40,000 years of history? Man before Adam?

[johnthebaptist]

2 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

No is saying that Paul is divine. that was rather slippery of you. The discussion is , is the whole bible inspired by the Holy Spirit or is it not

And your belief is that it is not.  That Paul cracked off some lies and God allowed them in the one book that all Christianity leans to?

I don't think Paul was lying - I think he believed what he said.

[Riverwalker]

7 minutes ago, johnthebaptist said:

I don't think Paul was lying - I think he believed what he said.

Okay, good distinction. But you still believe that God allowed that error to exist in the bible that we all rely on?

[johnthebaptist]

1 minute ago, Riverwalker said:

Okay, good distinction. But you still believe that God allowed that error to exist in the bible that we all rely on?

I think I find an error in your logic, if you'll allow me to explain:

It is not the Bible we are to depend on. It is God we are supposed to depend on. The Bible helps us do that, but you must put your focus on God. Get to know him. Be in constant prayer - as Paul advises (1 Thessalonians 5:17). 

[Amigo42]

1 hour ago, Riverwalker said:

So you think God let Paul hijack his bible......  srsly?

all because this scripture offends you?

I think that sometimes people forget that the prevailing culture at the time also weighed heavily on people.  It doesn't mean that everything that was said was a commandment or even an inspiration from God, and that's ok. 

                                      

[Riverwalker]

4 minutes ago, Amigo42 said:

I think that sometimes people forget that the prevailing culture at the time also weighed heavily on people.  It doesn't mean that everything that was said was a commandment or even an inspiration from God, and that's ok. 

                                      

Then what authority can you possibly give the bible? If in fact it is indeed faulty?

[Amigo42]

Just now, Riverwalker said:

Then what authority can you possibly give the bible? If in fact it is indeed faulty?

Well, I don't think the Bible is faulty.  It is inspired by the Spirit of God in general, but it doesn't mean every single word is perfect and direct from the mouth of God.  For example, I'm sure God has inspired all of us who serve Him.  God may have inspired some of us to write books, but we wouldn't necessarily claim every word in the book we wrote is perfect because we know some of it contains our own ideas and concepts.  However, the inspiration behind the work is of God.

Another example, humans and all life forms on this planet are made and created directed by the Master Mind, God the Father.  Our design is perfect.  However, because of sin our bodies are dying and people sometimes get sick.  Does that mean God's design and creation are not perfection.  No!  It is perfect, but sin has brought corruption.  I see the Bible in the same way which you must note was not directly created by God's own power.  Do I still trust the Bible? Of course, I trust that is gives us all we need to know to believe and trust in the High King.

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, Riverwalker said:

And that is why I do not attempt to modify the bible to fit my belief. But rather modify my beliefs to fit the bible.

There are many things that bible talks about that are beyond my fullgrasp. The eternal nature of God, The Triune Nature of God,  the Physical reality of Miracles and how they happen. God's ability to speak things into being et al.

And while I cannot fully comprehend them, I do fully accept them.

It is a fools errand to try and make the reality of God, fit the "reality" of man. He is so much bigger than that.

It all comes down to who is the Authority

If God is the Authority then  e take Him at his word, even if it does not make sense to us, or if something else does make sense to us.

Because if God had to make sense to us to be true, He would not be much of a God

 

I must agree 100%.  

But,  something must have led you to seeing that verse in Jeremiah as future.  Either just a hunch OR something you read somewhere else in the bible.  I would just like to know if there was something you read, a second witness of sorts, that led you that way. 

I also am not one to 'rules' that tell me what His word can and can not say.

