Are you personally prepared with the Gospel Armor for tribulation? If so, What scriptures got you there?

[DeighAnn]

57 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

 

Those who are raptured will avoid the tribulation altogether.

Luke 21: 36, Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

You know,  I would ask you to show me where Christ or any prophet ever said it, hinted at it, taught it but I already know it CAN'T BE DONE.  

THE WHOLE PREMISE GOES AGAINST EVERYTHING GOD TELLS US.  Do you understand what I am saying? 

It goes AGAINST GODS VERY NATURE. 

But please find it for your self. 

Starts out with a word NOT FOUND IN GODS WORD so that wont help to look up. 

When you go to  1 Thess one take notice that those who are returning are those who have died and gone to heaven.  If,  in fact Jesus were coming to rapture and go back He wouldn't be bringing people with Him.  That is just, I don't know the word. 

When you find the church "missing' in Revelation go search out where the church is ANYWHERE called 'the elders'.  Churches have elders.  

When you are kept from the hour, not suffer wrath, and all the rest know that that is the job of "the gospel armor" as the bible puts it the whole armour of God, 

Next notice the churches that  will remain.  Then look at what is being told to those other churches.  When you find one you think should go to heaven without being perfected as all the rest will be, as your self if all those promises are to those who stay, what promises would you be receiving by going.  There aren't any listed.  

And how 2 Thess doesn't clear it all up I have no idea.  


Have read the letter as we are commanded to do?  If you would like I could explain the bolded part of this to you.  I only offer because I had to have it explained to me cause I just didn't get it.  Just offering, just in case.

Isaiah 28:1 Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys of them that are overcome with wine!

Isaiah 28:2 Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing, shall cast down to the earth with the hand.

Isaiah 28:3 The crown of pride, the drunkards of Ephraim, shall be trodden under feet:

Isaiah 28:4 And the glorious beauty, which is on the head of the fat valley, shall be a fading flower, and as the hasty fruit before the summer; which when he that looketh upon it seeth, while it is yet in his hand he eateth it up.

Isaiah 28:5 In that day shall the LORD of hosts be for a crown of glory, and for a diadem of beauty, unto the residue of his people,

Isaiah 28:6 And for a spirit of judgment to him that sitteth in judgment, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate.

Isaiah 28:7 But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.

Isaiah 28:8 For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.

Isaiah 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Isaiah 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

Isaiah 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

Isaiah 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

Isaiah 28:14 Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.

Isaiah 28:15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

Isaiah 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

Isaiah 28:17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.

Isaiah 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

Isaiah 28:19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.

Isaiah 28:20 For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.
 

Matthew 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

Matthew 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, SONshine said:

Hey sis... Here are the scriptures regarding the 5-month trib period when the locust army is here.

Fifth Trumpet: The Locusts from the Bottomless Pit

9 Then the fifth angel sounded: And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth. To him was given the key to the bottomless pit. 2 And he opened the bottomless pit, and smoke arose out of the pit like the smoke of a great furnace. So the sun and the air were darkened because of the smoke of the pit. 3 Then out of the smoke locusts came upon the earth. And to them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 4 They were commanded not to harm the grass of the earth, or any green thing, or any tree, but only those men who do not have the seal of God in their foreheads. 5 And they were not given authority to kill them, but to torment them for five months. Their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it strikes a man. 6 In those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will desire to die, and death will flee from them.

If you couldn't use the 'picturesque' language, could you describe what is being said here?  I only ask because in my head I have good understanding but when I try to write it, it doesn't seem to come out right.  Just wondering if you have tried.  

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, Michael37 said:

Sa 17:38-39  And Saul armed David with his armour, and he put an helmet of brass upon his head; also he armed him with a coat of mail.  (39)  And David girded his sword upon his armour, and he assayed to go; for he had not proved it. And David said unto Saul, I cannot go with these; for I have not proved them. And David put them off him.

