Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture

[Psalms37:4]

3 minutes ago, inchrist said:

What part of four winds and from one end to the other end of Heaven referring to the four corners of earth and under the sky do you not understand?

Still sticking the foot in the mouth. You must think the size of heaven is a tiny 2 x 4 box. You'll be surprise how much bigger heaven is compared to earth.

Question: "What does the Bible mean when it refers to the four winds?"

Answer: Wind is frequently used in the Bible as a metaphor for some spiritual truth (e.g., Psalm 78:39 and Jeremiah 22:22). This holds true when the Bible refers to the “four winds.” The phrase “four winds” is used principally to describe the whole of the earth or heaven. The “four winds” encompass all directions or the “four corners” of the earth: north, south, east, and west (Jeremiah 49:36; Matthew 24:31).

https://www.gotquestions.org/four-winds.html

 

 

 

 

 

[Psalms37:4]

25 minutes ago, inchrist said:

The fact you still post the singular heaven after it has been showing to you by the word of God it is plural....is the very height of forcing scripture to bend to your opinion.

Where are you gonna find graves in the sky when the dead in Christ rises first?

Matthew 24:31 World English Bible (WEB)

³¹ He will send out his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together his chosen ones from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Psalms37:4]

1 hour ago, inchrist said:

Your understanding of phrase one end of the sky to the other is primitive.

Now that you are forced to show sky in the verse, we can move on to actually harmonizing scripture

Mark 13:27

And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heaven.

Since its been shown that the word heaven in Mark 13:27 is ouranou, a word that is shown to be used interchangeably for either SKY or GOD's abode, the question then is which one is to be used?

Since mark 13:27 and Matthew 24:31 is to be completely in sync and in harmony. WE cant assume God's abode, but rather have Matthew 24:31 assume it for us. The correct interpretation of Mark 13:27 ouranou is that of Matthew 24:31 SKY

Mark 13:27 - from the ends of the earth to the ends of the SKY.

Matthew 24:31 -  from one end of the sky to the other.

........................................................

Let's now deal with the phrase 

gather together his chosen ones from the four winds

since you've posted from your bible -Got Questions

So which one is it? Matthew 24:31 describing the whole earth or heaven (God's abode)?

Again same technique we can not assume the phrase “four winds” in Matthew 24:31 to be God's abode, but rather have Mark 13:27 assume it for us:

Mark 13:27 - four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the sky.

In Mark the context of the phrase four winds is the ends of the Earth & Sky.

Earth and sky are descriptions of the entire GLOBE we call planet EARTH, Mark completely eliminates God's abode of the third heaven beyond the cosmos in the phrase four winds. 

Since mark 13:27 and Matthew 24:31 is to be completely in sync and in harmony, the correct interpretation of Matthew 24:31 is as follows:

Mark 13:27 - he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds (Earth and SKY = Global Earth)

Matthew 24:31 - and they will gather together his chosen ones from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. (Earth and SKY = GLOBAL Earth)

In short Mark and Matthew are telling us the following:

Mark 13:27 - And he will send his angels and gather his elect from around the globe from one end to the other

Matthew 24:31 - He will send out his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together his chosen ones from around the globe from one end to the other

In no instances is either Mark or Matthew talking about a gathering of saints from Gods abode....you have presented YOUR forced opinion into scripture changing the VERY WORD of God to uphold your opinion higher than scripture, hence you been caught out.

 

Where are you gonna find graves in the sky when the dead in Christ rises first?

Matthew 24:31 World English Bible (WEB)

³¹ He will send out his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together his chosen ones from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Must be hard question to answer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Psalms37:4]

48 minutes ago, inchrist said:

You find graves throughout the globe from one end  of the sky to the other. 

Must be a hard concept  for you to grasp

Completely false and promoting destructive heresy. Your teachings are sinister and destructive to those who are young in their knowledge of the gospel and prophecies. 

