Obedience Comes by Fear, but Faith by Hearing!

[JustClay]

4 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

What about those who do not, respect, obey and submit to the word of God, but say that are believers?

Hi @Bro.Tan....  I’m so glad I don’t have to judge, but I would guess that they have yet to truly understand what love is.  Maybe the work in them has barely begun.  Maybe they need mentoring.  Maybe they never had good parenting.  Maybe they are imposters among the true believers, but as long as they are in the company of true believers and exposed to good teaching, there is hope.  

To me, love is the key to obedience—love with the help of the Holy Spirit.  Jesus Himself makes this clear:

John 14:15-18   (NKJV)

15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

4 hours ago, Arrabon said:

God has a balance of love and expectations

Hi @Arrabon.... yes, our Father always loves us, but almost all His promises are conditional upon obedience—for our own good.  We will always be blessed in some way when we obey. 

[Arrabon]

48 minutes ago, JustClay said:

Hi @Arrabon.... yes, our Father always loves us, but almost all His promises are conditional upon obedience—for our own good.  We will always be blessed in some way when we obey. 

@JustClay

  One of the many things I love so much about my faith and about God, is that most of us start out in our faith doing what we learn we should do. A kind of "LEGALISM" and "RULE KEEPING," to begin with.

A kind of "ROTE" actions.

rote 1

The Free Dictionary

  (rōt)

n.

1. A memorizing process using routine or repetition, often without full attention or comprehension: learn by rote.

2. Mechanical routine.

 

But...........over time, for me, I started wanting more than that.

I started wanting to feel a closeness with God, and I wanted to have a genuine and authentic "relationship" with Him beyond "ROTE."

Something very personal.

Beyond doing because I "SHOULD," beyond because I'm "RESPONSIBLE" to do something. 

I was at a place in my faith where the things I knew God said to do, I wanted to do, because I loved Him and was grateful to Him for my whole life, and I wanted to show Him how I felt, not because I should, or had to, but because I LOVED all that He was, and is to me.

PRAISE THE LORD FOR THE GREAT GOD WE ARE ALLOWED TO LOVE AND SERVE.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Arrabon

[Who me]

19 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

As individual some of us may do what thus said the Lord. But as a nations of people it's not the case

 

It might come as a surprise to you, but Jesus, in the gospels, only spoke to individuals. There are no speeches or pronouncements address to the nation of Israel, to the Roman empire or to any other nations.

Jesus addressed people.

 

Jesus through us still only addresses people as individuals.

 

There is a reason for this. Nations are made up of people.

[Bro.Tan]

8 hours ago, Who me said:

 

It might come as a surprise to you, but Jesus, in the gospels, only spoke to individuals. There are no speeches or pronouncements address to the nation of Israel, to the Roman empire or to any other nations.

Jesus addressed people.

 

Jesus through us still only addresses people as individuals.

 

There is a reason for this. Nations are made up of people.

 

Let take a look and see if Jesus taught another nation of people and not just individuals.

 

Let's go to John 4: 5 Then cometh he to a city of Samaria, which is called Sychar, near to the parcel of ground that Jacob gave to his son Joseph. 6 Now Jacob's well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well: and it was about the sixth hour. 7 There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink. 8(For his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat.)

Let's skip for time sake

21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. 25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. 26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

28 The woman then left her waterpot, and went her way into the city, and saith to the men, 29 Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ? 30 Then they went out of the city, and came unto him.

39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did. 40 So when the Samaritans were come unto him, they besought him that he would tarry with them: and he abode there two days. 41 And many more believed because of his own word; 42 and said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.

 

So Jesus taught the samaritans for two days which were another nation of people. But I believe you missing the real point of this little lesson about.

 

 

[Bro.Tan]

23 hours ago, missmuffet said:

They are counterfeit believers and they will not go to heaven.

That maybe the case, hopefully people change, like Solomon says in Ecclesiastes 9: 4 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion. 

[Bro.Tan]

On 5/27/2021 at 11:59 AM, Who me said:

Is that really what God wants from Christians?

Not really, in the scriptures it's written in Ezekiel 18: 23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

 

 

On 5/27/2021 at 11:59 AM, Who me said:

Why did Jesus say,' If you Love Me, you will Obey my commandments. ' ?

 

 

Because those that really love him actually learn of him and keeps his commandments. Let's go to Deuteronomy 30: 10 if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.

11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

 

15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; 16 in that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. 

 

17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; 18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.

 

 

 

 

[Bro.Tan]

Let’s go into Revelation 2: 12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges; 13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth. 14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication. 15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate. 16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. 

17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it. 

The Nicolaitans have taken it upon themselves to declare they are God’s priest but they aren’t.

Nico means conquer and Laitans (Laity) people

The church in Pergamos is the Roman Catholicism and the doctrine of Balaam corrupt the people. 

Let’s go to Revelation 13: 1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. 4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? 

