The Law is NOT for Christians but all true Christian will exhibit the nature of the Holy Spirit which does not contradicts or go against the law.

[alaric_w]

For a christian, there are two natures within them (The spiritual nature and the flesh nature). If you operate in the flesh, you will always be conscious about the DOs and DONT'S which is the law. The flesh itself is capable of doing good which can be seen in the charity work of non-Christians. If you use the flesh (human-willpower, determination, human endurance and perseverance) to fight the sinful desires of the flesh, you will always end up losing. As written in the bible about the flesh is nothing good comes from it.

Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

But if a Christian operates in the spiritual nature which is the Holy Spirit, a Christian will not break any law even WITHOUT the conscious about the DOs and DONT'S which is the law. When Jesus said it is finished on the cross, he has put an end to the law to anyone who put his faith in Jesus and his finished work.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Jesus has set us free from the law so that we can have a new nature which is of the Holy Spirit.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. How to operate in the spirit?

According to the bible, it is simply to walk in the Spirit. Which is to be sensitive to the Holy Spirit and fill yourself with the love of God.

Galatians 5:16-18 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

[R. Hartono]

17 hours ago, alaric_w said:

For a christian, there are two natures within them (The spiritual nature and the flesh nature). If you operate in the flesh, you will always be conscious about the DOs and DONT'S which is the law. The flesh itself is capable of doing good which can be seen in the charity work of non-Christians. If you use the flesh (human-willpower, determination, human endurance and perseverance) to fight the sinful desires of the flesh, you will always end up losing. As written in the bible about the flesh is nothing good comes from it.

Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

But if a Christian operates in the spiritual nature which is the Holy Spirit, a Christian will not break any law even WITHOUT the conscious about the DOs and DONT'S which is the law. When Jesus said it is finished on the cross, he has put an end to the law to anyone who put his faith in Jesus and his finished work.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Jesus has set us free from the law so that we can have a new nature which is of the Holy Spirit.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. How to operate in the spirit?

According to the bible, it is simply to walk in the Spirit. Which is to be sensitive to the Holy Spirit and fill yourself with the love of God.

Galatians 5:16-18 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Hv u been baptized by Holy Spirit Pentecost style ?

[Completed Israelite]

On 1/12/2021 at 2:01 AM, alaric_w said:

For a christian, there are two natures within them (The spiritual nature and the flesh nature). If you operate in the flesh, you will always be conscious about the DOs and DONT'S which is the law. The flesh itself is capable of doing good which can be seen in the charity work of non-Christians. If you use the flesh (human-willpower, determination, human endurance and perseverance) to fight the sinful desires of the flesh, you will always end up losing. As written in the bible about the flesh is nothing good comes from it.

Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

But if a Christian operates in the spiritual nature which is the Holy Spirit, a Christian will not break any law even WITHOUT the conscious about the DOs and DONT'S which is the law. When Jesus said it is finished on the cross, he has put an end to the law to anyone who put his faith in Jesus and his finished work.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Jesus has set us free from the law so that we can have a new nature which is of the Holy Spirit.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. How to operate in the spirit?

According to the bible, it is simply to walk in the Spirit. Which is to be sensitive to the Holy Spirit and fill yourself with the love of God.

Galatians 5:16-18 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

See 2nd Peter, when HE warns deeply about Paul's letters, people twisting them and The Scriptures unto Thier own destruction, those who are "unlearned" that is.... unlearned in what?...The Scriptures...which Is Torah(and the prophets) there was no NT in the Church of Acts.

I dont have to pound you down with verses from Genisis to Revelation confirming this.

Any person truly seeking truth, and not believing they alredy found it....will most likely draw somewhat the same conclusion, no covenants "Go away" they stack upon one another like a pyramid, when the Mosaic covenant came in.. it did not overwrite the Abrahamic covenant(circumcision), or the Noahic covenant(the rainbow)...this is a false doctrine that's spread around Christanity for thousands of years ONLY in order to separate themselves from Judaisim.

In Jeremiah 31, we see plain as day one of the major signs of the New covenant, is to have Torah(the law/instruction) written on our Hearts, A covenant btw only made for Judah and Israel, didn't mention Gentiles at all..they must become Grafted in.. to partake in the covenant...

And of course "The Law" includes The Biblical Sabbath, Gods Feast days, and knowledge like "burn down Thier sacred trees" and don't go after the ways of the Gentiles,etc.. yea all these things are to be written upon the Heart thru Yeshua(Jesus), He is supposed to be The one who brought you to Gods Torah(instruction)...as you see more than once in revelation, "those who keep the commandments of God and have Testimony of Yeshua(Jesus)" 

Beliving Torah to be abolished, is the opposite of having it wrote on the Heart, and I ask how can they possibly be apart of the covenant where it's wrote on the Heart!?

Even more intense than when Moses delivered it from Mt. Sinai....even tho that's what was meant to be all along...you see the term "circumcise the heart" directly in Torah. 