Readers beware!

Romans 16:17-18 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹⁷ Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. ¹⁸ For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple.

Acts 20:29 New King James Version (NKJV)

²⁹ For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.

Ephesians 5:11 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹¹ And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.

2 John 10 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹⁰ If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Psalms37:4]

1 hour ago, inchrist said:

Must be a hard concept  for you to grasp

In the rapture, the church is greeted by Jesus.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹⁶ For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. ¹⁷ Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

 

In Matthew 24:31, the elects meets the angels, not Jesus.

Matthew 24:31 New King James Version (NKJV)

³¹ And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

Why doesn't Jesus meet the elects in the air in Matthew 24:31? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2017 by Psalms37:4

[Psalms37:4]

22 hours ago, inchrist said:

Why  do you assume he doesn't ? simply because it's not mentioned in Matthew 24:31?

You're either not getting it or you do but simply refuse to acknowledge what the bible tells us. Let me rephrase it. 

In Matthew 24:31, the angels does the gathering. In the rapture, 1 Thes 4:16-17, Jesus does the gathering. You just assume they're the same.

 

In the rapture, the church is greeted by Jesus.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹⁶ For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. ¹⁷ Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

 

In Matthew 24:31, the elects meets the angels, not Jesus.

Matthew 24:31 New King James Version (NKJV)

³¹ And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

 

22 hours ago, inchrist said:

Yet Matthew 24:31 shows the angels collecting the elects from around the globe to jesus; who as you well know is in the air.

Jesus might be in the air when He sends His angels to gather His elects from heaven and earth, but He's certainly not in the air when they reach Him in Jerusalem.

In the rapture, Jesus meets His elects in the air but at the second coming, Jesus meets His elects on earth in Jerusalem.

Zechariah 14:4-5 New King James Version (NKJV)

⁴ And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
⁵ Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.

Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You.

Now if there's a post-trib rapture during the second coming, why does it say His saints are fleeing? In a rapture, shouldn't Christians be flying in the air to Jesus instead? This version of the second coming also shows Jesus meeting the saints on the Mount of Olives, not in the air in the rapture found in 1 Thes 4:16-17.

They are clearly traveling on land by foot as described in Zechariah 14:4-5.

inchrist, how do you get a post-trib rapture when the elects on earth are traveling to Jesus by foot at the second coming?

 

 

Below are more scriptures on the remnant of Israel being gather after the tribulation, do you see anyone flying in the air or anyone being caught up to meet Jesus in the air?

Ezekiel 39:21-29 New King James Version (NKJV)

²¹ “I will set My glory among the nations; all the nations shall see My judgment which I have executed, and My hand which I have laid on them. ²² So the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day forward. ²³ The Gentiles shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity; because they were unfaithful to Me, therefore I hid My face from them. I gave them into the hand of their enemies, and they all fell by the sword. ²⁴ According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions I have dealt with them, and hidden My face from them.”’

²⁵ “Therefore thus says the Lord God: ‘Now I will bring back the captives of Jacob, and have mercy on the whole house of Israel; and I will be jealous for My holy name— ²⁶ after they have borne their shame, and all their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, when they dwelt safely in their own land and no one made them afraid. ²⁷ When I have brought them back from the peoples and gathered them out of their enemies’ lands, and I am hallowed in them in the sight of many nations, ²⁸ then they shall know that I am the Lord their God, who sent them into captivity among the nations, but also brought them back to their land, and left none of them captive any longer. ²⁹ And I will not hide My face from them anymore; for I shall have poured out My Spirit on the house of Israel,’ says the Lord God.”

 

Isaiah 49:8-26 New King James Version (NKJV)

⁸ Thus says the Lord:

“In an acceptable time I have heard You,
And in the day of salvation I have helped You;
I will preserve You and give You
As a covenant to the people,
To restore the earth,
To cause them to inherit the desolate heritages;
⁹ That You may say to the prisoners, ‘Go forth,’
To those who are in darkness, ‘Show yourselves.’

