roots and have a sorcery party. No, it was taught.

φαρμακεία pharmakeía, far-mak-i'-ah - from G5332; medication ("pharmacy"), i.e. (by extension) magic (literally or figuratively):—sorcery, witchcraft.

Did Ms. Hunch Back bridezilla one day decide to start wearing lipstick, paint and adorn her eyes to be more seductive, look into her highly polished mirror and say, "this should make Mister Dragger look my way". Then concoct a seductive perfume on her own. No, it had to be taught. 

The Great Pyramid of Giza and many other global ancient structures scream advanced mathematics and Pi. Their precise geographical location, alignments, construction, precise fit, design and materials; were not a product of trial and error. It had to have been taught by someone(s) I reason. 

[BlessedCreator]

One verse in Jude quotes Enoch the prophet. Just because the book of Enoch may have quoted Enoch the prophet as well, likely to make the book seem more legitimate, does not actually make it inspired. You have to look at the work as a whole and when you do that you see that there are things contrary to what we already know are the inspired words of God.

[HAZARD]

 

GENESIS  5:  24, And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

 There are only two men in the entire Bible who fit this plain revelation. They are Enoch and Elijah. That Elijah will be one of them is clear from Mal. 4:4-5. Some thing John the Baptist fulfilled this passage because of what is said of him in Matt. 11:14, but he was never Elijah in person, as John himself testified (John1:19-23).

Both John and Christ were truthful. When John said that he was not Elijah he meant that he was not Elijah in person, for he could not have been the natural son of Tishbit in the days of Ahab and also the natural son of Zachariah and Elizabeth as recorded in Luke 1. All Christ had in mind in Matt. 11:14 was that John was the one who was to come in the "SPIRIT AND POWER OF ELIAS" as in Luke 1:17. Mal. 3:2-6, 13-17; 4:1-6 have reference to the second advent of Christ because they speak of judgment and tribulation and the days of the Lord, and not of grace as in John's day. Thus it is clear that Elijah will be one of the two witnesses who will withstand Antichrist as he did Jezebel and Ahab of old.

Enoch will be the other witness. It is clear that Enoch and Elijah are the only two who have not tasted death; that is, they have not died their appointed death on Earth. This they must undergo as have all others (Gen. 5:21-24; Heb.11:5; 2 kings 2).Both Enoch and Elijah were prophets of judgment (Jude 14, 15; 1 Kings 17-18)

We know that Elijah was translated to Heaven and is now one of the two olive trees and two candle sticks which stand before God. It is not very reasonable to believe that since Enoch is the only other man translated and thus did not see death during his lifetime on Earth, that such was for a definite purpose; that is to be the other witness.  That both of these men will come back and die their appointed deaths at the hands of the Antichrist is not only incredible but is entirely logical. Some argue that since Enoch was translated he should not see death at all but these words are not found in the passage in Hebrews 11:5. What is seaid of Enoch in this verse coulc also be said of Elijah and yet we know that he is to come back and die according to Hebrews 9:27.

Enoch lived a natural life under the laws of degeneration and was subject to the law of death. He could not possibly escape such law unless he should live at the  time of the rapture, when the mystery of men being translated without seeing death will be fulfilled (1 Cor. 15:51-58).

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, BlessedCreator said:

One verse in Jude quotes Enoch the prophet. Just because the book of Enoch may have quoted Enoch the prophet as well, likely to make the book seem more legitimate, does not actually make it inspired. You have to look at the work as a whole and when you do that you see that there are things contrary to what we already know are the inspired words of God.

Actually it's two verses in Jude, one verse in 2 Peter, and Jesus quotes it in Matthew, does that count?  The 66 books of the Protestant Bible didn't come together until the Reformation.  Before that, we were all using the books the Roman Catholic Church determined were inspired in about 405 AD plus the Apocrypha. 

Source: Bible Timeline