All the prophets, point the reader back to Torah, read the very 1st psalm....and that includes Jesus Exspecially!.. He Taught Torah NON STOP, and never once spoke against it, as He truly is a Living Torah. 

He always corrected what was added to or taken away from Torah by man, bringing us back to The original Judaisim. Aka The Truth. 

He specifically taught, those who do and teach Torah, will be called great in the Kingdom and those who don't will be called the least or small...And not even a decorative tiddle or a Yod, would be taken away, Until Heaven and Earth Pass away! I mean it gets no more clear than that. 

People often,..when they think about Torah usually only think about the direct commandments, not realizing the creation, to Abraham, issac,jacob,Noah,Esau,Joseph etc. All that is apart of Torah and meant to be written on the Heart. 

And there's a major hint in Torah that there's much more than meets the eye... if I asked you....Who was Moses? Most people would say "he brought The Law."  But first and foremost Moses was a PROPHET!

As we see in the very back of Torah "never again in Israel has a PROPHET* arose like unto Moshe" 

Realizing him as actually a Prophet should expand your view of Torah MAJORLY. It's a major revelation saved for these last days. 

But you'll see the big Key is To "meditate therein this book of Torah day and night"-Torah... and shema(hear and do) And then David is telling the people the same thing for all the generations to come as well "psalm 1(and all through out Bible) saying Blessed is the man who Mediatates in Torah day and night, his leaf will not wither*(eternal life)

All the way to Yeshua Messiah, confirming the same message. 

Then you get to Paul's LETTERS, which Peter warned about in the NT. Those who are unstable or unlearned wrest and twist unto Thier own destruction. Need to understand Paul was literally writing letters #1. No capital S scripture, in Judaisim Paul's letters are exactly the same as Talmud, and other Rabbinical commentary.

And heavily misunderstood, bc ppl can't understand the Jewish mind, you'll see in The Talmud, the same phrases Paul uses, like Torah is death unto some and life unto others.-Talmud.

As Paul said He wldnt have known sin if it wasn't for Torah. As Torah brings the Knowledge of all sin. Yes even eating unclean beast is a sin....1st John 3.4 "for sin IS the breaking of Torah" drinking a few beers Is Not, having more than 1 wife Is not! Lol..it's Gods world we just living in it right haha...

God thru Moses commanded us to Listen to all that the One who God sends us like Moses, do all He says. 

He(Jesus) Taught Torah, and told all to not even THINK, He came to do away with Torah. 

In acts 15...where ppl think.....that they decided that Gentiles don't have to keep Torah....you need to take a very hard look at acts 15.21....it wasn't until that verse was stated, that the assembly of Jewish elders agreed. That verse is showing, that they fully expected the Gentiles to Learn the rest of Torah as they went into the Synagogue on Sabbath at Thier own pace. And gave them a small list(which didn't even include murder, or loving God etc.) To better fellowship with Jews.

See proverbs 6.23 the commandment is a LAMP and the Torah is a Light! Then refer back to the parable of the 5 foolish virgins who had no oil in Thier lamp. 

Does salvation come from Torah? No. Counted Rightoues by Faith, as Noah and Abraham, and the others were, but willingly sinning is a whole other story, once a man's sin becomes Known to Him(for ex. If you for sure know, that sacred/Christmas trees are pagan in Thier roots, and have nothing to do with the Bible, and you still choose to go on with that tradition, uve just went from sinning in ignorance, to rebellion!, and that sin then becomes firmly planted.....And we're are not allowed to Willingly break Torah/Sin....

Every commandment brings you closer to God brother.

 

Edited January 14, 2021 by Completed Israelite

[Tristen]

Hi Alaric,

You said, “But if a Christian operates in the spiritual nature which is the Holy Spirit, a Christian will not break any law even WITHOUT the conscious about the DOs and DONT'S which is the law”

I think your wording here is somewhat ambiguous.

The Law is an old covenant between God and the nation of Israel. A Saviour was required for humanity because it is not possible for us to keep the Law in our flesh.

Christians can not “break” the Law because we are not under the Law; i.e. not subject to the Law in any sense. There are many ritual tenets of the Law that Christians do not perform (e.g. animal sacrifices, Sabbaths and holy days, circumcision, dietary laws, ritual cleansing etc.) - because there is no Christian accountability to the Law whatsoever. The Law has absolutely no power or authority to judge or condemn a Christian. Christians relate to God through a completely different covenant (i.e. the “new covenant”).

Hebrew Christians are free from the Law because the New Covenant supersedes the Law. Gentiles were never under the Law.

Galatians 3:24-25 - Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Hebrews 8:13 - In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

 

[Logostician]

The Law never saved a single person.  It was only capable of convicting them with a sentence of death.  Jesus knew this when he gave the Law to Moses.  And yes, Jesus was there for that too.  Just like he created the universe.  He was there.  He's always been there.  Jesus gave us the Law to show us that we could not fulfill the will of God on our own, and needed him to have life.

