Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture

[Montana Marv]

6 minutes ago, Amazing Horse said:

Question to pre-tribbers only .

What do you do with your animals this feast of trumpets ? Should i provide 7 year supply of food for my cat or let it die faster so they don't eat him when famine hits . I really like my cat and don't want him to suffer .

What would you do when a forest fire is at your door, take you spouse or your animals.  Your question is irrelevant.  Who would take care of your pets if you and all your family died in an automobile accident?

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Montana Marv]

9 hours ago, inchrist said:

No Ammonite or Moabite or any of their descendants may enter the assembly of the LORD, not even in the tenth generation.

 

Ruth could not be a Moabite because that would make David a moabite by bloodline and he was 3rd generation to enter the assembly of God.

 

Further to this, the Israelites conquered the land of Moab, killing all the people found there.  Deuteronomy 2:32-34, Israelites advanced also northward into the land of Ammon,Numbers 21:33-35 and left none alive there

The first thing is with your view or Ruth, She was a Moabite woman as Scripture says.  Read her confession to Naomi in 1:16;  Where you will go, I will go, where you stay I will stay, Your people will be my people and your God my God.  Ruth became a Jew by faith.

Again look at Deut 2:28b-29a - Only let us pass through on foot as the descendants of Esau, who live in Seir, and the Moabites, who live in Ar did for us.  It is the Amorites who were completely destroyed.  Moab was taken over by the king of the Amorites.  And he took the sons and daughters of Moab captive.  Israel took the Amorites plunder, which would include the sons and daughters of Moab.

Now Ephraim received an inheritance of land as the other tribes did.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Psalms37:4]

18 hours ago, inchrist said:

No i said the following.... Companions to the House of Ephraim [Christianity] are gentile converts to Christianity.

the companions of Ephraim are gentile ethnicities.

Ephraim is hebrew ethnicity, however Ephraim mixes with gentiles.Hosea 7:8

It's in their nature, hence Ephraims gentile companions

How do you know from reading Hosea 7 the people Ephraim mingled with are Christians? Hosea 7 said they're Assyrians and Egyptians. Assyrians and Egyptians are muslims nations. It even said in verse 16 Ephraim has turned to a false god. 

If the people Ephraim mixed with are actually Christian nations, don't you think God with be pleased instead of being angry at Ephraim this entire chapter. You're just so lost on this topic.

Just to be sure you understand Hosea 7, these are not Christians Ephraim mixed with.

Hosea 7:8-16 Good News Translation (GNT)

⁸ The Lord says, “The people of Israel are like a half-baked loaf of bread. They rely on the nations around them ⁹ and do not realize that this reliance on foreigners has robbed them of their strength. Their days are numbered, but they don't even know it. ¹⁰ The arrogance of the people of Israel cries out against them. In spite of everything that has happened, they have not returned to me, the Lord their God. ¹¹ Israel flits around like a silly pigeon; first her people call on Egypt for help, and then they run to Assyria! ¹² But I will spread out a net and catch them like birds as they go by. I will punish them for the evil they have done.

¹³ “They are doomed! They have left me and rebelled against me. They will be destroyed. I wanted to save them, but their worship of me was false. ¹⁴ They have not prayed to me sincerely, but instead they throw themselves down and wail as the heathen do. When they pray for grain and wine, they gash themselves like pagans. What rebels they are! ¹⁵ Even though I was the one who brought them up and made them strong, they plotted against me. ¹⁶ They keep on turning away from me to a god that is powerless. They are as unreliable as a crooked bow. Because their leaders talk arrogantly, they will die a violent death, and the Egyptians will laugh.”

 

Apparently this didn't work out as planned it. You're gonna have to find another way to prove Judah and Ephraim are Christ's bride. 

First try proving the the house of Israel (Ephraim) had actually returned to the holy land since the Assyrian exile some 2750 years ago. Here's a hint. How could Ephraim had accepted or rejected Christ if they were never in Israel to hear the gospel during the first advent?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2017 by Psalms37:4

[Psalms37:4]

11 hours ago, Amazing Horse said:

Question to pre-tribbers only .

What do you do with your animals this feast of trumpets ? Should i provide 7 year supply of food for my cat or let it die faster so they don't eat him when famine hits . I really like my cat and don't want him to suffer .