David was skilled with a slingshot. He didn't need someone else's opinion on his ability to face off against opposition. Saul's armour was ill-fitting, unproven, and actually a hinderance. Its use would suggest a lack of faith in God for deliverance. 

BTW. @DeighAnn Back in the days of WWI & WWII preachers all across Europe were convinced they were in the so-called "great tribulation". There was "great tribulation" as such but just not the final episode.

OHHHHH.  I have been looking for this for such a long time.  I was going to have to go cover to cover again.  THANK YOU.  

This is another argument for WHY God would not pre trib the church. With Satan being loosed at the end of the millennium, how can you have priests teaching those to go through it IF THEY HAVE NOT BEEN PROVEN THEMSELVES.  

BIG SIGH.  

And as for any other time in history.  Until the punishment of the tribes was complete, it never could have been.  That punishment did end in 1948, and just like God said, a nation once again.  EXCELLENT STUDY.   Lev 26 punishment,  Started with tribe of Ephraim  to Assyrian  ended with Benjamin Babylon.  

But to be perfectly honest HOW LONG IS A GENERATION?   Is it a generation of people? or  But look around.  Used to be things moved very slow, but you must admit the changes in the world in the last 100 years IS ALMOST LIKE A MIRACLE.

[HAZARD]

39 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

You know,  I would ask you to show me where Christ or any prophet ever said it, hinted at it, taught it but I already know it CAN'T BE DONE.  

THE WHOLE PREMISE GOES AGAINST EVERYTHING GOD TELLS US.  Do you understand what I am saying? 

It goes AGAINST GODS VERY NATURE. 

But please find it for your self. 

Starts out with a word NOT FOUND IN GODS WORD so that wont help to look up. 

When you go to  1 Thess one take notice that those who are returning are those who have died and gone to heaven.  If,  in fact Jesus were coming to rapture and go back He wouldn't be bringing people with Him.  That is just, I don't know the word. 

When you find the church "missing' in Revelation go search out where the church is ANYWHERE called 'the elders'.  Churches have elders.  

When you are kept from the hour, not suffer wrath, and all the rest know that that is the job of "the gospel armor" as the bible puts it the whole armour of God, 

Next notice the churches that  will remain.  Then look at what is being told to those other churches.  When you find one you think should go to heaven without being perfected as all the rest will be, as your self if all those promises are to those who stay, what promises would you be receiving by going.  There aren't any listed.  

And how 2 Thess doesn't clear it all up I have no idea.  


Have read the letter as we are commanded to do?  If you would like I could explain the bolded part of this to you.  I only offer because I had to have it explained to me cause I just didn't get it.  Just offering, just in case.

Isaiah 28:1 Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys of them that are overcome with wine!

Isaiah 28:2 Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing, shall cast down to the earth with the hand.

Isaiah 28:3 The crown of pride, the drunkards of Ephraim, shall be trodden under feet:

Isaiah 28:4 And the glorious beauty, which is on the head of the fat valley, shall be a fading flower, and as the hasty fruit before the summer; which when he that looketh upon it seeth, while it is yet in his hand he eateth it up.

Isaiah 28:5 In that day shall the LORD of hosts be for a crown of glory, and for a diadem of beauty, unto the residue of his people,

Isaiah 28:6 And for a spirit of judgment to him that sitteth in judgment, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate.

Isaiah 28:7 But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.

Isaiah 28:8 For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.

Isaiah 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Isaiah 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

Isaiah 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

Isaiah 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

Isaiah 28:14 Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.

Isaiah 28:15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

Isaiah 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

Isaiah 28:17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.

Isaiah 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

Isaiah 28:19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.

Isaiah 28:20 For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.
 

Matthew 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

Matthew 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

 

 

The Rapture is a distinct coming in itself, not to the Earth, but in the air where Christ meets the saints and then takes them back to Heaven to present them blameless before God the Father, John 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:16, 17.

The Rapture takes place several years before the literal advent of Christ to the Earth, for they, the saints come back with Him at that time. The saints are in Heaven before God, and not in the air, from the time of the Rapture to their coming again with Christ to reign as kings and priests, Jude 14; Rev. 19:14; Zech. 14:5.

