Is there justification for adding anything to the discussion of end times besides what the bible tell us.?

[Riverwalker]

28 minutes ago, Josheb said:

????? 

At age twelve even the teachers were amazed at his knowledge and understanding (Lk. 2)

His first temptation was to turn stones into bread. Could Jesus have done that or not? If you say "No," then that is a meaningless temptation; a temptation to do something that can't possibly be done.

His second temptation was to jump off the temple so angels would prevent what would otherwise be a lethal fall. Could Jesus make such a leap, or not? If you say "No," then, again, this is a meaningless temptation; a temptation to do something that can't possibly be done. 

 

Where'd you get the idea Jesus didn't possess "gifts" until after the wilderness experience?

 

Do you have any room for the idea that what are for us "gifts" are inherent abilities for a sinless guy who is fully God and fully human? 

Jesus did no miracle until he was filled with the Holy Spirit,  Luke 4:1 Said He went into the wilderness filled with the Spirit and Luke 4:14 says

14 Then Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit to Galilee, and news of Him went out through all the surrounding region.

Jesus himself says he only does what he sees the Father do, and His power was that of the Holy Spirit, he came to be a man, and in the will of the Father and the power of the Holy Spirit, He ministered as a man, and died as a man, for man.

 

 

You mistakenly think that any gift that God has let you operate in is yours , it is not. It is God's gift, to someone else.  We are merely the water hose that carries it from its source to  where it belongs, with out either we are just an empty tube

[Starise]

39 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Am I being asked to assume all "these prophesies" were indeed fulfilled? Okay. 

This is what I'm getting from your comments so far and in other threads. 

 

39 minutes ago, Josheb said:

The text states 1) the man is a man, and not something other than human

True, however Jesus was also seen as a man. I think he will be a satanically controlled man. But yes, he will be a man. A very bad man.

39 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Paul's audience knew what was restraining him,

We should know too. It was the power of God. Some say the Spirit of God on the earth presently holds back complete evil.

39 minutes ago, Josheb said:

he was being restrained in the "now" of Paul's writing, which would be in the middle of the first century AD.

 

39 minutes ago, Josheb said:

so that in his time he will be revealed.  For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.  Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;  that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,  and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.

For the sake of the subject matter I won't quote the rest. Yes there have been powerful prideful rulers. None have provided power and signs and lying wonders to my knowledge as the above texts states. The "mystery of lawlessness is already at work". This is present tense. This mystery will effect or affect someone in the future. So we have something happening and something that will happen under the same "mystery". The passage you quoted lists future events.

I'm not sure which public figure you might be referring to as the individual which already has come to pass you think is that person? 

Edited January 10, 2021 by Starise

[Marathoner]

@Josheb is faithfully adhering to scripture. 

The last days commenced when the Lord rose from the dead and ascended to sit with our Father upon His throne, not thousands of years afterward. The testimony of Paul alone bears witness to this. 

As for "tribulation" this is the perseverance of the saints, my friends. Before the Word was made flesh God's people endured tribulation in this world; the Lord Himself tells us that He refines us like silver in the furnace and tests us like gold is tried.

For those familiar with archaic metallurgy this refers to a lengthy and painstaking process of withdrawing impurities (dross) from molten metal. The metallurgist (God is the Master Craftsman) is patient in order to arrive at the purest grade possible. 

Noah... Job... Abraham... the apostles... and yes, even the followers of the Lamb in this day and age endure suffering in this world. Are we to be spared from suffering or are we called upon to suffer as Christ suffered?

Paul and Barnabas encouraged the saints after departing from Derbe:

And after they had preached the gospel to that city and had made a good number of disciples, they returned to Lystra, to Iconium, and to Antioch, strengthening the souls of the disciples, encouraging them to continue in the faith, and saying, “It is through many tribulations that we must enter the kingdom of God.” (Acts 14:21-22 NASB)

I marvel at the bizarre interpretations and plethora of novel teachings which do nothing but obfuscate the words of God and sow confusion. I marvel even more over the vehemence of some who, in one breath pledge they believe the words of God while in the next prove they do not. It's terrible to witness.

[Starise]

10 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

@Josheb is faithfully adhering to scripture. 

The last days commenced when the Lord rose from the dead and ascended to sit with our Father upon His throne, not thousands of years afterward. The testimony of Paul alone bears witness to this. 

As for "tribulation" this is the perseverance of the saints, my friends. Before the Word was made flesh God's people endured tribulation in this world; the Lord Himself tells us that He refines us like silver in the furnace and tests us like gold is tried.

For those familiar with archaic metallurgy this refers to a lengthy and painstaking process of withdrawing impurities (dross) from molten metal. The metallurgist (God is the Master Craftsman) is patient in order to arrive at the purest grade possible. 

Noah... Job... Abraham... the apostles... and yes, even the followers of the Lamb in this day and age endure suffering in this world. Are we to be spared from suffering or are we called upon to suffer as Christ suffered?

Paul and Barnabas encouraged the saints after departing from Derbe:

And after they had preached the gospel to that city and had made a good number of disciples, they returned to Lystra, to Iconium, and to Antioch, strengthening the souls of the disciples, encouraging them to continue in the faith, and saying, “It is through many tribulations that we must enter the kingdom of God.” (Acts 14:21-22 NASB)

I marvel at the bizarre interpretations and plethora of novel teachings which do nothing but obfuscate the words of God and sow confusion. I marvel even more over the vehemence of some who, in one breath pledge they believe the words of God while in the next prove they do not. It's terrible to witness.