But when I read something to the effect of  'he didn't make it concave (void, vain, without form)and then it was found to be concave (null and without)'

I have to think/am led to, WHAT does that mean?  And naturally I keep that on my radar as I read through and come across 

Jeremiah 4:20 Destruction upon destruction is cried........followed by .....I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

Which brings to remembrance 

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

then putting all that together I think/am led to....I know God didn't create Satan right off the bat and stick him in the garden to start off our story, and I know that because

Ezekiel 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

Ezekiel 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Ezekiel 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Ezekiel 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

confirming I was led there,  and also I know this is coming

 

Ezekiel 28:2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

Ezekiel 28:3 Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:

Ezekiel 28:4 With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures:

Ezekiel 28:5 By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:

Ezekiel 28:6 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;

well, maybe you can see HOW I put it in the PAST, not the future.  IT just doesn't seem to have ANY backing THAT I HAVE FOUND so far to be a future event.  We have many details on what is going to happen and NO WHERE I heard this mentioned in relation to it.  

Thoughts?

[Riverwalker]

1 minute ago, DeighAnn said:

I must agree 100%.  

But,  something must have led you to seeing that verse in Jeremiah as future.  Either just a hunch OR something you read somewhere else in the bible.  I would just like to know if there was something you read, a second witness of sorts, that led you that way. 

I also am not one to 'rules' that tell me what His word can and can not say.

But when I read something to the effect of  'he didn't make it concave (void, vain, without form)and then it was found to be concave (null and without)'

I have to think/am led to, WHAT does that mean?  And naturally I keep that on my radar as I read through and come across 

Jeremiah 4:20 Destruction upon destruction is cried........followed by .....I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

Which brings to remembrance 

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

then putting all that together I think/am led to....I know God didn't create Satan right off the bat and stick him in the garden to start off our story, and I know that because

Ezekiel 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

Ezekiel 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Ezekiel 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Ezekiel 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

confirming I was led there,  and also I know this is coming

 

Ezekiel 28:2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

Ezekiel 28:3 Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:

Ezekiel 28:4 With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures:

Ezekiel 28:5 By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:

Ezekiel 28:6 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;

well, maybe you can see HOW I put it in the PAST, not the future.  IT just doesn't seem to have ANY backing THAT I HAVE FOUND so far to be a future event.  We have many details on what is going to happen and NO WHERE I heard this mentioned in relation to it.  

Thoughts?

As to Jeremiah. my conclusion, thought I cannot be dogmatic  seems to be reasonable in comparison with other scripture.   And it is in the support of other scripture that should be the only purpose of going there. 

Not reading the scripture to confirm or notions, but conforming our notions to scripture

In the same tack on Creation I used to see room for the gap between the world existing and creation (Between Verse 1 and 2 of Genesis 1) until I read Mark 10

Mark 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’

When Jesus said that Adam and Eve were in the beginning of creation with God, I had to put aside that notion.

Once can speculate as to what beginning means, but it is just speculation. I must take God at His word

 

[Uber Genius]

Francis Collin's Language of God book made allusions to this concept. Then in 2011, Christianity Today published the view.

Here is a resource for further investigation:

https://biologos.org/articles/series/genetics-and-the-historical-adam-responses-to-popular-arguments/adam-eve-and-human-population-genetics

I find it dubious due to the fact that evolution is false. So attempts of harmonizing the creation accounts in Gen 1 and 2 with evolutionary theory seem hopeless. I could no sooner believe that the Earth is on the back of a turtle than that evolution produced Adam and Eve.

Now there are special creation models that suggest that hominids coexisted with Adam and Eve, but that seems strange that no such ancient human culture represents such a thing.

[Uber Genius]

From biologos site above:

"One significant source of human genetic variation comes in the form of what are known as single nucleotide polymorphisms, or “SNPs” (pronounced “snips”). “Polymorphism” simply means “having many forms”. SNPs are single DNA letters that are variable among humans, and we have around 300,000 common SNPs in our genome of 3 billion DNA letters. In other words, the majority of our genomes are identical to each other, but a small number of DNA letter positions on our chromosomes are variable."

So there are estimates of occurrence of SNPs that suggest a minimum amount of ancestors needed to produce these variations. One would need to determine the maturity of the science. This is new, and I imaging that there the method of tying SNPs to generations is highly controversial.