At the Rapture, the Lord comes from Heaven as far as the air, or Earthly Heavens and the saints will be caught up to meet Him in the air.

At the second coming, the saints are not raptured, and neither is Christ, but both will come back to the Earth together. The rapture takes place before the Tribulation, whereas the second Advent takes place after the Tribulation. The Rapture could occur at any time, whereas the second Advent cannot occur until after the tribulation.

The bible clearly states that the hinderer of lawlessness must be removed before the Antichrist is revealed,  2 Thess. 2:7-8, For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. V. 8, And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

There are only there things in the world today that hinder lawlessness. They are the church, the Holy Spirit and human governments. The hinderer that will be taken out of the world must refer to one of these three things. It could not refer to the Holy Spirit and governments for neither will be taken out of the world. It is clear that governments will not be taken for the Antichrist will reign over the ten kingdoms during the tribulation (Dan. 7:23-24; Rev. 17:8-17). The Holy Spirit will be here during the tribulation, so He could not be the hinderer taken (Acts. 2:16-21; John 14:16; Rev. 7:14; 12:17; 19:10; Zech. 12:10).

The Church will be taken out of the world,  (1 Thess. 4:16; Eph. 5:26-27; 1 Cor. 15:51-58), so this must be the hinderer referred to

If you cannot understand how the church could be referred to as "he," see Eph. 2:15; 4:13 where the church is called a "man."

The purpose of the rapture is to resurrect the just from the dead and take all the saints out of the world before the tribulation comes, in order that they may have fulfilled in them the purpose for which God has saved them. Jesus told the disciples that some would escape the terrible things that were to transpire on the Earth in the last days. He said, “Pray that you may be accounted worth to escape all these things of, Matt. 24, 25; Luke 21:1-19, 25-28, that shall come to pass, and stand before the Son of man,” Luke 21:34-36. These two passages in Luke 21:34-36 and John 14:1-3, are the only ones in the Gospels that are clear concerning the Rapture. Jesus did not reveal this, it was revealed by Paul many years later in 1 Cor. 15:51. The disciples did not have the slightest idea as to how they were to escape, unless they thought that Christ would deliver them from these things through His power. The how was not revealed or even mentioned before Paul explained how they were to escape.
The Rapture of the church should never be confused with the second coming or second advent of Christ, for He does not come to the earth at that time.
The Rapture is a distinct coming in itself, not to the Earth, but in the air where Christ meets the saints and then takes them back to Heaven to present them blameless before God the Father, John 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:16, 17.
The Rapture takes place several years before the literal advent of Christ to the Earth, for they, the saints come back with Him at that time. The saints are in Heaven before God, and not in the air, from the time of the Rapture to their coming again with Christ to reign as kings and priests, Jude 14; Rev. 19:14; Zech. 14:5.
At the Rapture, the Lord comes from Heaven as far as the air, or Earthly Heavens and the saints will be caught up to meet Him in the air.
At the second coming, the saints are not raptured, and neither is Christ, but both will come back to the Earth together. The rapture takes place before the Tribulation, whereas the second Advent takes place after the Tribulation. The Rapture could occur at any time, whereas the second Advent cannot occur until after the tribulation.

[DeighAnn]

17 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

 

 

The Rapture is a distinct coming in itself, not to the Earth, but in the air where Christ meets the saints and then takes them back to Heaven to present them blameless before God the Father, John 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:16, 17.

The Rapture takes place several years before the literal advent of Christ to the Earth, for they, the saints come back with Him at that time. The saints are in Heaven before God, and not in the air, from the time of the Rapture to their coming again with Christ to reign as kings and priests, Jude 14; Rev. 19:14; Zech. 14:5.

At the Rapture, the Lord comes from Heaven as far as the air, or Earthly Heavens and the saints will be caught up to meet Him in the air.

