How do we respond to Jews who...

[apothanein kerdos]

Wow, it's like debating my cousins!

A. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).

B. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).

C. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)

D. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world -- on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

Likewise the Messiah is to die and be rejected, this is not just conveyed in Isaiah 53. In essence, what most Jews forget or try to manipulate is that there are two types of Messianic prophecies. Those of a suffering Messiah and others of a conquering Messiah. Which ones do we follow? Some Jewish theologians have tried to say the suffering Messiah is actually refering to Israel, but we shall get to that. Regardless, because of these two types of prophecies it is easily concluded that the Messiah will come twice. Once to suffer for humanity and secondly to redeem humantiy completely.

Jesus was not a prophet. Prophecy can only exist in Israel when the land is inhabited by a majority of world Jewry. During the time of Ezra (circa 300 BCE), when the majority of Jews refused to move from Babylon to Israel, prophecy ended upon the death of the last prophets -- Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi.

Jesus appeared on the scene approximately 350 years after prophecy had ended.

Where is this a Biblical principle? This is based off Jewish traditions that have failed them in the past. Regardless, the majority of Jews in the world lived in Judea (Israel) at the time Jesus lived.

The Messiah must be descended on his father's side from King David (see Genesis 49:10 and Isaiah 11:1). According to the Christian claim that Jesus was the product of a virgin birth, he had no father -- and thus could not have possibly fulfilled the messianic requirement of being descended on his father's side from King David!

He had a nice Jewish mother

The Messiah will lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance. The Torah states that all mitzvot remain binding forever, and anyone coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a false prophet. (Deut. 13:1-4)

He took people away from the tradition of the Torah and instilled the torah on the hearts of men.

Throughout the New Testament, Jesus contradicts the Torah and states that its commandments are no longer applicable. For example, John 9:14 records that Jesus made a paste in violation of Shabbat, which caused the Pharisees to say (verse 16), "He does not observe Shabbat!"

He violated the traditions and customs but upheld the spirit of the law.

The Christian idea of a virgin birth is derived from the verse in Isaiah 7:14 describing an "alma" as giving birth. The word "alma" has always meant a young woman, but Christian theologians came centuries later and translated it as "virgin." This accords Jesus' birth with the first century pagan idea of mortals being impregnated by gods.

Not true, it's translated as "virgin" in Genesis 24:43, Song of Solomon 6:8, and Song of Solomon 1:3. Likewise, it still carries the idea of "virgin" or someone that is of the age to marry but has not married (virgin). NO where in the Bible do we see "alma" refer to a young woman, in almost all instances it is in reference to a virgin. If birth was no consequence of the Messiah, why does the Talmud go so far as to say that Mary was raped by a Roman soldier and this is how Jesus was born? If it doesn't matter, why the lie and not just say Joseph was his father?

Christianity claims that Isaiah chapter 53 refers to Jesus, as the "suffering servant."

In actuality, Isaiah 53 directly follows the theme of chapter 52, describing the exile and redemption of the Jewish people. The prophecies are written in the singular form because the Jews ("Israel") are regarded as one unit. The Torah is filled with examples of the Jewish nation referred to with a singular pronoun.

Grammatically and logically, this is absolutely impossible. For one, this was thought to refer to the Messiah prior to Christ. Secondly, look at how it reads:

For he grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like out of parched ground; he has no stately form or majesty, that we should look upon him, nor appearance that we should be attracted to him.

Surely our griefs he himself bore, and our sorrows he carried; yet we ourselves esteemed him stricked, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was pierced through for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the chastening for our well being fell upon him, and by his sourging we are healed.

But the Lord has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on Him.

Now how could any of that refer to Israel as a whole? How could Israel not have any majesty when God made them the light among nations? Are they asserting that the Jewish nation has taken on the iniquity of other people so that other nations might be saved? Is that what they are asserting?

Of the 15,000 religions in human history, only Judaism bases its belief on national revelation -- i.e. God speaking to the entire nation. If God is going to start a religion, it makes sense He'll tell everyone, not just one person.

Wrong. The Mystery of Babylon was a religion that was supposedly revealed to an entire people through prophets.

Judaism, unique among all of the world's major religions, does not rely on "claims of miracles" as the basis for its religion. In fact, the Bible says that God sometimes grants the power of "miracles" to charlatans, in order to test Jewish loyalty to the Torah (Deut. 13:4).

Neither does Christianity. Jesus rebuked people for asking for miracles. He did perform miracles but merely as further evidence, that the Kingdom of God had come.

Judaism is not miracles. It is the personal eyewitness experience of every man, woman and child, standing at Mount Sinai 3,300 years ago.

Christianity is not miralces. It is the personal eyewitness expirience of every man, woman, and child, standing at Golgatha 2,000 years ago.

The Catholic idea of Trinity breaks God into three separate beings: The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost (Matthew 28:19).

Contrast this to the Shema, the basis of Jewish belief: "Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is ONE" (Deut. 6:4). Jews declare the Shema every day, while writing it on doorposts (Mezuzah), and binding it to the hand and head (Tefillin). This statement of God's One-ness is the first words a Jewish child is taught to say, and the last words uttered before a Jew dies.

In Jewish law, worship of a three-part god is considered idolatry -- one of the three cardinal sins that a Jew should rather give up his life than transgress. This explains why during the Inquisitions and throughout history, Jews gave up their lives rather than convert.

Genesis 1

Let "us". Who is this "us" God is talking about?

Maimonides devotes most of the "Guide for the Perplexed" to the fundamental idea that God is incorporeal, meaning that He assumes no physical form.

