steve morrow Posted July 25, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,069 Content Per Day: 0.62 Reputation: 377 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/15/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/07/1955 Share Posted July 25, 2021 OBEY AND RECEIVE 2 PETER 3:16 as also in all his epistles speaking in them of these things in which are some things hard to be understood ---which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest--- as they do also the other scriptures unto their own destruction ACTS 5:34 and we are HIS witnesses of these things and so is also the holy spirit whom GOD hath given to those who OBEY HIM LUKE 19:26 for I say unto you that unto everyone which hath shall be given and from him that hath not even that he hath shall be taken from him LUKE 11:13 if you then being evil know how to give good gifts unto your children how much --more-- shall your heavenly FATHER give the holy spirit to them that ask HIM 2 CORINTHIANS 1:21 now HE which establisheth us with you in CHRIST JESUS and hath anointed us is GOD --1:22-- who hath also sealed us and given the earnest of the spirit in our hearts 2 TIMOTHY 2:19 nevertheless the foundation of GOD standeth sure having this seal THE LORD knoweth them that are HIS and let everyone that nameth the name of CHRIST depart from iniquity ROMANS 10:13 for whosoever shall call upon the name of the LORD shall be saved Acts 3:26 unto you first GOD having raised up HIS SON JESUS sent HIM to bless you in turning away every one of you from his iniquities GALATIANS 4:6 and because you are sons GOD hath sent forth the spirit of HIS SON into your hearts crying ABBA FATHER JOHN 6:63 it is the spirit that quickeneth the flesh profiteth nothing the words that I speak unto you they are spirit and they are life JOHN 5:21 for as THE FATHER raiseth up the dead and quickeneth them even so THE SON quickeneth whom HE will 1 CORINTHIANS 15:45 and so it is written the first man adam was made a living soul the last adam was made a quickening spirit --15:47-- the first man is of the earth the second man is THE LORD from heaven PROVERBS 4:5 get wisdom get understanding forget it not ---neither decline from the words of MY mouth PSALM 119:151 many are my persecuters and mine enemies yet do I not decline from thy testimonies 1 CORINTHIANS 8:5 for though there be that are called gods whether in heaven or in earth as there be gods many and lords many --8:6--but to us there is but one GOD THE FATHER of whom are all things and we in him and one LORD JESUS CHRIST by whom are all things and we by HIM 1 TIMOTHY 2:5 for there is --one god--and--one mediator-- between GOD and men the man JESUS CHRIST 2 TIMOTHY 2:7 consider what I say and THE LORD give thee understanding in all things LOVING THE LORD JESUS CHRIST 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debrakay Posted July 25, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 60 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,249 Content Per Day: 1.90 Reputation: 3,104 Days Won: 20 Joined: 03/02/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted July 25, 2021 I am very surprised no one brought up the thief on the cross next to Jesus, who was neither baptized nor filled with the Holy Spirit in the ways discussed. I guess Jesus gave him a heavenly pass because he knew the thief's true heart at the end. Luke 23:39-43 (KJV) And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. 40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. 42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. Matthew 7:1 NIV 1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kot Posted July 26, 2021 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 20 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/19/2021 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 26, 2021 (edited) Dear all; I am really happy with your opinions especially the bible texts that you have provided. Those of you who have comment, I have few things to discuss. See below. -- In Act 1: 1-20 the apostles were waiting for the Holy Spirit to come down and they prayed while waiting. When the Holy Spirit came down on the people, they were baptized in the Holy Spirit (act 1:5). Verse 5 says: “5 John baptized people with water, but in a few days, you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”. so, the coming down of Holy Spirits on the people is the baptism of the Holy Spirit which the people had received. Paul was also baptizing people with the Holy Spirit (ACT 19:1-7). Paul asked them what baptism the people received. Paul asked this question because there are two baptisms as indicated in John chapter 3: verses 5-8 and Acts 1 verse 5. The people replied and said they had received John’s baptism which is the water baptized. Then later Paul prayed for them and they received the Holy Spirit baptism. Coming of the Holy Spirit when on the people is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. This power or work was given to the Apostle only (John 14: 16-17). In the presence of the