At the second coming, the saints are not raptured, and neither is Christ, but both will come back to the Earth together. The rapture takes place before the Tribulation, whereas the second Advent takes place after the Tribulation. The Rapture could occur at any time, whereas the second Advent cannot occur until after the tribulation.

The bible clearly states that the hinderer of lawlessness must be removed before the Antichrist is revealed,  2 Thess. 2:7-8, For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. V. 8, And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

There are only there things in the world today that hinder lawlessness. They are the church, the Holy Spirit and human governments. The hinderer that will be taken out of the world must refer to one of these three things. It could not refer to the Holy Spirit and governments for neither will be taken out of the world. It is clear that governments will not be taken for the Antichrist will reign over the ten kingdoms during the tribulation (Dan. 7:23-24; Rev. 17:8-17). The Holy Spirit will be here during the tribulation, so He could not be the hinderer taken (Acts. 2:16-21; John 14:16; Rev. 7:14; 12:17; 19:10; Zech. 12:10).

The Church will be taken out of the world,  (1 Thess. 4:16; Eph. 5:26-27; 1 Cor. 15:51-58), so this must be the hinderer referred to

If you cannot understand how the church could be referred to as "he," see Eph. 2:15; 4:13 where the church is called a "man."

The purpose of the rapture is to resurrect the just from the dead and take all the saints out of the world before the tribulation comes, in order that they may have fulfilled in them the purpose for which God has saved them. Jesus told the disciples that some would escape the terrible things that were to transpire on the Earth in the last days. He said, “Pray that you may be accounted worth to escape all these things of, Matt. 24, 25; Luke 21:1-19, 25-28, that shall come to pass, and stand before the Son of man,” Luke 21:34-36. These two passages in Luke 21:34-36 and John 14:1-3, are the only ones in the Gospels that are clear concerning the Rapture. Jesus did not reveal this, it was revealed by Paul many years later in 1 Cor. 15:51. The disciples did not have the slightest idea as to how they were to escape, unless they thought that Christ would deliver them from these things through His power. The how was not revealed or even mentioned before Paul explained how they were to escape.
The Rapture of the church should never be confused with the second coming or second advent of Christ, for He does not come to the earth at that time.
The Rapture is a distinct coming in itself, not to the Earth, but in the air where Christ meets the saints and then takes them back to Heaven to present them blameless before God the Father, John 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:16, 17.
The Rapture takes place several years before the literal advent of Christ to the Earth, for they, the saints come back with Him at that time. The saints are in Heaven before God, and not in the air, from the time of the Rapture to their coming again with Christ to reign as kings and priests, Jude 14; Rev. 19:14; Zech. 14:5.
At the Rapture, the Lord comes from Heaven as far as the air, or Earthly Heavens and the saints will be caught up to meet Him in the air.
At the second coming, the saints are not raptured, and neither is Christ, but both will come back to the Earth together. The rapture takes place before the Tribulation, whereas the second Advent takes place after the Tribulation. The Rapture could occur at any time, whereas the second Advent cannot occur until after the tribulation.

Need to decide if OUR BELIEFS are more important than GODS TRUTH.  



Where do we go when we die?  
  
John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Christ died and was raised and went to the right hand side of God.  When we die, where do we go?  We return to God.  WHO receives us?  The Lord.  

What is not mentioned is the Tribulation.  What is not mentioned is the 'church'.  

ARE YOU COMFORTABLE ADDING THE TRIBULATION AND THE CHURCH TO THIS VERSE THAT MENTIONS NEITHER?  




STAND, NOT FLY
1 Thessalonians 3:8 For now we live, if ye stand fast in the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 3:9 For what thanks can we render to God again for you, for all the joy wherewith we joy for your sakes before our God;

1 Thessalonians 3:10 Night and day praying exceedingly that we might see your face, and might perfect that which is lacking in your faith?