Really? How did God walk with Adam and Eve? How did God sit in the tent with Moses? How did God appear in the fire with Daniel's friends? How did God wrestle with Israel if He cannot take on human form?

Catholic doctrine often treats the physical world as an evil to be avoided. Mary, the holiest woman, is portrayed as a virgin. Priests and nuns are celibate. And monasteries are in remote, secluded locations.

By contrast, Judaism believes that God created the physical world not to frustrate us, but for our pleasure. Jewish spirituality comes through grappling with the mundane world in a way that uplifts and elevates. Sex in the proper context is one of the holiest acts we can perform.

The Catholic belief on that is a gnostic belief and not a Christian one. The Christian belief of GOd creating the physical world is the same as the Jewish belief.

[M45510G1C]

SJ, though I'm sure you know on which points I disagree with you, great post, I hope that helps the OP.

[PwrInTheBld]

look up daniel chapter 9 it tells you the year  jesus will be born,the year he died on cross 70 weeks you obviously dident study bible well .when jesus comes back again all wicked evil jews will see the messiah they rejected.then they will b punished

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You fondststue, are no less evil or wicked than any Jew or Gentile. Everyone who rejects Christ will be judged accordingly. So too will everyone, you included, for every careless word spoken.

fondstatue, why don't you try looking up Matthew 12:35-37 or Proverbs 22:11

Lord, help me to not have any attitude other than one that is Christlike.

[NITE OWL]

I've learned over the years that when you start looking into other faiths of the world your attention is drawn away from Christ.

I personally don't care what the jews think about Christ. I don't have to defend my faith to anyone. If they don't believe in Christ, that's their business, not mine.

My job as a believer in Christ is to plant seeds of hope. All those other faiths don't concern me. In my eyes they are the work of the devil. I don't need to study the devil. He can't get me into heaven, so what's the point?

You say you want to be better informed. Why? If their ways differ from Christ Jesus they are useless. Why waste your time on them?

The devil is the ruler of this planet we live on and all those other faiths were put into place by him as a stumbling block. You want to study the devil, read your bible. It clearly defines his tactics. It tells you what to look out for.

I'm not telling anyone what they should be doing. You want to play with satan, that's your choice. As for me, I think I'll stay on the side of the Father. It's safer there.

You all have a good one.

[apothanein kerdos]

Honestly, the best way to spot a fake is to know what the authentic looks like. In training to spot fake money, you have to have an intimate knowledge of what a real dollar bill looks like. The secret service experts dont' even study counterfits, instead, they study the real thing so if a counterfit comes along, they know it is. Christianity is the same way. If you want to spot a false religion and point out it's weaknesses, then you need to know your own faith and study your own faith.

[NITE OWL]

Honestly, the best way to spot a fake is to know what the authentic looks like. In training to spot fake money, you have to have an intimate knowledge of what a real dollar bill looks like. The secret service experts dont' even study counterfits, instead, they study the real thing so if a counterfit comes along, they know it is. Christianity is the same way. If you want to spot a false religion and point out it's weaknesses, then you need to know your own faith and study your own faith.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[JesusismyLord]

I think one must know other religions, for once it strengthens your own faith and educates you. You also are able to defend the faith by knowing the other teams offense already. The bible instructs us to be ready to give an answer to anyone who asks and why would you believe something if it false and can be proven false.

Wouldn't you like other religions to investigate the truth, thus coming to knowledge of the Jesus Christ.

[apothanein kerdos]

I think one must know other religions, for once it strengthens your own faith and educates you. You also are able to defend the faith by knowing the other teams offense already. The bible instructs us to be ready to give an answer to anyone who asks and why would you believe something if it false and can be proven false.

Wouldn't you like other religions to investigate the truth, thus coming to knowledge of the Jesus Christ.   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I took debate and even went to nationals in it. The best way to defend your case is to have an intimate knowledge of what you are talking about. In essence, know your case so well that whenever opposition comes against it, even if you haven't studied the opposition you can quickly point out how the opposition is wrong. This is actually a simple rule in debate. Studying the opposition, while it can be good, is not as effective as studying your own faith.

As the old war tactic goes, "The best offense is an amazing defense"

[NITE OWL]

I am a christian, but love educating myself on other religions, Judiasm is the only religion that has me a state of doubt right now, I still accept my Jesus, but I am having a diffucult time with this. I got that info from Jews for Judiasm, it's pretty clear to them Chrits isn't Messiah, but I need facts, and I just can't find any to refute some of thier ideas on messiah.

I need info for me and my faith alone.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your very last post said that knowing about other faiths strengthens your own faith.

But before that you said you were having doubts.

I'm confused. Are you doubting judiasm or Christ? You can't have it both ways.

You make my point when I say leave those other faiths alone.

You say we need to ready to give an answer. Are you going to study all the faiths of the world? I don't think you have that much time.

Study your own faith, forget all those other ones. Besides, you know they're wrong, why even go there.

If you were going to study rattlesnakes, would you fill your house with them?

If you were studying fire would you jump into a furnace?

Be careful kiddo. Satan doesn't play by the rules.

Have a good one.

[JesusismyLord]

I have studied most all major cults and religions, I have a basic idea of what they believe, but when I started studying Judiasm and why they dont accept Jesus, it got me thinking that about my faith and whether what I believe is real. It started one day when I approaching jewish guy at wal-mart and tried to question him about jesus, he said some things that I never heard before, our bible is mistranslated in the old testament, Jesus didn't fulfill prophecies, and so on.

Ater 3 weeks of struggling with it, I came to see Jesus truly is the Christ , the Son if the Living God, I'm glad I did look into Judiasm and learn about what they believe, it also helps you appreciate what other people believe and accept other faiths that don't agree with yours.