Defense of the Post Trib Rapture

[DeighAnn]

9 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Did these individuals over come; Those of the 1st Centurey if so, it is not the end you are thinking of.

Did these individuals over come, Those the 1st century.  And will they be a pillar in the temple of God.  If so, it is not the end you believe in.  They already overcame and made it.

Yet you say the end is the end of the 70th Week at the 2nd Coming.  Then all these of the 1st Century missed the boat, and you are the only one on it.  Interesting.  Only those who come out of the G.T. are on the boat.

So did these who over came in the 1st Century; will they partake of the Tree of Life.  You say one must reach the end which is after the 70th Week to be an overcomer.

Boy you leave a lot of people out with your Post Trib Garbage.  You have flushed everyone of the past overcomers down the toilet by not making it to your end.  In essence you are saying that the only way I can overcome, is if I make it through the G.T.  Sister, I have already overcome; isn't it about time for you to overcome, or are you postponing it for a future time.

In Christ

Montana Marv

If you treat the words of God as you treat my words, it's no wonder you are having a hard time understanding Gods Truth. 

 WE ARE TALKING PRE TRIB RAPTURE DOCTRINE.  WHY would that have anything to do with ANYONE other than the final generation????


Yet SOMEHOW your UNDERSTANDING of our discussions on "the final generation that has to overcome and endure to the end" has MORPHED into all generations have to be of the final generation to receive..."  quite unbelievable.  

How can you even hit the reply button on a post like that?   You KNOW I have never said such a thing, we have never even discussed PAST GENERATIONS, the final generation being the subject...


by their fruit you will know them....I hope you read the last post

and it will bring an END to teaching the children of God to fear what HE SAYS we are not to fear...or to endure what we are told we will...


 

[Montana Marv]

51 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

BROTHER, I believe it is time for YOU to reacquaint yourself with the words of GOD and TAKE NOTE of how HE FEELS about the DOCTRINES or murmurings about FEARING WHAT GOD tells us not to fear. 

How many times are we told NOT TO FEAR...We have been given power over all of our enemies?  We are to be FAITHFUL even to death.  Have you died?  Then the race has not finished

I see the DOCTRINE AS falling DIRECTLY in step with these words of GOD.  Maybe once you read them you will REALIZE, the END has not yet come.  No matter WHAT you think you have OVERCOME already,

THE END DOES NOT COME UNTIL ALL THE BRETHREN HAVE OVERCOME. 


YOU seem to forget, ONE MANY MEMBERED BODY.  


6And Moses said unto the children of Gad and to the children of Reuben, Shall your brethren go to war, and shall ye sit here?

7And wherefore discourage ye the heart of the children of Israel from going over into the land which the LORD hath given them?

8Thus did your fathers, when I sent them from Kadeshbarnea to see the land.

9For when they went up unto the valley of Eshcol, and saw the land, they discouraged the heart of the children of Israel, that they should not go into the land which the LORD had given them.

10And the LORD'S anger was kindled the same time, and he sware, saying,

11Surely none of the men that came up out of Egypt, from twenty years old and upward, shall see the land which I sware unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob; because they have not wholly followed me:

12Save Caleb the son of Jephunneh the Kenezite, and Joshua the son of Nun: for they have wholly followed the LORD.

13And the LORD'S anger was kindled against Israel, and he made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until all the generation, that had done evil in the sight of the LORD, was consumed.

14And, behold, ye are risen up in your fathers' stead, an increase of sinful men, to augment yet the fierce anger of the LORD toward Israel.

15For if ye turn away from after him, he will yet again leave them in the wilderness; and ye shall destroy all this people.



 

 

15So I took the chief of your tribes, wise men, and known, and made them heads over you, captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, and captains over fifties, and captains over tens, and officers among your tribes.

16And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

17Ye shall not respect persons in judgment; but ye shall hear the small as well as the great; ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it.

18And I commanded you at that time all the things which ye should do.

19And when we departed from Horeb, we went through all that great and terrible wilderness, which ye saw by the way of the mountain of the Amorites, as the LORD our God commanded us; and we came to Kadeshbarnea.

20And I said unto you, Ye are come unto the mountain of the Amorites, which the LORD our God doth give unto us.

21Behold, the LORD thy God hath set the land before thee: go up and possess it, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath said unto thee; fear not, neither be discouraged.

22And ye came near unto me every one of you, and said, We will send men before us, and they shall search us out the land, and bring us word again by what way we must go up, and into what cities we shall come.

