There are words I have never heard in the bible

[leah777]

1 minute ago, Sparks said:

Why do you think a person cannot make choice based on hearing the Good News? 

Have you heard someone talking about their Calling to a vocation? Its who they are, its part of their entire being, its an overwhelming compulsion and need. Like falling in love. Its not a cold choice, without it they will want to die. That is what God does to us to when He calls. Our souls respond and we come home to Him. I cannot explain more.

[Sparks]

1 minute ago, leah777 said:

Have you heard someone talking about their Calling to a vocation? Its who they are, its part of their entire being, its an overwhelming compulsion and need. Like falling in love. Its not a cold choice, without it they will want to die. That is what God does to us to when He calls. Our souls respond and we come home to Him. I cannot explain more.

I guess I don't understand why you asked the question in the first place.  Don't you have freewill?  If I told you the Good News, you don't think you could make a choice about whether or not you wanted to become saved?

I bet you would not struggle with a decision about a free pizza offer.  I bet you could instantly decide if you wanted the pizza or not.  Why struggle with the free offer of heaven?

[leah777]

2 minutes ago, Josheb said:

There is no moment between salvation and regeneration. Regeneration is salvation! Or, to be more concise, regeneration is the first step in salvation. Regeneration is the moment in which we are "born again," or more accurately: born anew from above. It is the moment in which we are brought from death..................... to life! It is the moment of conversion. 

What life? 

Life in Christ, of course. 

 

Salvation is spoken of as an already existing state or condition, a process God and we are effecting continuously, and an event occurring on the other side of the grave when we are resurrected. We have been saved. We are saved. We are being saved. And we will be saved. Past, present, ongoing, and future-tenses. All are used in scripture to speak of salvation from sin and wrath. 

 

So you wonder about the moment between salvation and regeneration. I have a question for you. Think about it. Consider what you can recall from scripture. Take some time to search and examine the Word if you like (the posts aren't going anywhere ). 

 

Where in the Bible do you find a report of a person being saved but not regenerated? 

 

We must be born anew from above to see the kingdom of God. 

still not understanding me. I do not wonder about the moment in terms of what actually happens or not. Perhaps I cannot explain. You and others take this too literally in cold hard words without the emotions of the heart involved in all of this change. Thank you for trying to understand.

[leah777]

11 minutes ago, Sparks said:

I guess I don't understand why you asked the question in the first place.  Don't you have freewill?  If I told you the Good News, you don't think you could make a choice about whether or not you wanted to become saved?

I bet you would not struggle with a decision about a free pizza offer.  I bet you could instantly decide if you wanted the pizza or not.  Why struggle with the free offer of heaven?

Dont assume what I would or would not do.

You do not understand about vocation. Thats OK.

[Sparks]

6 minutes ago, leah777 said:

Dont assume what I would or would not do.

You do not understand about vocation. Thats OK.

There is only two possibilities in the pizza scenario, so what's to assume? 

It's actually the same two possible choices with God's gift, too.  It's a boolean choice.

[Willa]

Some people identify with a denomination.  This is wrong.  We are supposed to identify with Christ.  It is not I who lives but Christ Who lives in me.  

Denominations can be good if they teach basic truths of the Bible like salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone.  They are not as good when they depart from Scripture in their doctrine.  

Too often people are tainted by their misunderstandings about what the Bible teaches, or by other peoples misunderstandings concerning their beliefs.  These misunderstandings cause the divisions.  

Originally many divisions were caused by language differences.  People of the same language gathered together to worship.  We had Greek churches, Roman churches, Russian, Norwegian, Swedish etc.  As time went on people withdrew from fellowship with those who departed from believing the Scriptures.  This has continued to occur.  It is good in that 

 1Co 11:19  for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized.   

In the present times with denominations merging it is at the sacrifice of belief in Scripture.  The mainline old denominations are often the ones that are departing from a genuine relationship with the Living God.  People leave them searching for truth and something real.   

A Christian is a person in whom Christ lives.  It doesn't matter what their denomination is if Christ indwells them and expresses His love and forgiveness through them.  It is a badge of honor to be known as the "deplorables" since we are told disciples would be treated as they treated Him.  