“They shall feed along the roads,
And their pastures shall be on all desolate heights.
¹⁰ They shall neither hunger nor thirst,
Neither heat nor sun shall strike them;
For He who has mercy on them will lead them,
Even by the springs of water He will guide them.
¹¹ I will make each of My mountains a road,
And My highways shall be elevated.
¹² Surely these shall come from afar;
Look! Those from the north and the west,
And these from the land of Sinim.”

¹³ Sing, O heavens!
Be joyful, O earth!
And break out in singing, O mountains!
For the Lord has comforted His people,
And will have mercy on His afflicted.

¹⁴ But Zion said, “The Lord has forsaken me,
And my Lord has forgotten me.”
¹⁵ “Can a woman forget her nursing child,
And not have compassion on the son of her womb?
Surely they may forget,
Yet I will not forget you.
¹⁶ See, I have inscribed you on the palms of My hands;
Your walls are continually before Me.
¹⁷ Your sons shall make haste;
Your destroyers and those who laid you waste
Shall go away from you.
¹⁸ Lift up your eyes, look around and see;
All these gather together and come to you.
As I live,” says the Lord,
“You shall surely clothe yourselves with them all as an ornament,
And bind them on you as a bride does.

¹⁹ “For your waste and desolate places,
And the land of your destruction,
Will even now be too small for the inhabitants;
And those who swallowed you up will be far away.
²⁰ The children you will have,
After you have lost the others,
Will say again in your ears,
‘The place is too small for me;
Give me a place where I may dwell.’
²¹ Then you will say in your heart,
‘Who has begotten these for me,
Since I have lost my children and am desolate,
A captive, and wandering to and fro?
And who has brought these up?
There I was, left alone;
But these, where were they?’”

²² Thus says the Lord God:

“Behold, I will lift My hand in an oath to the nations,
And set up My standard for the peoples;
They shall bring your sons in their arms,
And your daughters shall be carried on theirshoulders;
²³ Kings shall be your foster fathers,
And their queens your nursing mothers;
They shall bow down to you with their faces to the earth,
And lick up the dust of your feet.
Then you will know that I am the Lord,
For they shall not be ashamed who wait for Me.”

²⁴ Shall the prey be taken from the mighty,
Or the captives of the righteous be delivered?

²⁵ But thus says the Lord:

“Even the captives of the mighty shall be taken away,
And the prey of the terrible be delivered;
For I will contend with him who contends with you,
And I will save your children.
²⁶ I will feed those who oppress you with their own flesh,
And they shall be drunk with their own blood as with sweet wine.
All flesh shall know
That I, the Lord, am your Savior,
And your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob.”

 

Jeremiah 32:37-42 New King James Version (NKJV)

³⁷ Behold, I will gather them out of all countries where I have driven them in My anger, in My fury, and in great wrath; I will bring them back to this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely. ³⁸ They shall be My people, and I will be their God; ³⁹ then I will give them one heart and one way, that they may fear Me forever, for the good of them and their children after them. ⁴⁰ And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from doing them good; but I will put My fear in their hearts so that they will not depart from Me. ⁴¹ Yes, I will rejoice over them to do them good, and I will assuredly plant them in this land, with all My heart and with all My soul.’

⁴² “For thus says the Lord: ‘Just as I have brought all this great calamity on this people, so I will bring on them all the good that I have promised them.

 

Isaiah 27:12-13 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹² And it shall come to pass in that day
That the Lord will thresh,
From the channel of the River to the Brook of Egypt;
And you will be gathered one by one,
O you children of Israel.

¹³ So it shall be in that day:
The great trumpet will be blown;
They will come, who are about to perish in the land of Assyria,
And they who are outcasts in the land of Egypt,
And shall worship the Lord in the holy mount at Jerusalem.