Only the direct and personal salvation of Jesus Christ can give us life.  This is accomplished through faith.  I beleive the writing of the Law on the hearts of men addressed in Jer 31:33, Eze 11:19, 36:26, Heb 8:10,  is in fact the free gift of the indwelling Spirit of God received when we are saved by Jesus.  The Spirit will always direct us to Jesus, and the fulfillment of his will.  We should follow the moral portion of the Law.  The Spirit of God strengthens us to do this.  It is God's will that we live Godly, as Sons of God.  As for the ceremonial Law it is absolutely replaced by Jesus Christ himself.  Jesus fulfilled the moral portion of the Law by living it.  No other man has ever lived a life free of sin.

The ceremonial portion of the Law was also fulfilled by Jesus.  But in this case, it was rendered obsolete.  The temple was the center of ceremonial Law.  God willed it's destruction in 70 AD to put the focus entirely on Jesus.  An animal sacrifice today would be an abomination to God after the finished work of the cross and the perfect sacrifice of the Lamb of God.  Moral, Godly behavior will always be willed by God.  But ceremonial symbols for Jesus have been replaced by the Son of God himself.  He has shown himself to us.  And he is all we need.  He is the author and finisher of our faith.

[JohnD]

On 1/12/2021 at 1:01 AM, alaric_w said:

For a christian, there are two natures within them (The spiritual nature and the flesh nature). If you operate in the flesh, you will always be conscious about the DOs and DONT'S which is the law. The flesh itself is capable of doing good which can be seen in the charity work of non-Christians. If you use the flesh (human-willpower, determination, human endurance and perseverance) to fight the sinful desires of the flesh, you will always end up losing. As written in the bible about the flesh is nothing good comes from it.

Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

But if a Christian operates in the spiritual nature which is the Holy Spirit, a Christian will not break any law even WITHOUT the conscious about the DOs and DONT'S which is the law. When Jesus said it is finished on the cross, he has put an end to the law to anyone who put his faith in Jesus and his finished work.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Jesus has set us free from the law so that we can have a new nature which is of the Holy Spirit.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. How to operate in the spirit?

According to the bible, it is simply to walk in the Spirit. Which is to be sensitive to the Holy Spirit and fill yourself with the love of God.

Galatians 5:16-18 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Christians are people who believe in the genuine Jesus Christ.

Period.

We have the option (as never before) to show the Holy Spirit in our lives.

Or

We have the choice to be worldly, make mistakes, sin.

Our human nature which is at war with the Holy Spirit has not changed.

In 1 Corinthians 15 Paul mentions we will all be changed.

If we are already so radiant of the Holy Spirit in us,

changed from what to what?

I realize the passage is referring to mortal to immortal

but it also refers to incoruption from corruption.

Disclaimer:

The all things are become new / all old things are passed away clause 

is that we have (as never before) the Spirit filled option to choose good / God's way over

evil in every decision we make ← we still must choose and make choices.

And I hope and pray we all choose God's way / good over evil in all our choices.

We most likely won't. But I hope and pray we do. 

Grace is not a license to sin.

We are free from the Law to be able to evangelize more freely.

This plan of God is harvest mode.

Couldn't tell it from the worldliness of the believers...

1. Believe / Love Jesus

2. Love fellow believers

3. Disciple all nations

Edited January 14, 2021 by JohnD

[Don19]

49 minutes ago, Logostician said:

Only the direct and personal salvation of Jesus Christ can give us life.  This is accomplished through faith.  I beleive the writing of the Law on the hearts of men addressed in Jer 31:33, Eze 11:19, 36:26, Heb 8:10,  is in fact the free gift of the indwelling Spirit of God received when we are saved by Jesus.

 

You are correct! It's not any sort of writing of the moral law on the heart. The natural man already has a conscience for that (Rom 2:14-15), and the moral law is written on the heart of the natural man, which only shows him his sin. But the carnal mind is not subject to the law of God and cannot be, unlike the spiritual mind (Rom 8:7) - again, the moral law is not in view here when Paul wrote that. The "law of God" is the law of faith (Rom 3:27). We can keep the law of faith by resting in Him and believing the testimony of the Spirit, which is the earnest of our inheritance.

For example, when it is written in Eze 36:27:

And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

This is NOT referring to the moral law! Nor is it the Torah. We keep His judgments in that He has declared us righteous in Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is our good works and our righteousness. We walk in His statutes simply by believing Him.

 

[JohnD]

Galatians 3:24–25 (AV)
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Belief in Christ Jesus fulfills the intent of the Law

as Jesus fulfilled the Law itself and his righteousness

is imputed to all who believe him and love him.

[JohnD]

The Law itself is a kind of herald that the King of Kings is coming.

[JohnD]

Those who did not abandon the first covenant

for the second are like ones who held the King's

herald as the king rather than the actual King.