23And the saying pleased me well: and I took twelve men of you, one of a tribe:

24And they turned and went up into the mountain, and came unto the valley of Eshcol, and searched it out.

25And they took of the fruit of the land in their hands, and brought it down unto us, and brought us word again, and said, It is a good land which the LORD our God doth give us.

26Notwithstanding ye would not go up, but rebelled against the commandment of the LORD your God:

27And ye murmured in your tents, and said, Because the LORD hated us, he hath brought us forth out of the land of Egypt, to deliver us into the hand of the Amorites, to destroy us.

28Whither shall we go up? our brethren have discouraged our heart, saying, The people is greater and taller than we; the cities are great and walled up to heaven; and moreover we have seen the sons of the Anakims there.


 

29Then I said unto you, Dread not, neither be afraid of them.

30The LORD your God which goeth before you, he shall fight for you, according to all that he did for you in Egypt before your eyes;

31And in the wilderness, where thou hast seen how that the LORD thy God bare thee, as a man doth bear his son, in all the way that ye went, until ye came into this place.

32Yet in this thing ye did not believe the LORD your God,

33Who went in the way before you, to search you out a place to pitch your tents in, in fire by night, to shew you by what way ye should go, and in a cloud by day.

34And the LORD heard the voice of your words, and was wroth, and sware, saying,

35Surely there shall not one of these men of this evil generation see that good land, which I sware to give unto your fathers,

36Save Caleb the son of Jephunneh; he shall see it, and to him will I give the land that he hath trodden upon, and to his children, because he hath wholly followed the LORD.

 

God is the same TODAY...AND what is the MESSAGE given TO THE CHURCHES????


 

8And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

9I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

10Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

11He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches;

He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

ONE BODY, "And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." Matthew 25:40 KJV

Everything you listed can easily be Pre-trib. When God the Father ushers in the last of the Bride, the Bridegroom comes. At the last hour. The last entry into the church. Not the end of the 70th Week. I have already overcome,  I am eligible to go up anytime. Dead or Alive. It could be Mid Trib but definitely not Post-Trib. All know when the 2nd Coming is. Only God the Father knows when the Bridegroom will come. So all your supporting Scripture for a Post-Trib doctrine for the Rapture are wrong.  I'm watching and waiting now for the Rapture not 7 years from now. Wishful thinking is not what the 10 virgins believed. 5 entered   5 went to buy more oil. They returned, but the door was shut. 

In Christ 

Montana Marv 

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Everything you listed can easily be Pre-trib. When God the Father ushers in the last of the Bride, the Bridegroom comes. At the last hour. The last entry into the church. Not the end of the 70th Week. I have already overcome,  I am eligible to go up anytime. Dead or Alive. It could be Mid Trib but definitely not Post-Trib. All know when the 2nd Coming is. Only God the Father knows when the Bridegroom will come. So all your supporting Scripture for a Post-Trib doctrine for the Rapture are wrong.  I'm watching and waiting now for the Rapture not 7 years from now. Wishful thinking is not what the 10 virgins believed. 5 entered   5 went to buy more oil. They returned, but the door was shut. 

In Christ 

Montana Marv 

You may be eligible to go at anytime,

but that time is going to be BY DEATH and not pre trib rapture because 

pre trib is NOT THE END. 

MID TRIB is not the end. 

It is only for those WHO ENDURE TO THE END

and the END only comes post TRIB

AFTER THE WORKINGS OF SATAN.   

[Montana Marv]

38 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

You may be eligible to go at anytime,

but that time is going to be BY DEATH and not pre trib rapture because 

pre trib is NOT THE END. 

MID TRIB is not the end. 

It is only for those WHO ENDURE TO THE END

and the END only comes post TRIB

AFTER THE WORKINGS OF SATAN.   

Thus all overcomes will have missed your end. Never said Pre-trib was the end. But it is the end of the church age.

The Scripture says the Word doesn't know when the Bridegroom retrieves his Bride. And for some reason you think you do. I know you and all of us are not the Father in heaven. Therefore I cannot believe in a known time Post-Trib doctrine.

Jesus is much smarter than any of us, and He doesn't know the day of the Rapture. Yet you know.  Only one source can give that false information.  Misapplying scripture. 

In Christ 

Montana Marv 

[DeighAnn]

What do POST TRIBS BELIEVE?  

THAT THIS 1ST VERSE COULDN'T EVEN BE WRITTEN

IF INDEED THERE HAD BEEN 'COMING FOR THE CHURCH' PREVIOUS THIS

FOR ONE, WHO WOULD THIS BE WRITTEN TO? 