 

Zephaniah 3:8-20 New King James Version (NKJV)

⁸ “Therefore wait for Me,” says the Lord,
“Until the day I rise up for plunder;
My determination is to gather the nations
To My assembly of kingdoms,
To pour on them My indignation,
All My fierce anger;
All the earth shall be devoured
With the fire of My jealousy.
⁹ “For then I will restore to the peoples a pure language,
That they all may call on the name of the Lord,
To serve Him with one accord.
¹⁰ From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia
My worshipers,
The daughter of My dispersed ones,
Shall bring My offering.
¹¹ In that day you shall not be shamed for any of your deeds
In which you transgress against Me;
For then I will take away from your midst
Those who rejoice in your pride,
And you shall no longer be haughty
In My holy mountain.
¹² I will leave in your midst
A meek and humble people,
And they shall trust in the name of the Lord.
¹³ The remnant of Israel shall do no unrighteousness
And speak no lies,
Nor shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth;
For they shall feed their flocks and lie down,
And no one shall make them afraid.”

¹⁴ Sing, O daughter of Zion!
Shout, O Israel!
Be glad and rejoice with all your heart,
O daughter of Jerusalem!
¹⁵ The Lord has taken away your judgments,
He has cast out your enemy.
The King of Israel, the Lord, is in your midst;
You shall see disaster no more.

¹⁶ In that day it shall be said to Jerusalem:
“Do not fear;
Zion, let not your hands be weak.
¹⁷ The Lord your God in your midst,
The Mighty One, will save;
He will rejoice over you with gladness,
He will quiet you with His love,
He will rejoice over you with singing.”

¹⁸ “I will gather those who sorrow over the appointed assembly,
Who are among you,
To whom its reproach is a burden.
¹⁹ Behold, at that time
I will deal with all who afflict you;
I will save the lame,
And gather those who were driven out;
I will appoint them for praise and fame
In every land where they were put to shame.
²⁰ At that time I will bring you back,
Even at the time I gather you;
For I will give you fame and praise
Among all the peoples of the earth,
When I return your captives before your eyes,”
Says the Lord.

 

Micah 2:12 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹² “I will surely assemble all of you, O Jacob,
I will surely gather the remnant of Israel;
I will put them together like sheep of the fold,
Like a flock in the midst of their pasture;
They shall make a loud noise because of so many people.

 

Jeremiah 50:4-5 New King James Version (NKJV)

⁴ “In those days and in that time,” says the Lord,
“The children of Israel shall come,
They and the children of Judah together;
With continual weeping they shall come,
And seek the Lord their God.
⁵ They shall ask the way to Zion,
With their faces toward it, saying,
‘Come and let us join ourselves to the Lord
In a perpetual covenant
That will not be forgotten.’

 

Psalm 106:46-47 New King James Version (NKJV)

⁴⁶ He also made them to be pitied
By all those who carried them away captive.

⁴⁷ Save us, O Lord our God,
And gather us from among the Gentiles,
To give thanks to Your holy name,
To triumph in Your praise.

 

Amos 9:11-15 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹¹ “On that day I will raise up
The tabernacle of David, which has fallen down,
And repair its damages;
I will raise up its ruins,
And rebuild it as in the days of old;
¹² That they may possess the remnant of Edom,
And all the Gentiles who are called by My name,”
Says the Lord who does this thing.

¹³ “Behold, the days are coming,” says the Lord,
“When the plowman shall overtake the reaper,
And the treader of grapes him who sows seed;
The mountains shall drip with sweet wine,
And all the hills shall flow with it.
¹⁴ I will bring back the captives of My people Israel;
They shall build the waste cities and inhabitthem;
They shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them;
They shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them.
¹⁵ I will plant them in their land,
And no longer shall they be pulled up
From the land I have given them,”
Says the Lord your God.

 

[Psalms37:4]

22 hours ago, inchrist said:

False accusation; you are the one caught  changing Gods word and forcing your own interpretation.