apostles’ holy spirit came down. When all the apostles died the work they did, baptizing the people in the Holy Spirit, did not last. However, the good news spread. Paul was teaching the people of Corinthians who have already received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit from above about what they should do when they gather together. At this time the apostles were still there. The instructions Paul gave them are in 1 Corinthians 12: 1-14 and 1 Corinthian 14: 1-12. In these two texts, Paul was talking about the gift of the Holy Spirit. These very gifts that Paul referred to came from above in the beginning at Jerusalem or when in the presences of the apostles when they preached or praying. Paul knew that the people had already received the Gift of the Holy Spirit from Heaven thus he instructed them on how to use them. Paul did not give the people the gifts of the Holy Spirit for the second time or Paul did not prayed for the people the second time so that they could receive the gift of the Holy Spirit for the second time but Paul know they had already received it which is the baptism of the Holy Spirit that came from above. Now, we are discussing the experiences of the Holy Spirit when the apostles were still alive where they could pray or preach and people could receive the Holy Spirit to fulfill John 14:16-17. Also, those experiences about the Holy Spirit and Discussion about the Holy Spirit in the bible were about those people who already received the Holy Spirit either from time when the Holy Spirit came down or when the apostles preached and prayed for them. Comparing their experiences and ours, we try to make the people in the past the same as us. However, in our case, none of the apostles have prayed for us nor have we been there in Jerusalem when the Holy Spirit came down. When looking carefully at the Acts 8 verse 14-16 and Acts 19: 1-7, the people there heard the God new, they believe, and they received water baptism but none of them have received the Holy Spirit. We are also the same, we heard the good news of Jesus Christ, we then believed, and we baptized in water but then we say we have received the Holy Spirit. However, for those people in the past, the apostle was there and preached or prayed for them and they could receive the Holy Spirit but how about us. The Bible text that all of you have posted in the comment is all about the experience of the Holy Spirit that those people who have already received the Holy Spirit when the apostles were still alive. Their experiences about the Holy Spirit are written and seen in the Bible and we use them to support our views. The people have heard Good news of Jesus Christ, they Believed and they were baptized in water, but they did not receive the Holy Spirit. The people receive the Holy Spirit in the presence of the Apostle when the apostles were preaching or praying. Many texts in the Bible are about after the people receive the Holy Spirit. Why didn’t the people who heard Good News, Believed, and baptized in water receive the Holy Spirit. This happened to full fill John 14: 16-17 because the Holy Spirit was with the apostles only; John 14: 16-17 “16 I will ask the father, and he will give you another Helper to be with you forever. 17 The Helper is the Spirit of truth. The people of the world cannot accept him, because they don’t see him or know him. But you know him. He lives with you, and he will be in you.” But all the apostles died. Thank you Edited July 26, 2021 by Kot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waggles Posted July 26, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,790 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 983 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/20/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted July 26, 2021 32 minutes ago, Kot said: But all the apostles died. So !! The promise of the Holy Spirit comes from the Father not the apostles. Today we also are recipients of the Holy Spirit and enjoy exactly the same experiences and gifts and ministries as the first century church - the Pentecostal churches today enjoy the outpouring of the Holy Spirit in these very last end of days. We still conduct our service meetings in full accordance with 1Corinthians 14 and ALL members of our church speak in tongues (these signs shall follow them that believe). