The concept of the original sin

Riverwalker · April 5, 2021

I remember a story about a man who was a good Christian, but for the life of him he could not stop cussing. So one day God decided He would help the man, so every time the man cussed, he would remove a body part. first a finger or a toe, an ear maybe....but the man proved more stubborn until one day there was nothing left but his head, and his last act was to mouth an obscenity, and poof he was Gone

And the Moral of the story ....is quit while you are a head.

Edited April 5, 2021 by Riverwalker

leah777 · April 5, 2021

3 hours ago, Josheb said:

Here's a reality check you won't find expounded upon in the Bible but what I am posting is nonetheless inescapably true. If there are any doubts then look up the science. After having done so consider the spiritual/theological implications.

In recent decades, with the development of MRIs and CATScans, improvements in cellular biology, and the ability to open up the skull without killing the person, we've learned a great deal about the design features of humans. One of the fact most relevant to this OP is the fact everything we ever experience gets recorded in memory. Everything. We sometimes have great difficulty recalling what has been recorded but it all gets recorded. All of it.

So the moment Adam (and Eve) disobeyed God a memory of the episode got recorded in the memory cells of their brain. The moment his eyes/her were opened got recorded in the cells of their respective brains. The moment they realized they were naked that realization got recorded in their brains. The moment the felt the shame that came with the disobedience that experience got recorded in the brain. Then moment they went from being good to being not-good, the moment they went from being sinless living beings to being dead in sin, the moment they went from walking with God to hiding from God was all recorded in the memory cells of their brain. The moment they first failed to take responsibility for their own actions and sought to blame another got recorded. There was a physiological record stored inside each of them.

In other words, in those moments the two humans, Adam and Eve, became physically different than what they had been just moments earlier.

Next, through the process of cellular mitosis every cell in the human body eventually replicates and replaces itself. It takes about three years for the human body to replace itself in its entirety. Eventually this process leads to every cell in the body having some record of the individual's experience. Things that were originally stored in the memory cells in the brain eventually become part of every single cell in the body.

In other words, as years passed every single cell in Adam and Eve's body bore the record of their disobedience and its effects.

Through the process of procreation half of the male's chromosomes and half of the woman's chromosomes are combined to create a new zygote, which in time grows into a human fetus, then child, then adult. Through that process every single one of Adam and Eve's progeny also bore the record of their parents' disobedience and the trauma it effected. Their offspring then had their own moments of disobedience and the effects sin brings and they added that to their already-existing cellular make-up. And on and on it continued.

The Early Church Fathers did not know what we now know about human genetics. They didn't even know something called a "gene" existed, much less what it is or does. For centuries the existence of a physiological effect that could be transferred from parent to progeny, one generation to another was debated and repudiated.

The sad fact is we now have irrefutable proof.

The brain literally changes, especially during episodes of trauma and what could possibly have been more traumatic to anyone but the fall from a right relationship with our Creator?

This is how and why sinless perfectionism is impossible on this side of the grave. Unless and until every single mark of sin is eradicated from every single cell there is a record of sin born within us. We may not be aware of it but the omniscient God knows. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. We must be changed. Blessed, we will be changed. God has promised to raise us imperishable/incorruptible and immortal.

Now I know this is gonna cause some dissent. So look up what I have posted before you post. One need not be a biologist, neurologist, psychiatrist, etc. to learn about what I've just posted. Information on biogenesis, psychobiogenesis, neuroplasticity, the physiological nature of memory, andother aspects of how the body maintains a record can be found easily by all. None of us remembers Eden, but if Adam and Eve were in fact the first two humans and the only humans from which all others have come then every single one of us bears some remnant of that experience and every other accumulating sin our bloodline begat.

And that should lead us to a greater, more profound gratitude for God's work in our lives.

thank you x 10000000 for posting this truth.

leah777 · April 5, 2021

1 hour ago, enoob57 said:

1 John 1

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
KJV

Clearly the writer is including himself in this passage "we" so the very first step in hermeneutic process 'gramatical' does not agree with your assessment!

Thank you. I was reading this passage today, and struggling with it. Thank you for this clear opening up of the wording and tenses.

Peterlag · April 5, 2021

2 hours ago, David1701 said:

You are completely wrong!

1 John 1:5-10 (EMTV)

5 And this is the message which we have heard from Him and we announce to you, that God is light and in Him there is no darkness at all.
6 If we claim to have fellowship with Him, and we are walking in the darkness, we are lying, and are not practicing the truth.
7 But if we are walking in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we claim that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we claim that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

This general epistle of John was written to BELIEVERS, not only that but John speaks of "we" (i.e. including himself and believers in general) - "...if WE are walking in the light...", "...WE have fellowship with one another...", "...the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses US from all sin.", "If WE claim that we have no sin, WE are deceiving OURSELVES, and the truth is not in US.", "If WE confess OUR sins...".

I see it this way...

Chapter 1
6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:"
6. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

7 "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
7. In him because we are saved and have put on the new man.

8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
8. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
9. In him because we are saved and have put on the new man.

10 "If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
10. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

Chapter 2
1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"
1. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

2 "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
2. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

3 "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments."
3. In him because we are saved and have put on the new man.

4 "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
4. Not in him because we are either not saved or have not put on the new man.

5 "But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him."
5. In him because we are saved and have put on the new man.

6 "He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."
6. In him because we are saved and have put on the new man.

Peterlag · April 5, 2021

2 hours ago, clancy said:

How can we have sin in our hearts ,if the Holy Spirit indwells us...we can’t.

Do you think it’s our flesh and will that we fight against the Holy Spirit....I know my will fought against Gods Will at times,looking back?

It does say that flesh and spirit are in a battle doesn’t it.?