No where in any of my attempt of interpretating Mark and matthew did I use my own thoughts; 

Oh really? So you didn't post this yesterday telling us the dead in Christ are buried in the sky all over the world??

23 hours ago, inchrist said:

You find graves throughout the globe from one end  of the sky to the other. 

You're already caught in the act with your hands in the cookie jar and now you're trying to cover this up too.

 

22 hours ago, inchrist said:

I used your links you provided and a process of elemintion compared to your thoughts to that of mark and Matthew. 

Why don't you just tell the people the truth. You took this link and twist it around trying to make it say what you want people to believe. This link is trying to tell you the four winds represent the 4 cardinal directions: north south east and west of heaven or earth. 

Question: "What does the Bible mean when it refers to the four winds?"

Answer: Wind is frequently used in the Bible as a metaphor for some spiritual truth (e.g., Psalm 78:39 and Jeremiah 22:22). This holds true when the Bible refers to the “four winds.” The phrase “four winds” is used principally to describe the whole of the earth or heaven. The “four winds” encompass all directions or the “four corners” of the earth: north, south, east, and west (Jeremiah 49:36; Matthew 24:31).

https://www.gotquestions.org/four-winds.html

 

 

22 hours ago, inchrist said:

There is nothing sinister in correcting you; you are not above correction, nor do you resemble anything that remotely  suggest you are Christian. 

You haven't done any correcting whatsoever. All you been doing is use the bible to promote your own ideas. 

1) Did you not claim Christ has two brides?

2) Did you not claim Matthew 24:36 does "not" mean no man knows the day and hour? 

3) Did you not claim the rapture and second coming happens at the 7th trumpet?

4) And just yesterday, did you not claim the dead in Christ in 1 Thes 4:16 are buried in the sky saying:

"You find graves throughout the globe from one end  of the sky to the other."

 

I've been the one correcting you around here telling you you're wrong.

 

22 hours ago, inchrist said:

I would demand you remove you name Psalm 37:4 as there is nothing in you that delights  in the Lord. 

And now you're in violation of the 9th commandment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Psalms37:4]

On 10/1/2017 at 8:31 AM, inchrist said:

Further in Mark, the context of the phrase four winds is the ends of the Earth & Sky. This is a phrase to describe the globe

In short Mark and Matthew are telling us the following:

Mark 13:27 - And he will send his angels and gather his elect from around the globe from one end to the other

Which translation is this? Are you fabricating scriptures again?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Psalms37:4]

22 minutes ago, inchrist said:

You really do battle interpreting scriptures dont you

Are you gonna answer the question or dilly dally like always when confronted with this question? Are you manipulating the bible again?

 

On 10/1/2017 at 12:11 PM, inchrist said:

Where does it state Christ does the gathering all by himself?

16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

All it states is Christ himself comes down personally from heaven; no where does it state he comes alone and gathers the elect alone by himself. You are blatantly fabricating a difference when there is none.

And where in the bible does it say Christ has two brides? So what's your point?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Psalms37:4]

14 minutes ago, inchrist said:

Clearly you didnt read what I said

In short Mark and Matthew are telling us the following

Like I said you seem to not grasp or understand what interpretation is.

On 10/1/2017 at 8:31 AM, inchrist said:

Further in Mark, the context of the phrase four winds is the ends of the Earth & Sky. This is a phrase to describe the globe

In short Mark and Matthew are telling us the following:

Mark 13:27 - And he will send his angels and gather his elect from around the globe from one end to the other

 

Again, what bible translation on Mark 13:27 is this from?

What translation actually say: And he will send his angels and gather his elect from around the globe from one end to the other

 

 

14 minutes ago, inchrist said:

you can start here

 It shone with the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. ¹² It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. 

Then you can move on here

You are not my people,' they will be called 'children of the living God.'

It doesn't say Christ has two brides here. Again, what's your point?