why do Islamists hate the west?

[Guest shiloh357]

Yeah Eadora, there are two sides, there is your historical revisionist side, and there is the true history of the region. It just depends on what you want to believe.

Quote Shiloh 357

The claim that they inhabited the Land for generations is a myth, and is unsupported by genuine history.

And

There was no Palestinian people living for generations as so many history revisionists claim.

And

No Arabs were displaced, since the Land being settled was uninhabited.

And

Palestine was under the rule of the Turkish Ottoman Empire.

That does not mean that there was no entity Palestine. It only means that they were occupied. Like now. The Turks recognized it as an entiy.

No it was not "occupied" in the strictest military sense. Palestine was a region not a nation. There has never been a "Palestinian" Arab people before 1964. It was then that the term "Palestinian" came into use for the Arabs living West of the Jordan. Prior to the 1960's, "Palestinian" was a term that referred to the Jews living in the region, pre-Israel. The term "occupation" speaks of a a military victory of one sovereign nation over another sovereign. The Ottomans were not "occupying" Arab land, much less "Palestinian land" in the strictest sense.

Furthermore, we do not have recorded in history a worldwide Arab outcry that the Ottomans, the Druzes, Greeks Circassians, Algerians, Tartars, Bosnians, Kurds and even Jews, etc. were "occupying" Palestinian land. We do not hear any whining from the Arabs that they were displaced by any of these subjects of the Ottoman empire. There simply was not a majority living there.

In addition to that, one only needs to read the diary of Mark Twain who spoke of the barrenness of the land, devoid life, and any significant populations save for the coastal cities. Mark Twain was soundly unimpressed by what he saw when he travelled in the Holy Land. He spoke of travelling for miles without seeing a single living soul. It kind of contradicts the the Palestinian side of the story which seems to picture Palestine as a bustling Arab Metropolis suddenly pushed aside by a bunch of skinny, starved Jews. One only needs to peruse the historical documents of the time period to get the truth.

Here are some pictures of the Holy Land under Ottoman rule. It is quite desolate, and not at all the modern 21st century nation that Israel has transformed part of it into. First Photos of the Holy Land

I

believe it was Golda Meir who first played the Denial Card.

Well that is one way to deal with the problem.

Palestinians?? What Palestinians???

[dgolvach]

Eadora....with respect, I can tell that you have a peaceful heart. The only thing I can say is that the 'greater" Muslim community needs to do a better job of getting their message out. Dot coms and orgs are not going to cut it. We need to see massave protests in the Arab streets and here in the Western Muslim communities against radical Islam. It needs to find its way into the mainstream news. I am sure that most Muslims do not particularly want this conflict but spend just a little time on Arab TV or ours for that matter. All I ever see is US flag burnings and down with America chants. Of course I can find websites that have a west friendly Muslim voice( or anything else for that matter) but the voice needs to get louder. Much louder. Neither left or right leaning news broadcasts have reported any major pro-American sentiment lately.

I will sort through your links in the morning but for now, I must bid you a good night.

God Bless

Dan

[Guest shiloh357]

The only thing I can say is that the 'greater" Muslim community needs to do a better job of getting their message out. Dot coms and orgs are not going to cut it.

Precisely... If they are against terror, let them prove it by their actions. When the "peaceful" Muslims start dismantling Hamas, and bringing that and similar groups to justice all over the world, then maybe we have something to talk about. Until then... talk is cheap, so are websites.

[amor]

But its just easier for you  to blame the Jews, isn't amor?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's odd that you continually insinuate that I'm am a racist and an anti-semite, when it is you who is continually pushing old nonesense that you can pick on one sociocultural group and blame them for the wrongs of the world. It might make it easier for you to believe that all the world ills come from "arabs" and "muslims", although as I have pointed outon the thread where you class india as a Muslim/Arab statean you seem to have little awareness of what either is. This is simplistic racist nonesense and in reality no different from the anti-jewish line spewed out by some many right -winger bogots in the 1920's and 1930's.

I would at some time like an apology for your insinuations that I'm an anti-semite, but I fear at the moment that is unlikely to happen. However I'd appreciate it even more if you'd just occasionally question the simplistic propoganda you seem so happy to push and perhaps to see that in the mess of the Israel Palestine conflict both sides have an aweful lot to repent for and both sides also have reasonable arguements; if you can't do thaqt at least accept that as neither the Isrealis can be driven into the see nor the Palestinians driven East of the Jordan, peace will not in practical terms come to the region till there is a just an equitable two states solution.

[Guest shiloh357]

if you can't do thaqt at least accept that as neither the Isrealis can be driven into the see nor the Palestinians driven East of the Jordan, peace will not in practical terms come to the region till there is a just an equitable two states solution.

One of the problems with people like you, is that you completely ignore the plain statements of the Palestinian leadership themselves who see things like the disengagement as just another step in their eventual conquering of Israel.

The Palestinians don't WANT a two-state solution. It is only short-sighted, uninformed people who seem to think that a two-states is the solution. In 1948, it was the Jews who voted for a two-state solution and the Arabs that voted against it. If they wanted a two state solution, why did they instigate wars for the express purpose of annihilating Israel? They don't want to live side by side with Israel, and will never be satisfied until Israel is destroyed.

Furthermore, Israel is not trying to push the Palestinians into East Jordan. That is just nonsense. Israel has tried to live in peace with them, and all they get is bloodshed in return.

[amor]

Furthermore, Israel is not trying to push the Palestinians into East Jordan.  That is just nonsense.  Israel has tried to live in peace with them, and all they get is bloodshed in return.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I didn't suggest that the Israeli state calls for this but extremist Israeli groups do. I found these people through one simple "Google"

[amor]

They don't want to live side by side with Israel, and will never be satisfied until Israel is destroyed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You do it again you see, who are" they". The millions of individual Palestinians are to you just one mass, no conception of the idea of a very varied community made up of by and large rational people, who are as cappable of making compromises as anyone else. creating "strawmen" may make it easier to push your arguments, but is neither sensible or just.

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE Furthermore, Israel is not trying to push the Palestinians into East Jordan.

[dgolvach]

If there is a 2 nation solution, what makes anyone think that the peaceful Muslims are going to be calling the shots? When have they ever? Their peaceful. Peaceful folks don't intimidate folks who are perfectly willing to get violent. It has never been difficult for a minority of hell bent zealots to get their way if they are determined. I would think that most Germans in the 30s did not want to start WW2 and murder 6 million Jews. Once Hitler and co. had just enough power, they were able to strongarm the rest of the country. Its been this way with the Palestinians for years. It dosen't matter if even the vast majority of Palestinians want a true and lasting peace. Until there is absolute proof that the fringe element of Islam (Islamonuts) has been dismantled, Israel is asking for trouble by dealing with them at all. The peaceful Palestinians need to make a choice between being passive with the Islamonuts (who don't show Israel on their children's school maps) or rounding them up and joining with the Israeli Government to put and end to the terrorist mind-set. There will be no good landscape for peace until the Palestinians rebuke terrorism in a way that is undeniable.

Dan

[Eadora]

..... The only thing I can say is that the 'greater" Muslim community needs to do a better job of getting their message out. Dot coms and orgs are not going to cut it. We need to see massave protests in the Arab streets and here in the Western Muslim communities against radical Islam.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yoh dgolvach

I hear Ya! - I could not agree more!

We need to see the average Moslem who hopes and prays for peace to become more proactive in voicing their opposition to Terrorism.

Not nearly enough is being done!

Further:

I would also like to see demonstrations in the street throughout the whole world, including right here in