Sorry Horse. I don't have a pet. Use to have a cat during college but that was a long time ago. If she was with me today, I probably take her to the animal shelter before the rapture hits. 

[Montana Marv]

Ephraim has nothing to do with Naomi. Both Boaz and Naomi were from the tribe of Judah. Kinsman Redeemer yes. But nothing to do with Ephraim.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Montana Marv]

5 hours ago, inchrist said:

Yes but boaz didnt marry noami did he?

Never said he did.   The book of Ruth shows the illustration of how the 'Kinsman Redeemer" came into play to show the linage of Jesus Christ.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Psalms37:4]

18 hours ago, inchrist said:

No Im afraid its yourself.....

Ephraims inheritance.

But his father refused and said, "I know, my son, I know. He too will become a people, and he too will become great. Nevertheless, his younger brother will be greater than he, and his descendants will become a group of nations

 

Ephraim to be gathered  

See, I will bring them from the land of the north
    and gather them from the ends of the earth.
Among them will be the blind and the lame,
    expectant mothers and women in labor;
    a great throng will return.
9 They will come with weeping;
    they will pray as I bring them back.
I will lead them beside streams of water
    on a level path where they will not stumble,
because I am Israel’s father,
    and Ephraim is my firstborn son.

Well you're the one who brought up Hosea 7 about Ephraim.

Anyone can pull out a couple of scriptures about Ephraim. Only someone lost would pull both scriptures out of context on Ephraim that has nothing to do with Hosea 7.

You're just so lost on this topic. It's pretty obvious you're trying to argue apples with coconuts.

 

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The scattering of Ephraim to Assyria and Egypt was only the start, they are to be scattered around the world, Assyria and Egypt are not the Ends of the earth is it? 

Well you're the one who brought up Hosea 7. You also said Ephraim mixed with the gentiles Christians. Now you're changing the subject from Ephraim mixed with gentiles Christians to Ephraim scattered around the world.

Now show me where in Hosea 7 does it say Ephraim was scattered to the ends of the earth. 

You're just so lost on this topic.

 

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You werent in Israel in Christs first advent? How did you hear the gospel?

One does not have to be in Israel in order to accept Christ....how mental.

Ephraim hasn't accepted the gospel yet. Don't you bother to read the scripture you're pushing? Read Hosea 7, Ephraim hasn't accept the gospel nor are they worshiping God.

You're just so lost on this topic. 

 

Hosea 7:8-16 Good News Translation (GNT)

⁸ The Lord says, “The people of Israel are like a half-baked loaf of bread. They rely on the nations around them ⁹ and do not realize that this reliance on foreigners has robbed them of their strength. Their days are numbered, but they don't even know it. ¹⁰ The arrogance of the people of Israel cries out against them. In spite of everything that has happened, they have not returned to me, the Lord their God. ¹¹ Israel flits around like a silly pigeon; first her people call on Egypt for help, and then they run to Assyria! ¹² But I will spread out a net and catch them like birds as they go by. I will punish them for the evil they have done.

¹³ “They are doomed! They have left me and rebelled against me. They will be destroyed. I wanted to save them, but their worship of me was false. ¹⁴ They have not prayed to me sincerely, but instead they throw themselves down and wail as the heathen do. When they pray for grain and wine, they gash themselves like pagans. What rebels they are! ¹⁵ Even though I was the one who brought them up and made them strong, they plotted against me. ¹⁶ They keep on turning away from me to a god that is powerless. They are as unreliable as a crooked bow. Because their leaders talk arrogantly, they will die a violent death, and the Egyptians will laugh.”

 

 

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I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.

How can Christ come for the lost sheep of Israel if Ephraim is scattered?

It means He came to save the Jewish people during His ministry, not yet the gentiles. At the end of His ministry, He told His disciples to go and make disciples of all nations. 

This isn't about the northern kingdom of Israel. God hasn't gather them back to Israel yet. Ephraim will be gather during the first year of the tribulation to return and help finish building the coming third temple.

 

Matthew 15:21-28 Good News Translation (GNT)

²¹ Jesus left that place and went off to the territory near the cities of Tyre and Sidon. ²² A Canaanite woman who lived in that region came to him. “Son of David!” she cried out. “Have mercy on me, sir! My daughter has a demon and is in a terrible condition.”