Now in Daniel 7: 1-8 he breaks down the Seven heads, which are the Gentile dynasty.

 

Let's take a look at some situation that happen by not pay attention to protocol. These little details are very important to understand.

Let’s go into 1 Chronicles 13: 6 And David went up, and all Israel, to Baalah, that is, to Kirjath-jearim, which belonged to Judah, to bring up thence the ark of God the LORD, that dwelleth between the cherubims, whose name is called on it. 7 And they carried the ark of God in a new cart out of the house of Abinadab: and Uzza and Ahio drave the cart. 8 And David and all Israel played before God with all their might, and with singing, and with harps, and with psalteries, and with timbrels, and with cymbals, and with trumpets. 9 And when they came unto the threshingfloor of Chidon, Uzza put forth his hand to hold the ark; for the oxen stumbled. 10 And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzza, and he smote him, because he put his hand to the ark: and there he died before God. 11 And David was displeased, because the LORD had made a breach upon Uzza: wherefore that place is called Perez-uzza to this day. 12 And David was afraid of God that day, saying, How shall I bring the ark of God home to me? 13 So David brought not the ark home to himself to the city of David, but carried it aside into the house of Obed-edom the Gittite. 14 And the ark of God remained with the family of Obed-edom in his house three months. And the LORD blessed the house of Obed-edom, and all that he had. 

Let’s skip right over to 1 Chronicles 15: 1 And David made him houses in the city of David, and prepared a place for the ark of God, and pitched for it a tent. 2 Then David said, None ought to carry the ark of God but the Levites: for them hath the LORD chosen to carry the ark of God, and to minister unto him for ever. 11 And David called for Zadok and Abiathar the priests, and for the Levites, for Uriel, Asaiah, and Joel, Shemaiah, and Eliel, and Amminadab, 12 and said unto them, Ye are the chief of the fathers of the Levites: sanctify yourselves, both ye and your brethren, that ye may bring up the ark of the LORD God of Israel unto the place that I have prepared for it. 13 For because ye did it not at the first, the LORD our God made a breach upon us, for that we sought him not after the due order. 14 So the priests and the Levites sanctified themselves to bring up the ark of the LORD God of Israel. 15 And the children of the Levites bare the ark of God upon their shoulders with the staves thereon, as Moses commanded according to the word of the LORD.

Another situation...

Let’s go into Number 21: 4 And they journeyed from mount Hor by the way of the Red sea, to compass the land of Edom: and the soul of the people was much discouraged because of the way. 5 And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread. 6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died. 7 Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people. 8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live. 9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived. 10 And the children of Israel set forward, and pitched in Oboth. 

So we see that the people who had faith (Belief) in what God told Moses, looked upon the serpent of brass and was healed. Those who didn’t look died, because of no faith.

another situation...

 

Let’t take a look Jonah 1: 1 Now the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the son of Amittai, saying, 2 Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry against it; for their wickedness is come up before me. 3 But Jonah rose up to flee unto Tarshish from the presence of the LORD, and went down to Joppa; and he found a ship going to Tarshish: so he paid the fare thereof, and went down into it, to go with them unto Tarshish from the presence of the LORD. 4 But the LORD sent out a great wind into the sea, and there was a mighty tempest in the sea, so that the ship was like to be broken. 5 Then the mariners were afraid, and cried every man unto his god, and cast forth the wares that were in the ship into the sea, to lighten it of them. But Jonah was gone down into the sides of the ship; and he lay, and was fast asleep. 6 So the shipmaster came to him, and said unto him, What meanest thou, O sleeper? arise, call upon thy God, if so be that God will think upon us, that we perish not. 7 And they said every one to his fellow, Come, and let us cast lots, that we may know for whose cause this evil is upon us. So they cast lots, and the lot fell upon Jonah. 8 Then said they unto him, Tell us, we pray thee, for whose cause this evil is upon us; What is thine occupation? and whence comest thou? what is thy country? and of what people art thou? 9 And he said unto them, I am an Hebrew; and I fear the LORD, the God of heaven, which hath made the sea and the dry land. 10 Then were the men exceedingly afraid, and said unto him, Why hast thou done this? For the men knew that he fled from the presence of the LORD, because he had told them. 11 Then said they unto him, What shall we do unto thee, that the sea may be calm unto us? for the sea wrought, and was tempestuous. 12 And he said unto them, Take me up, and cast me forth into the sea; so shall the sea be calm unto you: for I know that for my sake this great tempest is upon you.  5 So they took up Jonah, and cast him forth into the sea: and the sea ceased from her raging. 16 Then the men feared the LORD exceedingly, and offered a sacrifice unto the LORD, and made vows. 17 Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

Now Nineveh is the Assyria, they took out the 9 tribes of Israel from Samaria. The 10th tribe, Levi returned ti Judah. So Jonah tried to flee from God’s commandment to go to Nineveh, but we see that you can’t hide from God.