1 Thessalonians 3:11 Now God Himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you.

1 Thessalonians 3:12 And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you:

1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end He may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Once again, there is no mention of the tribulation.  There is no mention of the Church.  The ONLY time mentioned is the coming of our Lord.  AND HE IS COMING WITH HIS SAINTS.  So He is not coming to pick up His saints.  

ARE YOU COMFORTABLE ADDING THE TRIBULATION AND THE CHURCH TO THIS VERSE THAT MENTIONS NEITHER?



 

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

 WHO THIS IS CONCERNING?  

ASK YOURSELF, IF THIS IS WHAT GODS WORD SAYS it is concerning then,
WHO do you suppose would tell you it is concerning something or some one else?  
 

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

WE DO BELIEVE  in the risen Christ.  The subject remains 'them which sleep'.  No church, no tribulation.  
And what will be happening with those who have slept?  God will be bringing them with Him.  

 

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Is there any mention of the church or the tribulation here?  NO.  

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

No church or tribulation here either
 

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

When Christ returns as Lord of Lord and King of Kings, those who are alive and remain shall be gathered and brought to Christ, to be with Him forever.  We will reign with Him and be priests.  As He is coming to earth, that is where we will reign with Him.  

Any mention of pre tribulation?   Not a sound.  Now if you continue on reading you will find the TIME STAMP  given to Thess 4;13 - 17

1 Thessalonians 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1 Thessalonians 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

SO WE CAN BE POSITIVE, BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT, STAND FAST IN THE WHEN OF 1 THESS 4:13-17.  



What INFORMATION, BY GOD, ARE WE GIVEN NEXT? 

1 Thessalonians 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

THEY are saying.  Destruction coming upon THEM.   THEY shall not escape.  Ever wonder who they is?  Those who have fallen into deception.  Those who want to save their lives amongst them.  

1 Thessalonians 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Would it even be possible for that day to overtake you if you weren't here?

1 Thessalonians 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

1 Thessalonians 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

Remember we were just told what DAY is being spoken of.  

1 Thessalonians 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

And what advice is given?  

1 Thessalonians 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
HOW DO WE NOT HAVE WRATH FALL ON US?  BE SOBER, PUT ON BREASTPLATE OF FAITH AND LOVE AND AN HELMET  FOR WHAT?????

THE HOPE OF SALVATION

1 Thessalonians 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

1 Thessalonians 5:11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

1 Thessalonians 5:12 And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you;

1 Thessalonians 5:13 And to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. And be at peace among yourselves.

1 Thessalonians 5:14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.

So that has nothing to do with the church or the tribulation except telling us how to dress for it and what to do or not do



So that covers your first paragraph.  NOT ONE MENTION OF THE CHURCH BEING TAKEN PRE TRIB.  

PLEASE IF I HAVE READ SOMETHING WRONG IN GODS WORD SHOW ME.  

WILL I BE ENCOUNTERING THESE SAME SORTS OF ISSUES IN THE NEXT PARAGRAPH?  

SO I ASK, IF PRE TRIB IS NOT MENTIONED IN ANY OF THESE VERSES


WHO DO YOU SUPPOSE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR SAYING IT IS?
 

[HAZARD]

7 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Need to decide if OUR BELIEFS are more important than GODS TRUTH.  



Where do we go when we die?  
  
John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Christ died and was raised and went to the right hand side of God.  When we die, where do we go?  We return to God.  WHO receives us?  The Lord.  

What is not mentioned is the Tribulation.  What is not mentioned is the 'church'.  

ARE YOU COMFORTABLE ADDING THE TRIBULATION AND THE CHURCH TO THIS VERSE THAT MENTIONS NEITHER?  




STAND, NOT FLY
1 Thessalonians 3:8 For now we live, if ye stand fast in the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 3:9 For what thanks can we render to God again for you, for all the joy wherewith we joy for your sakes before our God;

1 Thessalonians 3:10 Night and day praying exceedingly that we might see your face, and might perfect that which is lacking in your faith?