²³ But Jesus did not say a word to her. His disciples came to him and begged him, “Send her away! She is following us and making all this noise!”

²⁴ Then Jesus replied, “I have been sent only to the lost sheep of the people of Israel.”

²⁵ At this the woman came and fell at his feet. “Help me, sir!” she said.

²⁶ Jesus answered, “It isn't right to take the children's food and throw it to the dogs.”

²⁷ “That's true, sir,” she answered, “but even the dogs eat the leftovers that fall from their masters' table.”

²⁸ So Jesus answered her, “You are a woman of great faith! What you want will be done for you.” And at that very moment her daughter was healed.

 

Matthew 15:24 (CEB) Jesus replied, "I've been sent only to the lost sheep, the people of Israel."

Matthew 15:24 (GW) Jesus responded, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the nation of Israel."

Matthew 15:24 (MSG) Jesus refused, telling them, "I've got my hands full dealing with the lost sheep of Israel."

Matthew 15:24 (NCV) Jesus answered, "God sent me only to the lost sheep, the people of Israel."

Matthew 15:24 (NIRV) Jesus answered, "I was sent only to the people of Israel. They are like lost sheep."

Matthew 15:24 (NIV) He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

Matthew 15:24 (NLT) Then Jesus said to the woman, “I was sent only to help God’s lost sheep—the people of Israel.”

 

 

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Wait for it.....this will blow your mind.....

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

God made a plan didnt he?

So clearly Ephraim is to receive the gospel amongst the nations because it is to be sent out to the nations.....which nullifies your ridiculous position that "Ephrahim had to be in Israel to receive the gospel"

Ephraim hasn't been gathered yet. That's still future! Isaiah 11:11-16, Isaiah 10:20-23, Isaiah 14:1-2, Ezekiel 11:14-20, Ezekiel 16:22-27, Jeremiah 23:1-8, Jeremiah 30:1-4, Ezekiel 28:25-26, Ezekiel 37:15-23, Psalm 147:1-20.

Israel and Judah: When Will They Be Reunited?

https://lifehopeandtruth.com/prophecy/12-tribes-of-israel/israel-and-judah/

 

 

If Matthew 24:14 is about Ephraim, than explain this. Why did Jesus say the gospel will be preached to all nations just before the Abomination of Desolation in verse 15? 

Why would Christ say that in verse 14 and than mention the AoD in verse 15?

 

Matthew 24:14-21 New King James Version (NKJV)

¹⁴ And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

¹⁵ “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), ¹⁶ “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. ¹⁷ Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. ¹⁸ And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes.¹⁹ But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! ²⁰ And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath.²¹ For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

 

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Do you have any further questions regarding the logistical aspect of the Gospel to Ephraim?  

Yeah I do. How does all those scriptures you pulled out of the bible support your argument of Ephraim mixing with gentile Christians in Hosea 7?

 

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2017 by Psalms37:4

[Amazing Horse]

Feast of Trumpets starts today in Jerusalem time  18:58 ends 22th 18:35 . Look up

Edit.

I'm retarded and i can't cook so there is simple recipe for feast dish .

1) Get apples

2) Get honey

3) Put them like this , then you dip apple in honey

 

 

[Psalms37:4]

15 hours ago, inchrist said:

My God, you are so aweful at this....you are so confused in your own ball of wool.

A little reality check for you

I never said Eprahim is mxing with Christians in Hosea 7

I said

You never said "Ephraim is mixing with Christians in Hosea 7" in one sentence. But this is what you did say a few days ago. 

On 9/18/2017 at 9:32 AM, inchrist said:

No i said the following.... Companions to the House of Ephraim [Christianity] are gentile converts to Christianity.

the companions of Ephraim are gentile ethnicities.

Ephraim is hebrew ethnicity, however Ephraim mixes with gentiles.Hosea 7:8

It's in their nature, hence Ephraims gentile companions

 

 

15 hours ago, inchrist said:

In other words learn about their history

Earlier to that this is what I said

So where exactly did I change the subject?

You cant even keep up in our own conversation and some how I must explain to you how this all works?