 

 

[Sparks]

Just now, Josheb said:

Not according to scripture. 

 

I am glad you posted that, Sparks, because it is very common for a person to think, "Well it sure seemed like I made a choice," but saying that to the point at which we read scripture throughout personal anecdotal experience we are elevating our experience above God's word. Since it seemed to be our choice that's what those verses must mean. 

I used to believe that very way. 

Then I read God's word and realized it described and defined my conversion experience much differently than I perceived it.

But if we take God's word as the authority and submit our personal experience to God's word, and not the other way around we find 1) Scripture always assigns causality to God and 2) it never assigns causality to the sinfully dead sinful non-believer's will. I can cite many verses that in essence saying "God did it," but there's no verse saying "The sinfully dead sinful sinner's choice did it." 

 

Think otherwise?

Okay Show me the text.

I am saved because I heard about the Good News, and millions of other have been saved that way, too. 

If you doubt my salvation or how I became saved, I guess I don't have to take your opinions seriously.

[Sparks]

12 hours ago, Josheb said:

HERE is what Arminius himself, writing specifically on the nature of the free will, said about your point of view:

 

"

In this state, the free will of man towards the true good is not only wounded, maimed, infirm, bent, and weakened; but it is also imprisoned, destroyed, and lost. And its powers are not only debilitated and useless unless they be assisted by grace, but it has no powers whatever except such as are excited by Divine grace. For Christ has said, 'Without me ye can do nothing.' St. Augustine, after having diligently meditated upon each word in this passage, speaks thus: 'Christ does not say, without me ye can do but Little; neither does He say, without me ye can do any Arduous Thing, nor without me ye can do it with difficulty. But he says, without me ye can do Nothing! Nor does he say, without me ye cannot complete any thing; but without me ye can do Nothing.' That this may be made more manifestly to appear, we will separately consider the mind, the affections or will, and the capability, as contra-distinguished from them, as well as the life itself of an unregenerate man.

"

What you're posting is NOT Arminianism. 

Not all choices are identical. To suggest otherwise is to assert another false equivalency. The list of false equivalencies asserted is growing.

 

A request was made for scripture reporting all gifts are identical. A request was also made for scripture showing non-believers accepting salvation. I don't see those requests being addressed. 

 

I am pretty sure I am right being that I am indwelled by the Holy Spirit, and I told you how that happened.  I will trust Him.  I appreciate the chat, but I won't be responding this particular topic from you, again.  

God Bless 

[Marathoner]

54 minutes ago, leah777 said:

still not understanding me. I do not wonder about the moment in terms of what actually happens or not. Perhaps I cannot explain. You and others take this too literally in cold hard words without the emotions of the heart involved in all of this change. Thank you for trying to understand.

I felt like a child, @leah777. When the Spirit of God spoke I became aware of a terrible burden weighing down upon me and all I could do was weep. I was so unclean, so unworthy, and so defiled that when the Lord said, Come to Me, I knew that He would wash me clean, clothe me in a white garment, and draw me into Himself. 

I would come home, and this was astonishing because I never had a home until the Lord came to claim me as His own.  These things can be difficult to express with words for there are times when the Spirit of the Lord moves upon us in ways which surpasses words, sister. You know what I mean by this, I am sure. 

Edited April 7, 2021 by Marathoner
clarity

[Willa]

10 minutes ago, Sparks said:

I am saved because I heard about the Good News, and millions of other have been saved that way, too. 

If you doubt my salvation or how I became saved, I guess I don't have to take your opinions seriously.

No-one is doubting your salvation or how you were saved.  There are two views as to how this happened--your's and God's.  From  God's perspective, It was God Who opened your ears and understanding to perceive and believe the the Gospel.  Faith is a gift.  Salvation is a gift.  it is GOD Who calls you, enlightens you, convicts you of sin, saves you, sanctifies you and conforms you to the image of His Son.  From your perspective you made the choice to repent and follow through in receiving Christ and perhaps being baptized.  Neither of you is wrong.