1 Thessalonians 3:11 Now God Himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you.

1 Thessalonians 3:12 And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you:

1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end He may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Once again, there is no mention of the tribulation.  There is no mention of the Church.  The ONLY time mentioned is the coming of our Lord.  AND HE IS COMING WITH HIS SAINTS.  So He is not coming to pick up His saints.  

ARE YOU COMFORTABLE ADDING THE TRIBULATION AND THE CHURCH TO THIS VERSE THAT MENTIONS NEITHER?



 

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

 WHO THIS IS CONCERNING?  

ASK YOURSELF, IF THIS IS WHAT GODS WORD SAYS it is concerning then,
WHO do you suppose would tell you it is concerning something or some one else?  
 

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

WE DO BELIEVE  in the risen Christ.  The subject remains 'them which sleep'.  No church, no tribulation.  
And what will be happening with those who have slept?  God will be bringing them with Him.  

 

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Is there any mention of the church or the tribulation here?  NO.  

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

No church or tribulation here either
 

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

When Christ returns as Lord of Lord and King of Kings, those who are alive and remain shall be gathered and brought to Christ, to be with Him forever.  We will reign with Him and be priests.  As He is coming to earth, that is where we will reign with Him.  

Any mention of pre tribulation?   Not a sound.  Now if you continue on reading you will find the TIME STAMP  given to Thess 4;13 - 17

1 Thessalonians 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1 Thessalonians 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

SO WE CAN BE POSITIVE, BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT, STAND FAST IN THE WHEN OF 1 THESS 4:13-17.  



What INFORMATION, BY GOD, ARE WE GIVEN NEXT? 

1 Thessalonians 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

THEY are saying.  Destruction coming upon THEM.   THEY shall not escape.  Ever wonder who they is?  Those who have fallen into deception.  Those who want to save their lives amongst them.  

1 Thessalonians 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Would it even be possible for that day to overtake you if you weren't here?

1 Thessalonians 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

1 Thessalonians 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

Remember we were just told what DAY is being spoken of.  

1 Thessalonians 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

And what advice is given?  

1 Thessalonians 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
HOW DO WE NOT HAVE WRATH FALL ON US?  BE SOBER, PUT ON BREASTPLATE OF FAITH AND LOVE AND AN HELMET  FOR WHAT?????

THE HOPE OF SALVATION

1 Thessalonians 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

1 Thessalonians 5:11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

1 Thessalonians 5:12 And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you;

1 Thessalonians 5:13 And to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. And be at peace among yourselves.

1 Thessalonians 5:14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.

So that has nothing to do with the church or the tribulation except telling us how to dress for it and what to do or not do



So that covers your first paragraph.  NOT ONE MENTION OF THE CHURCH BEING TAKEN PRE TRIB.  

PLEASE IF I HAVE READ SOMETHING WRONG IN GODS WORD SHOW ME.  

WILL I BE ENCOUNTERING THESE SAME SORTS OF ISSUES IN THE NEXT PARAGRAPH?  

SO I ASK, IF PRE TRIB IS NOT MENTIONED IN ANY OF THESE VERSES


WHO DO YOU SUPPOSE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR SAYING IT IS?
 

 

If you die before the rapture you either go to Heaven if your in Christ, or to Hell if not. Its that simple.

 The purpose of the rapture is to resurrect the just from the dead and take all the saints out of the world before the tribulation comes, in order that they may have fulfilled in them the purpose for which God has saved them.

Jesus told the disciples that some would escape the terrible things that were to transpire on the Earth in the last days. He said, “Pray that you may be accounted worth to escape all these things of, Matt. 24, 25; Luke 21:1-19, 25-28, that shall come to pass, and stand before the Son of man,” Luke 21:34-36.

These two passages in Luke 21:34-36 and John 14:1-3, are the only ones in the Gospels that are clear concerning the Rapture. Jesus did not reveal this, it was revealed by Paul many years later in 1 Cor. 15:51. The disciples did not have the slightest idea as to how they were to escape, unless they thought that Christ would deliver them from these things through His power. The how was not revealed or even mentioned before Paul explained how they were to escape.