Can you see why I must take baby steps for you, which I feel will still be complicated for you.....

this is what I said to you

Ephraim is hebrew ethnicity, however Ephraim mixes with gentiles.Hosea 7:8 It's in their nature, hence Ephraims gentile companions

The point of me referencing Hosea 7:8 is to illustrate Ephraims very nature.....to mix with the gentiles, they have been mixing with gentiles from the time of the Assyrians to present day. Mixing and mixing and mixing.

The mixing with the assyrians (was the start of their scattering) I never claimed they are mixing with Christians at this stage as Christ hasnt even popped on the scene yet for his first visit, how can they be mixing with Christians at this stage?.....over 2000 years have passed and they are still mixing around the world.

Do you get it now.....Must I still explain this to you....ok even more baby steps for you.

Part 1

Ephraim was born in Egypt

Baby step 1

In Egypt, Manasseh and Ephraim were born to Joseph by Asenath daughter of Potiphera, priest of On.

Ephraim was born in a gentile environment. Grew up in a gentile environment, its in the nature to be with gentiles .

Baby step 2

Joseph takes Manasseh and Ephraim to meet Jacob their grandfather

Baby step 3

Jacob blesses Ephraim

1: and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.

2:   Nevertheless, his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his offspring shall become a multitude of nations.”

This is called the double portion inheritance being the land of Israel and the nations.

In order for Ephraim to become a multitude of nations he would need to be scattered in order to become a multitude of nations.

Baby step 4

Ephraim becomes a large tribe in Israel, the nation splits in two, being the House of Judah and the House of Ephraim. 

Ephraim then decides to go mix with the nations because ITS IN THEIR NATURE and follow their gods Many Husbands .

Baby step 5

After much rebellion against God, Ephraim  was taken captive to Assyria(2Kin 17:6,18,23). The Majority of them were scattered among the nations (Hos 8:8, Jer 31:10).

At this stage we roll in the prophetic parable of the prodigal son.

Baby steps recapped 1 - 5

Luk 15:11  And he said, A certain man  Father God   had two sons  The two Houses of Israel – Hos 1:10,11

Luk 15:12  And the younger of them The Ephraim – Jer 31:20  said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.  God blessed them abundantly with their inheritance – Eze 35:15
Luk 15:13  And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living. Ephrahim mixes with the Gentiles and sinned against God, and was finally exiled – 2Kin 17:18
Luk 15:14  And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.  In Exile, The LORD will scatter you among the peoples, and only a few of you will survive among the nations to which the LORD will drive you.– Deut 4:27
Luk 15:15  And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.   There you will worship man-made gods of wood and stone, which cannot see or hear or eat or smell. – Deut 4:28
Luk 15:16  And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.  They will not remain in the LORD's land; Ephraim will return to Egypt and eat unclean food in Assyria. Hos 9:3

......................................

Now we start dealing with the conditions of Ephraim's heart

Baby step 6

It is prophesied by GOD himself that Ephraim will have a change of heart while being scattered.

I have surely heard Ephraim’s moaning: ‘You disciplined me like an unruly calf, and I have been disciplined. Restore me, and I will return

Please not the following

After I strayed,
    I repented;

This is a confession of sin to GOD, God heard their repentance, God can see in Ephraim's heart

Baby step 7

Ephraims repentance has moved God

Therefore my heart yearns for him; I have great compassion

Baby step 8

Moved by Ephraim's compassion God does the following

The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
    “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah.

Baby step 9

Jesus Christ - the Messiah first advent the making of the new covenant

Baby step 10

Jews reject Christ and Ephraim accepts Christ.

 Mat 15:24 - Christ came for the lost sheep of Israel

At this point we insert the very symbol of Ephraim.

Christ coming for the lost sheep of Israel - Christ and the Samaritan woman.

1) Are you greater than our father Jacob......arabs do not associate Jocab whos name changed to Israel as their father

Your name is Jacob, but you will no longer be called Jacob; your name will be Israel." So he named him Israel.

Arabs call Esau their father, Jacobs brother.

2) The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true.”

See Ephraim had many husbands, because they ended up having many Gods that they worshipped.

3) Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain

That would be her ancestors being the House of Ephraim.

4) The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”

Ephraim ready to accept Christ, because of their conditions for their hearts for repentance.

Ephraim accepting christ

5) My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.