1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,


POST TRIBS BELIEVE THAT BOTH THE WORD AND LETTER SPOKEN OF HERE IS THE 1ST LETTER TO THE THESSALONIANS 

AND MISUNDERSTANDINGS IT MAY HAVE CAUSED ARE GOING TO BE MADE CLEAR, VERY CLEAR, VERY SUPER CLEAR
 

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.


DONT LET ANY MAN DECEIVE YOU AND DON'T DECEIVE ANY MAN


HERE ARE THE FACTS



3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

WHAT IS REQUIRED TO TAKE PLACE BEFORE WE ARE GATHERED?  

A FALLING AWAY

AND SATAN REVEALED




AND HOW WILL SATAN BE REVEALED TO THOSE WITH EYES TO SEE?  
 

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.




WHAT ELSE DO WE KNOW?  SIN IS ALREADY AT WORK, 
2And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

There is a rider on the 'white horse' who was sent out long ago who was

is GIVEN a crown.  WHO do you suppose gave it to him?

had a bow, well an imitation 

sent out TO OVERCOME.  

What would be the point of us to be told we are to OVERCOME and endure to the end, not be deceived and NOT TAKE THE MARK OF THE BEAST

if none of that was EVEN A POSSIBILITY?  And would God write the bible to those who aren't reading it?  None of it makes any sense, unless fear was the motivator. 


What are the chances GOD is going to send someone to OVERCOME those who don't even know what is going on?  What would that prove?  

Why would time be shortened if the church wasn't here?  Why would GOD DIVIDE when HE is the one who told us a house divided cannot stand?   The list goes on and on.  


3528. nikaó ►
Strong's Concordance
nikaó: to conquer, prevail
Original Word: νικάω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: nikaó
Phonetic Spelling: (nik-ah'-o)
Definition: to conquer, prevail
Usage: I conquer, am victorious, overcome, prevail, subdue.
HELPS Word-studies
3528 nikáō(from 3529 /níkē, "victory") – properly, conquer (overcome); " 'to carry off the victory, come off victorious.' The verb implies a battle" (K. Wuest).

If there is a battle coming WHY WOULD GOD REMOVE those who have the GOSPEL ARMOR in favor of those WHO NEED A SIGN?


7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.


 

8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the Spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming:

9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,



And just like the SPIES who didn't trust God would do what He said....

those who cause GODS CHILDREN to not trust Him and promote fear in the things we are told to not fear

are not going to be in very good shape because

10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

The BIGGEST TRUTH ABOUT POST TRIB IS it doesn't make void the words of God...








































































 

[DeighAnn]

8 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

But it is the end of the church age.

The MAN MADE CHURCH AGE.  

If it ended there could be no TRIB SAINTS 

[DeighAnn]

9 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

The Scripture says the Word doesn't know when the Bridegroom retrieves his Bride. And for some reason you think you do. I know you and all of us are not the Father in heaven. Therefore I cannot believe in a known time Post-Trib doctrine.

We don't know the hour because HE ISN'T ONLY THE BRIDEGROOM FOR THE CHURCH but for all members.  

REMEMBER those of the first century  HE CAME FOR THEM, and so all those verses you put forth are for the PRE TRIB ONLY

makes you the one who leaves all the rest out...

every man in his own order....FOLLOWS HIM

[DeighAnn]

11 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

And for some reason you think you do. I know you and all of us are not the Father in heaven. Therefore I cannot believe in a known time Post-Trib doctrine.

But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

5Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

"Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent.
If therefore thou shalt not watch,

I will come on thee as a thief,

and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee." Revelation 3:3 KJV


"Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame." Revelation 16:15 KJV


is your house being broken into....are you being deceived?

[Montana Marv]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

5Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

"Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent.
If therefore thou shalt not watch,

I will come on thee as a thief,

and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee." Revelation 3:3 KJV


"Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame." Revelation 16:15 KJV


is your house being broken into....are you being deceived?

Sounds alot like Pre-trib and not Post-Trib 

In Christ 

Montana Marv 

[Montana Marv]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

We don't know the hour because HE ISN'T ONLY THE BRIDEGROOM FOR THE CHURCH but for all members.  

REMEMBER those of the first century  HE CAME FOR THEM, and so all those verses you put forth are for the PRE TRIB ONLY

makes you the one who leaves all the rest out...

every man in his own order....FOLLOWS HIM

Only those indwelt by the Holy Spirit  as at Pentecost are his Bride.

In Christ 

Montana Marv