Let’s continue in Jonah 2: 1 Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly, 10 And the LORD spake unto the fish, and it vomited out Jonah upon the dry land.

Let’s continue in Jonah 3: 1 And the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the second time, saying, 2 Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee. 3 So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days' journey. 4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown. 5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them. 

6 For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes. 7 And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water: 8 but let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands. 9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not? 10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not. 

So out of fear of the Lord, Jonah went to Nineveh to warn the people there, and out of faith (belief) in God’s word and fear, the people of Nineveh repented and God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

 

 

to be continue...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Who me]

4 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

Not really, in the scriptures it's written in Ezekiel 18: 23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

 

 

Just because God is compassionate and loving does not mean that he is weak or wishy washy.

 

Through out the bible he has made it clear that there are consquences following disobedience and ultimately that means judgement and punishment by an eternity of separation from the source of all goodness.

[Bro.Tan]

18 hours ago, Who me said:

 

Just because God is compassionate and loving does not mean that he is weak or wishy washy.

 

Through out the bible he has made it clear that there are consquences following disobedience and ultimately that means judgement and punishment by an eternity of separation from the source of all goodness.

 Did you read the lesson from the beginning to the last point? 

 

 

[Bro.Tan]

Let’s go to Proverbs 16: 2 All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; But the LORD weigheth the spirits. 3 Commit thy works unto the LORD, And thy thoughts shall be established. 5 Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD: Though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished. 6 By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: And by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.

The spirits in this text is the thoughts of your mind and iniquity is sin. 

Let’s go to Malachi 1: 6 A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the LORD of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name? 7 Ye offer polluted bread upon mine altar; and ye say, Wherein have we polluted thee? In that ye say, The table of the LORD is contemptible. 8 And if ye offer the blind for sacrifice, is it not evil? and if ye offer the lame and sick, is it not evil? offer it now unto thy governor; will he be pleased with thee, or accept thy person? saith the LORD of hosts. 9 And now, I pray you, beseech God that he will be gracious unto us: this hath been by your means: will he regard your persons? saith the LORD of hosts. 

10 Who is there even among you that would shut the doors for nought? neither do ye kindle fire on mine altar for nought. I have no pleasure in you, saith the LORD of hosts, neither will I accept an offering at your hand. 11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts. 12 But ye have profaned it, in that ye say, The table of the LORD is polluted; and the fruit thereof, even his meat, is contemptible. 14 But cursed be the deceiver, which hath in his flock a male, and voweth, and sacrificeth unto the Lord a corrupt thing: for I am a great King, saith the LORD of hosts, and my name is dreadful among the heathen.

Let’s continue in Malachi 2: 1 And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you. 2 If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name, saith the LORD of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart. 

Many among Israel despise the name Jesus and won’t acknowledge it. 

 

Let’s go into Deuteronomy 4: 1 Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you. 9 Only take heed to thyself, and keep thy soul diligently, lest thou forget the things which thine eyes have seen, and lest they depart from thy heart all the days of thy life: but teach them thy sons, and thy sons' sons; 

10 specially the day that thou stoodest before the LORD thy God in Horeb, when the LORD said unto me, Gather me the people together, and I will make them hear my words, that they may learn to fear me all the days that they shall live upon the earth, and that they may teach their children. 

 

The word of God is our wisdom and understanding in the sight of the nation, but we cast it away as a people and ended up in captivity. Today, we are waking up and learning about our God again. If you fear God you will keep his commandments. 

 

Let’s go into Ecclesiastes 12: 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Now this our duty which is our responsibility and obligation.

 

Let’s go into Revelation 20: 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. 

So we see how works play a very very important part in life Brothers and Sisters. 

Let’s go into Proverbs 14: 15 The simple believeth every word: But the prudent man looketh well to his going. 16 A wise man feareth, and departeth from evil: But the fool rageth, and is confident.

The Simple is the mature person and the prudent is wise and discreet and very careful, but the person fool that rageth is fume with fury, rant and rave.

 

Let’s go into Job 28: 1 Surely there is a vein for the silver, And a place for gold where they fine it. 2 Iron is taken out of the earth, And brass is molten out of the stone. 12 But where shall wisdom be found? And where is the place of understanding? 13 Man knoweth not the price thereof; Neither is it found in the land of the living. 20 Whence then cometh wisdom? And where is the place of understanding?  23 God understandeth the way thereof, And he knoweth the place thereof. 24 For he looketh to the ends of the earth, And seeth under the whole heaven; 25 To make the weight for the winds; And he weigheth the waters by measure. 26 When he made a decree for the rain, And a way for the lightning of the thunder: 27 Then did he see it, and declare it; He prepared it, yea, and searched it out. 28 And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; And to depart from evil is understanding. 

 

If you want to be wise, then read and study the Word of God from Genesis to Revelation and fear him and depart from evil.