Like I said earlier, The Rapture of the church should never be confused with the second coming or second advent of Christ, for He does not come to the earth at that time.
The Rapture is a distinct coming in itself, not to the Earth, but in the air where Christ meets the saints and then takes them back to Heaven to present them blameless before God the Father, John 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:16, 17.
The Rapture takes place several years before the literal advent of Christ to the Earth, for they, the saints come back with Him at that time. The saints are in Heaven before God, and not in the air, from the time of the Rapture to their coming again with Christ to reign as kings and priests, Jude 14; Rev. 19:14; Zech. 14:5.
At the Rapture, the Lord comes from Heaven as far as the air, or Earthly Heavens and the saints will be caught up to meet Him in the air.
At the second coming, the saints are not raptured, and neither is Christ, but both will come back to the Earth together. The rapture takes place before the Tribulation, whereas the second Advent takes place after the Tribulation. The Rapture could occur at any time, whereas the second Advent cannot occur until after the tribulation.

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, HAZARD said:

The Rapture takes place several years before the literal advent of Christ to the Earth, for they, the saints come back with Him at that time. The saints are in Heaven before God, and not in the air, from the time of the Rapture to their coming again with Christ to reign as kings and priests, Jude 14; Rev. 19:14; Zech. 14:5.

REALLY?  ALREADY?  OK 


Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
ME TOO.

Jude 1:10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

Jude 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

Jude 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

Jude 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

NOW LOOK AT WHAT YOU MISSED, WE HAVE ALREADY ASSERTAINED THAT THOSE WHO HAVE SLEPT ARE RETURNING WITH HIM, SO THERE HAS STILL NOT BEEN ONE WORD OF THE CHURCH PRE TRIB GOING OFF TO HEAVEN, 

Jude 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Jude 1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

Jude 1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;

WHY WOULD THE LORD WARN US OF THIS IF WE WERE NOT TO BE HERE?

Jude 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

Jude 1:19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

Jude 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

Jude 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:


WELL that was a bust as to church and tribulation.  SO FAR THE ONLY ONES WHO HAVE BEEN TAKEN TO HEAVEN ARE THOSE WHO HAVE SLEPT.  

Revelation 19:4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

A CHURCH HAS ELDERS, ELDERS ARE NOT THE CHURCH


 

Zechariah 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Zechariah 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Zechariah 14:6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:

NO COMMENT


 

 

[DeighAnn]

5 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

 

If you die before the rapture you either go to Heaven if your in Christ, or to Hell if not. Its that simple.

 The purpose of the rapture is to resurrect the just from the dead and take all the saints out of the world before the tribulation comes, in order that they may have fulfilled in them the purpose for which God has saved them.

Jesus told the disciples that some would escape the terrible things that were to transpire on the Earth in the last days. He said, “Pray that you may be accounted worth to escape all these things of, Matt. 24, 25; Luke 21:1-19, 25-28, that shall come to pass, and stand before the Son of man,” Luke 21:34-36.

These two passages in Luke 21:34-36 and John 14:1-3, are the only ones in the Gospels that are clear concerning the Rapture. Jesus did not reveal this, it was revealed by Paul many years later in 1 Cor. 15:51. The disciples did not have the slightest idea as to how they were to escape, unless they thought that Christ would deliver them from these things through His power. The how was not revealed or even mentioned before Paul explained how they were to escape.

Like I said earlier, The Rapture of the church should never be confused with the second coming or second advent of Christ, for He does not come to the earth at that time.
The Rapture is a distinct coming in itself, not to the Earth, but in the air where Christ meets the saints and then takes them back to Heaven to present them blameless before God the Father, John 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:16, 17.
The Rapture takes place several years before the literal advent of Christ to the Earth, for they, the saints come back with Him at that time. The saints are in Heaven before God, and not in the air, from the time of the Rapture to their coming again with Christ to reign as kings and priests, Jude 14; Rev. 19:14; Zech. 14:5.
At the Rapture, the Lord comes from Heaven as far as the air, or Earthly Heavens and the saints will be caught up to meet Him in the air.
At the second coming, the saints are not raptured, and neither is Christ, but both will come back to the Earth together. The rapture takes place before the Tribulation, whereas the second Advent takes place after the Tribulation. The Rapture could occur at any time, whereas the second Advent cannot occur until after the tribulation.