Yes I agree. Tribulation has always been with us.

I am referring to this person of lawlessness. No one has identified who it is if all of this has already happened? To be clear I never said anything about a "tribulation" that was Josheb who inferred it. I am not defending a "tribulation" I am looking for the explanation of a sequence. Thanks.

[Your closest friendnt]

9 hours ago, Riverwalker said:

Jesus did no miracle until he was filled with the Holy Spirit,  Luke 4:1 Said He went into the wilderness filled with the Spirit and Luke 4:14 says

14 Then Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit to Galilee, and news of Him went out through all the surrounding region.

Jesus himself says he only does what he sees the Father do, and His power was that of the Holy Spirit, he came to be a man, and in the will of the Father and the power of the Holy Spirit, He ministered as a man, and died as a man, for man.

 

 

You mistakenly think that any gift that God has let you operate in is yours , it is not. It is God's gift, to someone else.  We are merely the water hose that carries it from its source to  where it belongs, with out either we are just an empty 

Hello Riverwalker, in the  third paragraph of your post where you posted: 

"Jesus himself says he only does what he sees the Father do..."

Why Jesus would say that? 

Do you know the scriptures?

[DeighAnn]

20 hours ago, Josheb said:

No, that's not "the question" and the reason that is not the question is because that question is already answered by the text itself! 

Good. Then make sure verse 16 is included in future efforts to understand verse 17. Avoid the problem of proof-texting. It's real important with this chapter because Peter also reference Isaiah and David. Peter does this inherently and inescapably under the influence of the Holy Spirit at His outpouring at Pentecost. A whole bunch of prophesy is declared manifested. 

Commendable. Very Berean response. 
 

 

Appreciation is appreciated. 

But my joy is made more thorough when brothers and sisters find consensus with God's word correctly-rendered and not merely with each other. 

Do I have it correct that once a prophesy has been fulfilled that same type of event can never take place again?  

Have you run across any prophecies that have taken place in the past that are set to repeat?  

Is it stated in Joel s prophecy that it will never be used again? 

The reason I posted the whole thing was so the events taking place could clearly be seen, or so I thought. 

Do you believe that ALL of Joel took place then?  
 

[DeighAnn]

17 hours ago, Riverwalker said:

It is not temptation it is the hour of trial  and it will come upon the WHOLE Earth....no one on earth will thus be spared this tribulation

And not everyone on earth wants to be spared

[DeighAnn]

18 hours ago, Josheb said:

What happens when the teaching, "We are not yet living in the last days" is the proverbial "Brooklyn Bridge"? There are many people buying that teaching; they are not just tempted; they're buying. 

There are many people selling 'don't worry, you wont be here in the last days'

As one who had a very difficult time with, it helped me.  So I was passing on in an attempt to have someone see it from a different angle.  No some big huge teaching.  Didn't it come off that way?  No need to answer that.   

Posts taken all together,  Blistering.  
What a way to start my day.  

[DeighAnn]

20 hours ago, Josheb said:

Commendable. Very Berean response. 

Have no clue what this means.  Please don't tell me.  

[Starise]

11 hours ago, Josheb said:

????? Am I to understand you think the man of lawlessness is some sort of man that can live more than 2000 years? 

I am asking your opinion - who you think it "was" if he was already here? I think my request was simple enough. I never said anything about 2000 years. My take away on your comments is you think this man of lawlessness was already here. 

11 hours ago, Josheb said:

????? If he was living during the first century and was a man of whom the Thessalonians knew why would we be able to know who he was. 

The man in question puts himself on a god pedestal . If he was already here everyone would know who he was. It would be in all the history books. Yet I am not aware of any man who did great signs and wonders, who proclaimed himself to be god. The closest I can come to it is the pope. He doesn't qualify because he didn't do great signs and wonders nor has he claimed to be God. So you base your theory on the idea that the Thessalonians knew a person we don't know yet this person claimed to be God and did great signs and wonders? That WOULD have been recorded in historical records.

11 hours ago, Josheb said:

What is "It"?

I already told you what I thought "it" was. I thought I had made it clear this power "holding back" was the power of God. 

Lets revisit the text again-

 

 6 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

This is a fight of bad against good. The good powers are holding back the bad powers. I believe the good powers or the "it" is the spirit of God and Gods heavenly host. This is and will be a spiritual battle evidenced in the physical world. 

All countries have laws. The secret power of lawlessness  refers to  all of those secret organizations and societies who have plotted against laws for thousands of years and continue even now. These are all evil. Anything "secret" is occult in nature.The secret power is  our enemy ( if Christian). 

At some point "he" is taken out of the way cf v7.. This will be like removing a dam to a great lake. The spirit is the "dam" holding it back. WHY would the spirit holding the dam back be taken away? I think this is an act of GOD to let the true turds float to the top of the loo because right after that we read " And then the lawless one will be revealed"

The spirit of lawlessness has been around a long time. NEXT the target comes into full view. The devil incarnate. Or since you hold to the "man" idea. He will only be a man in the physical sense. He will be fully possessed by Satan.

This is a FUTURE event. No one yet has come along to meet the requirements. That person might be alive now but they haven't come to full power. 

This person controls all buying and selling. Only Rome has come close. They didn't do it for the entire world. The sophistication of technology now makes this a reality.

I am asking you how you come to the conclusions that this person of lawlessness has already been here and don't seem to know specifically who it was? If you know who it was, please do tell who you think it was. They must meet all requirements of scriptures to assure this is the " lawless one". 

 

 

Edited January 11, 2021 by Starise