Does Understanding the Magnitude of {DNA} in Its Entirety Prove "Intelligent Design?"

[Guest kingdombrat]

36 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

Yeah, that's what Aardsma's virtual history idea is about.    Why not just accept the evidence for what it is?

I do accept it as God tells it.   We have a better idea at aging the Earth we are living on than the Universe we only know a glimpse of.   And we don't know where God matured them to be.   And to say [Science] claims without a firm point in time from God when He thinks in terms of Creation, is senseless to compare.   Any number beyond 10,000 can be arguable.   And it doesn't prove the state of the Universe.   

36 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

Yes.   Without the ability to know good and evil, he was incapable of understanding.   Do you see how this poses a logical problem for the story in Genesis as a literal history?

Soul had no part of decision making with Adam and he knew it was warned against doing, but when it becomes relative after the decisions lead to sin or actions, they will soon be in regret.    Ultimately, the Soul is where God lives in us.   

36 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

If we can insert a non-scriptural miracle at any point to clear up problems with a particular interpretation of Genesis, then anything goes.

What's the "Miracle," to the One who created what a Miracle consists of?

36 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

Based on a number of suboptimal parts in humans, we are not yet "mature" if perfection is the standard.   But we are "good" in the sense that we function pretty well in our place here.

Such as?

[The Barbarian]

1 hour ago, kingdombrat said:

I do accept it as God tells it. 

God doesn't tell us much about it.  He's talking about His nature, our nature, and how we relate to Him and Him to us.

Lots of other things, he left up to us to figure out.

1 hour ago, kingdombrat said:

What's the "Miracle," to the One who created what a Miracle consists of?

A non-scriptural miracle is one that isn't documented.   And we shouldn't be imagining them to make our ideas work.

Based on a number of suboptimal parts in humans, we are not yet "mature" if perfection is the standard.   But we are "good" in the sense that we function pretty well in our place here.

1 hour ago, kingdombrat said:

Such as?

Lower backs, wrists, feet, among others.

 

[teddyv]

9 hours ago, kingdombrat said:

Such as?

Well, there is the sewer system running right through a recreational area.

[Omegaman 3.0]

DNA does not PROVE anything. Peoples' threshold for what constitutes proof, is variable. What inderstanding DNA does do, is provide ample evidence for reaonable people to conclude:

"Yeah, it does have the earmarks of design. Books have information. The information is stored in language in the form of words. The pages are manufactured from paper, made from wood, bound together with various materials, and if we found a book in the desert, we would probably conclude that somewhere in the past, there was an intelligent force behind it all.

DNA is far more complex that that book, so yes, DNA might also have an intelligent designer.

My thought are more well developed on this here:

 

[Guest kingdombrat]

19 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

God doesn't tell us much about it.  He's talking about His nature, our nature, and how we relate to Him and Him to us.

He's doing much more than you suggest.   Those verses are clear that what constitutes as a DAY can be defined, God created on "one day" humanity, and the different Species by the same thought in materials used [Job 38-42].   In another verse, he tells us how we are able to view his Creation because He did it at the point of maturing [Genesis 2].   He is the process and made the original on that {Day}.   So He is not giving us wiggle room to toss in a secondary process.   He knew the process and began one third into the progression.

19 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

Lots of other things, he left up to us to figure out.

He does allow us to be imaginative.   But He gave enough solid evidence we don't lead off to an unnecessary path to the opposite of what He is revealing.

19 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

A non-scriptural miracle is one that isn't documented.   And we shouldn't be imagining them to make our ideas work.

A Miracle and how God Created the Beginning are one and the [same thing].  Until that reasons from within you , you will be willing to second guess the intent meaning here for some time to come.

19 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

Lower backs, wrists, feet, among others.

 

Maybe that was God's intent for these specific areas that allow multiple angles in variance to how we move and be physically active.

[Guest kingdombrat]

11 hours ago, teddyv said:

Well, there is the sewer system running right through a recreational area.

hahaha

Some of the biggest laughs I've ever experienced have come from improbable engineering [schematics].

[The Barbarian]

On 1/3/2021 at 11:19 AM, kingdombrat said:

He's doing much more than you suggest.   Those verses are clear that what constitutes as a DAY can be defined, God created on "one day" humanity, and the different Species by the same thought in materials used [Job 38-42]. 

If that were so, all reasonably intelligent Christians would agree.   And they don't.

Regarding suboptimal structures in humans:

Lower backs, wrists, feet, among others.

On 1/3/2021 at 11:19 AM, kingdombrat said:

Maybe that was God's intent for these specific areas that allow multiple angles in variance to how we move and be physically active.

If so, He surely would have made them more capable for this.   Wrists, for example are constructed in a way that makes physical activity with multiple angles a continuing hazard.    The radial nerve goes though the "carpal tunnel" with the carpal bones over the top and a band of tough connective tissue underneath, enclosing the tunnel.   The tendons operating your hand run through the same tunnel.   A combination of angle, force, and repetition will make the area inflamed, entrapping the nerve, resulting in pain, weakness, and tingling that can only (sometimes) be reversed by prolonged rest and medication over months of time.   Some people never recover.  If the radial nerve were not in that tunnel, it would not be a problem.   In most animals, this is not an issue, but for humans with hands that are almost always active, it's a huge issue.

We can talk about the other suboptimal structures if you like.

 

[Guest kingdombrat]

17 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

If that were so, all reasonably intelligent Christians would agree.   And they don't.