UNTIL YOU COMMENT AND CORRECT MY POST, I WILL NOT EVEN READ THIS.  

[HAZARD]

1 minute ago, DeighAnn said:

UNTIL YOU COMMENT AND CORRECT MY POST, I WILL NOT EVEN READ THIS.  

You would do well to get off your high horse and read what's written in the Word of God and believe what you read. You have no idea. Forget your pet theories which have nothing to do with the rapture of the saints.

You certainly have not even checked my scriptures provided in such a short time. Watch out your not left behind, should it occur before you die.

 

Matt. 24: 37-42,

 42, But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 
    38, For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 
    39, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 
    40, Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 
    41, Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 
    42, Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 

[HAZARD]

 

The Rapture takes place several years before the literal advent of Christ to the Earth, for they, the saints come back with Him at that time. The saints are in Heaven before God, and not in the air, from the time of the Rapture to their coming again with Christ to reign as kings and priests, Jude 14; Rev. 19:14; Zech. 14:5.

At the Rapture, the Lord comes from Heaven as far as the air, or Earthly Heavens and the saints will be caught up to meet Him in the air.

At the second coming, the saints are not raptured, and neither is Christ, but both will come back to the Earth together. The rapture takes place before the Tribulation, whereas the second Advent takes place after the Tribulation. The Rapture could occur at any time, whereas the second Advent cannot occur until after the tribulation.

 

Daniel’s Seventieth Week and the Tribulation. Dan. 9:24-27.

 

The Tribulation will begin to affect Israel before the seventieth week begins. And when the Antichrist rises at the beginning of the Week, Israel will be undergoing persecution by the whore and the ten kings of Revised Rome who are dominated by the whore until the middle of the week. The Antichrist will make a seven years covenant with Israel assuring them protection in their continued establishment as a nation, Dan. 9:27.

The Jews will not accept Catholicism when it again dominates the nations of the old world and begins to murder all heretics as it has done in the past. Because Jews will not submit, there will be a widespread persecution of the Jews and “theywill be hated of all nations” during the time of “the beginning of sorrows” when the Antichrist will be endeavoring to conquer all these nations, Matt. 24:4-12.

Antichrist will need Jewish moral and financial support to help him rise over these nations, so he will make an alliance with them for seven years. Therefore, the time of the Tribulation is during the whole of Daniel’s Seventieth Week, Dan. 9:27. It will end at the second Advent, Matt. 24:29-31.

Jesus said that the angels don't know when the rapture will happen, He also said that even He does not know. So if the angels don't know then Satan also doesn't know when it will happen. Only the Father knows according to Jesus.

 

Mark 13:4, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

 

Jesus replied,

 

Mark 13:32, But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

 

Scripture also states that Satan knows that he has but a short time.

 

Revelation 12:12,Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

 

Taking in the fact that we and Satan live in eternity future, Satan knew he had but a short time the day he rebelled against the Father, and the fact the Jesus defeated him by His death and resurrection. Any length of time cut from a life to be lived in eternity, no matter when this occurs will be but a short time.

 

The disciples asked Jesus when will this all occur?

 

 

Mark 13:4, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

 

5, And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:

    

6, For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

    

7, And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.

    

8, For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.

 

9, But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.

    

10, And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

 

All these things so far at one time or another have been happening since Jesus returned to Heaven and sent the Holy Spirit to keep us and guide us. The only thing I can see that has not yet occurred is the fact the gospel has not yet been preached among all nations.

 

There have been tribes found deep in South America, Papua New Guinea, and other parts of the Earth that have not yet even heard of God, the gospel, or Jesus.