This is the fathers work I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah.

6) So Jesus goes back to Samaria 

Many of the Samaritans from that townbelieved in him because of the woman’s testimony, “He told me everything I ever did.”40 So when the Samaritans came to him, they urged him to stay with them, and he stayed two days. 41 And because of his words many more became believers

..............................

Now a little pause for you and a fun fact

Samaria at the time of Christ was a mixed culture of people, in other words due to the assyrian policy of reoccupying people in different lands, Samaria ended up becoming cosmopolitan with many gentile races, however a very few remnants of the House of Ephraim returned to their ancestral land. Symbolism of all this is the Samaritan woman (Ephraim) mixing with the gentiles (cosmopolitan Samaria) and Christ being the Gospel being preached to the nations (cosmopolitan Samaria) - A prophetic shadow.

...............................

Baby 6 - 10 recapped - Prodigal Son continued

Luk 15:17-19  And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father’s have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.  condition of Ephraims heart repentance– Jer 31:16-19
Luk 15:20  And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.  Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me. – John 14:24 - Ephraim ready to obey
Luk 15:21  And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.  The House of Israel is coming back to him with repentance – Acts 5:31
Luk 15:22  But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:  God accepts the repentance of Ephraim, and gives them back their rightful position – Hos 14
Luk 15:23  And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:  Christ was sent for the Lost of the House of Israel – Mat 15:24

...............................

Luk 15:24  For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.  Through Christ Ephraim is alive again through a renewed covenant – Heb 8:10

In Hos 13:1 Ephraim died in sin

When Ephraim spoke, people trembled; he was exalted in Israel. But he became guilty of Baal worship and died.

By accepting Christ they were made alive again

At this stage Judah still has not accepted Christ

Condition of Judahs heart

Luk 15:25-28  Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard music and dancing. And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant. And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound. And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him.  The House of Judah has a hard time accepting that the Father could accept Ephraim that had disobeyed Him and giving him another inheritance  – Acts 11:3&18 , as the House of Judah did not keep company with other Nations – Acts 10:28

Judah provoked to Jealousy

Luk 15:30  But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.  The House of Israel, on the other hand has always been in harlotry with other gods – Jer 3:6

And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.  Ephraim, unlike Judah, was given a bill of divorce and put away by God, resulting in their exile and scattering- Jer 3:8

Luk 15:32  It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.  God will accept the repenting Ephraim, making his brother, Judah, jealous – Rom 11:11

Ephraim has always been destined to accept Christ first

This is why God calls Ephraim his first born son (Jer 31:8-9)

....................................

In order to redeem Israel, Israel had to learn the hard way and be scattered through out tje nations because of Ephraims nature wanting to mix with the nations

Because of this nature, Ephraim was always destined to have the nations as his inheritance.

When the gospel went out it was directly for Ephraim, a by-product of Gods reconciliation with Ephraim was gentiles would also accept the Gospel.

In that way salvation comes for all of man kind.

Its called the common wealth of Israel

 

Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.

Hence Ephraim is Christianized along with the Christian nations as the gospel has continually be sent out to the nations.

The condition of Ephraims heart witmessed by God himself tells you they will acceot the gospel.

The Samaritan woman a symbol of Ephraim comfirms what God already knew.

Gospel to be sent out to the nations until Ephraim has had the chance to hear the gospel and then the end will come.

Why do I need to learn about Ephraim's history? Especially when you're giving your own theory on it. 

So are you gonna provide any scriptural evidence about Christ having two brides, them being Judah and Ephraim that you claimed or are you gonna continue dilly dallying till you talk your way out of the hole you dug yourself in by changing the subject?

I already figured out your little word games a long time ago so don't think I don't know what you're up to. Start posting some scriptures. Others are reading too.

 

15 hours ago, inchrist said:

The Samaritan woman a symbol of Ephraim comfirms what God already knew.

Constantly repeating this doesn't make it true. If you want to make it true, post scriptures.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Psalms37:4]

ROFL!!! 

inchrist, you're only the second person that posted more than 5 replies to a post I wrote. It wasn't my intention but I must have ruffled your feathers good. 

So are you gonna post any scriptures? So far your arguments have a lot of weight but no support. Why not just let the bible do your talking instead?