Who said all Christians are able to [Reason] and posses a level of intelligence?   

17 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

If so, He surely would have made them more capable for this.   Wrists, for example are constructed in a way that makes physical activity with multiple angles a continuing hazard.    The radial nerve goes though the "carpal tunnel" with the carpal bones over the top and a band of tough connective tissue underneath, enclosing the tunnel.   The tendons operating your hand run through the same tunnel.   A combination of angle, force, and repetition will make the area inflamed, entrapping the nerve, resulting in pain, weakness, and tingling that can only (sometimes) be reversed by prolonged rest and medication over months of time.   Some people never recover.  If the radial nerve were not in that tunnel, it would not be a problem.   In most animals, this is not an issue, but for humans with hands that are almost always active, it's a huge issue.

We can talk about the other suboptimal structures if you like.

 

For keyboard pound(ers), painters/writers and manual machine equipment requiring continued movement is normally why we see carpel tunnel.   It's not likely if you're not using certain motions you will develop carpel tunnel.

 

The same can be said about most [joint related] areas.

 

But to reverse it, until you develop carpel, being able to use those range of motions allows you to advance in abilities and skill.   And carpel tunnel can be worked with allowing use of those range of movements again.

 

So it's 50/50 if they're not fully developed [vs] they are perfect as is (they are the best tools we have for some applications).

[Uber Genius]

On 12/28/2020 at 10:17 PM, kingdombrat said:

Deoxyribonucleic acid is a molecule composed of two polynucleotide chains that coil around each other to form a double helix carrying genetic instructions for the development, functioning, growth and reproduction of all known organisms and many viruses.

 

The DNA of a single cell contains so much information that if it were represented in printed words, simply listing the first letter of each base would require over 1.5 million pages of text! If laid end-to-end, the DNA in a single human cell measures 3 1/3 feet or 1 meter.

3 Billion Base Pairs per Cell

Genomic DNA amount in diploid cell

Range~6 pg/cell

 

DNA explains in complete detail who and what each individual, whom ever existed and will ever exist, represents from their strengths to their weaknesses like the illnesses they could be prone to.   DNA explains [our] physical being in every medical definition.

 

Do we really buy the idealism that the most important key factor, outside God, from what we understand DNA to be completely, evolved from a gaseous pond of chemicals?   And then by a stroke of luck {Natural Selection} [Inherited Genetics] (pure Luck) "Accident" we went through phases of existence until the Process brought us to this point of reality.   And basically, after a series of events, DNA has been the driving force throughout Evolution?

 

Let me put DNA into a likeness from my own imagination to give you the picture of what I see/understand/believe explains DNA.   Since DNA is a program that contains enough information [counting every cell {including 2 genomes per cell}] explaining from each cell in a human body contains copy of the whole human DNA.  Which basically {equals to =} a whopping 4 Quintillion bytes, where one Quintillion is a billion of a billion.   In other words, Each cell is a [Computer Program] holding the Values of each human life and the information is too endless to basically read in a single lifetime.   And the basic idealism and concept of the programming within a single cell of DNA is similar to a home computer device and the programs inpute into them.   Thus naturally, one would think DNA has to be an inpute of programs that just happens to diagnose each existence down to a "specific" pattern of digits.   Clearly, this [screams] {Intelligent Design}, or am I missing something?

So to the question, "Does Understanding the Magnitude of {DNA} in Its Entirety Prove "Intelligent Design?" NO.

SORRY FOR THE FOLLOWING TECHNICAL GRAMMAR SPASM

But I'm being technical in my answer. If we are going to argue from scientific evidence to a particular inference we should use the proper language I think. The reason being that so much misrepresentation of science has found its way into the Evangelical vernacular that we should be careful to accurately explain premises and arguments (statements like "it is only a theory" conflating the meaning in an non-technical text meaning hypothesis, and in a technical scientific context meaning not a hypothesis but rather proven hundreds of times and meeting a very high standard of scientific knowledge).

Similarly proof or to prove something in court means something completely different in science and different still in philosophy. 

So DNA complexity and specification of information is such a great "evidence" in support of the premise that many things in our world exhibit the features of complexity, tight specification, and function as information. Further these things are best explained as either a function of chance or necessity or design. They are not necessity or chance therefore they are design. 

So DNA is evidence in support of a premise that in turn supports a design argument. Or DNA supports an abductive inference (argument to the best explanation) pointing to an intelligent designer.

Once again, with the internet producing such a rich trove of infidels who will jump on technical inaccuracies in order to lead the conversation away from its enormous persuasive force, why not poison the wells to such childish attempts? 

[Uber Genius]

On 1/2/2021 at 2:20 PM, kingdombrat said:

And we don't know where God matured them to be. 

Is this concept associated with the concept introduced by Henry Morris known as, "The appearance of age?"

If so then God is fudging the evidence to give the appearance of age

and from Romans 1:19 -20, "For what can be known about God is plain to them (non-believers), because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things hat have been made. So they (non-believers) are without excuse.

So on one hand you would argue God has falsified the record of creation with the appearance of age (if that is accurately what your reference to "God maturing," represents.

on the other hand the Apostle Paul is giving a cosmological arguments and perhaps a teleological one that creation serves as evidence of God!

But God lied about the evidence!

he faked it on the appearance of age inference!

Mr. Morris unwittingly gave atheists a reason to doubt God's veracity, or the Bible's veracity, or Paul's, pick one, or two, or all three!