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve morrow Posted July 26, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,069 Content Per Day: 0.62 Reputation: 377 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/15/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/07/1955 Share Posted July 26, 2021 DOST NOT THOU FEAR THE LORD ??? LUKE 12:5 but I will forewarn you whom you shall fear fear HIM which after HE hath killed hath power to cast into hell yea I say ---fear HIM--- LUKE 1:50 and HIS mercy is on them ---that fear HIM ---from generation to generation PSALM 147:11 THE LORD taketh pleasure in ---them that fear HIM--- in those that hope in HIS mercy PSALM 103:17 but the mercy of THE LORD is from everlasting to everlasting ---upon ---them that fear HIM--- and HIS righteousness unto childrens children *******PSALM 145:19 HE will fulfil the desire of ---them that fear HIM --- HE also will hear their cry and ---save them******* LOVING THE LORD JESUS CHRIST 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve morrow Posted July 26, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,069 Content Per Day: 0.62 Reputation: 377 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/15/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/07/1955 Share Posted July 26, 2021 YOUR OWN SPIRIT --- IS IT NEEDFUL EZEKIEL 13:3 thus saith THE LORD GOD woe unto the foolish prophets that follow their own spirit that have seen nothing ISAIAH 30:1 woe unto the rebellious children saith THE LORD that take counsel ---but not of ME-- and that cover with a covering ---but not of MY spirit that they may add sin to sin JOHN 7:16 JESUS answered them and said MY doctrine is not mine but HIS that sent ME --7:17-- IF -- any man will do HIS will he shall know of the doctrine whether it be of GOD or whether I speak of myself --17:18-- he that speaketh of himself ---seeketh his own glory--- but he that seeketh HIS glory that sent him the same is true and ---no unrighteousness is in him--- PROVERBS 8:8 all the words of MY mouth are in righteousness there is nothing froward or perverse in them ISAIAH 29:24 they also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding and they that murmered shall learn doctrine 2 TIMOTHY 2:7 consider what I say and THE LORD give thee understanding ---in all things --- PROVERBS 2:6 for THE LORD giveth wisdom out of HIS mouth cometh knowledge and understanding JOHN 15:5 -- I -- am the vine you are the branches ---he that abideth in ME---and I in him the same bringeth forth much fruit ---for without ME you can do nothing PROVERBS 8:14 counsel is mine and sound wisdom ---I am understanding I have strength *******PROVERBS 21:16 the man that wandereth out of the way of understanding shall remain in the congregation of the dead******* 1 JOHN 5:8 and there are three that bear witness in earth --the spirit--and the water--and the blood-- and these three agree in one JOHN 6:63 it is the spirit that quickeneth the flesh profiteth nothing --the words that I speak-- they are spirit and they are life-- ROMANS 8:2 for the law of the --spirit of life-- in CHRIST JESUS hath made me free from the law of sin and death EPHESIANS 5:25 husbands love your wives --even as CHRIST loved the church and gave himself for it --5:26-- that HE might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word HEBREWS 12:24 and to JESUS the mediator of the new covenant and to --the blood of sprinkling-- that speaketh better things --than that of abel JOHN 5:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven --if-- any man eat of this bread he shall live forever and the bread that I will give is --MY FLESH-- which I will give for the life of the world JOHN 6:54 whoso eateth MY flesh --and drinketh MY blood hath eternal life and I will raise him up at the last day 1 JOHN 1:7 but --if-- we walk in the light-- as HE is in the light we have fellowship one with another and --the blood-- of JESUS CHRIST HIS SON CLEANSETH --us from all sin PSALM 119:130 the entrance of thy words giveth light it giveth understanding unto the simple EPHESIANS 6:17 and take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the spirit which is the word of GOD ***AGAIN*** 1 JOHN 5:8 and there are three that bear witness on earth --the spirit--and the water and the blood -- and these three agree in one******* 1 CORINTHIANS 11:3 but I would have you know that the head of every man is CHRIST and the head of every woman is the man and the head of CHRIST IS GOD ACTS 1:1 the former treatise have I made O theophilus of all that JESUS began both to do and teach --1:2-- until the day in which HE was taken up --after-- that HE through ---the holy spirit had given commandments--- unto the apostles whom HE had chosen JOHN 12:49 for I have not spoken of myself but THE FATHER which sent ME HE gave ME a commandment what I should say and what I should speak ---12:50-- and I know that HIS commandment is life everlasting whatsoever I speak therefore even as --THE FATHER-- said unto ME so I speak LOVING THE LORD JESUS CHRIST 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted July 26, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 349 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 7,532 Content Per Day: 2.69 Reputation: 5,425 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted July 26, 2021 On 7/20/2021 at 12:17 PM, Jayne said: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved." Baptism does not save. It just gets you wet. Why do we baptize then? Because it is imitating Christ and it is a picture of our being dead, buried, and risen IN him. God asked us to not TO save but because we are saved. It is our first public testimony. The Holy Spirit is given to the Christian upon their salvation. To say that you believe in Jesus, but upon some future date, you must receive the Holy Spirit to BE saved is an inerrant teaching. To say that belief in Christ does not save until you are dunked in the water and at some future time indwelled by the Holy Spirit, one is saying untruthfully that Jesus Christ cannot and does not save. One is saying the water saves and the Holy Spirit, beyond the blood of Christ saves. See - untrue. From Ephesians 1: = "In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory." This CLEARLY state that when you believed in Jesus Christ immediately the Holy Spirit sealed you. BUMP. This is our core faith, hope and trust in the Gospel and our Salvation. Well stated Jayne. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kot Posted July 26, 2021 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 20 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/19/2021 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 26, 2021 (edited) On 7/26/2021 at 10:41 AM, Waggles said: The promise of the Holy Spirit comes from the Father not the apostles. Thank you for the comment. The promise of Jesus came from the Father through Jesus Christ and to the apostles. The words of Jesus that made up the promise are as flows: “John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.” (This is the promise from the father, John 14: 16-17). This promise, no one can either add nor subtract or ignore it. John 14:16-17 16 I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper to be with you forever. 17 The Helper is the Spirit of truth. The people of the world cannot accept him, because they don’t see him or know him. But you know him. He lives with you, and he will be in you. This is another promise from the Father that came through Jesus Christ and to all of us. This promise is a must condition and firm requirement (John 3: 5-8). This is the promise that no one can either add nor subtract or ignore it. John 3: 5: "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." Because of Jesus's Promise in John 14:16-17, The apostles prayed for the people and so that they could receive the Holy Spirit (acts 8: 16-17). This is the clear evident that the Holy Spirit came down because of the apostles through Jesus Christ from the father. Acts 8: 16-17: 16 These people had been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, but the Holy Spirit had not yet come down on any of them. This is why Peter and John prayed. 17 When the two apostles laid their hands on the people, they received the Holy Spirit. Acts 19: 6: 6 Then Paul laid his hands on them, and the Holy Spirit came on them. They began speaking different languages and prophesying. Acts 11:15: 15 “After I began speaking, the Holy Spirit came on them just as he came on us at the beginning. Acts 10: 44:44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came down on all those who were listening to his speech. God the father and Jesus Christ gave the Holy Spirit to the people through the Apostles. Therefore, this also means that the Holy spirit came through the Apostles. There is not other Medium that Holy Spirit came down. Thus, we can not ignore this fact. If we ignore this fact then we are misleading. God bless Edited July 27, 2021 by Kot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waggles Posted July 27, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,790 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 983 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/20/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted July 27, 2021 5 hours ago, Kot said: God the father and Jesus Christ gave the Holy Spirit to the people through the Apostles. Therefore, this also means that the Holy spirit came through the Apostles. There is not other Medium that Holy Spirit came down. Thus, we can not ignore this fact. If we ignore this fact then we are misleading. Sorry not following you here. Are you arguing that the Holy Spirit is no longer given to Christian disciples these modern days because the original apostles died?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted July 27, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 779 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,959 Content Per Day: 3.03 Reputation: 1,989 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted July 27, 2021 (edited) On 7/26/2021 at 2:00 AM, debrakay said: I am very surprised no one brought up the thief on the cross next to Jesus, who was neither baptized nor filled with the Holy Spirit in the ways discussed. I guess Jesus gave him a heavenly pass because he knew the thief's true heart at the end. Luke 23:39-43 (KJV) And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. 40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. 42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. Matthew 7:1 NIV 1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. The thief only had a few more minutes to live, howbeit to speak of baptism for him. Edited July 27, 2021 by R. Hartono 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts