Tribulation, Great Tribulation, and Daniel's 70th Week

[Diaste]

14 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Citing Strong's numbers and definitions for words does not really explain the meaning of the same word in the context of a specific verse. For example, the same verb could have be used in more than a half dozen different stems (e.g., Qal, Niphal, Hiphil, etc.) and even more tenses (prefect, imperfect, passive participle, present participle, etc. etc.). So unless one understands Hebrew grammar, one cannot really judge the true meaning of a word in the context.

Fortunately for you, I have explained the terms you cited in my extensive blog post on Daniel 9:27:

…וְעַל/And upon/over כְּנַף/a wing/corner/border, שִׁקּוּצִים/abominable things/idols of מְשֹׁמֵם/one who destroys/a destroyer [Polel verb stem (like Piel: intensive) Active Participle ms]…

“… And upon/over a wing/corner shall be abominations/idols of a destroyer…”

Comment: All kinds of presumptions have been imposed by different translators upon this phrase. For example, עַל means “upon, over,” never “for” or “by.” (Compare what your Bible says.)

כְּנַף is a noun here; this spelling is never a verb participle, as the KJV mistranslates it (“overspreading”). It has no prefix ה/the.

שִׁקּוּצִים is plural, not singular. Although many people presume that this phraseשִׁקּוּצִים מְשֹׁמֵם/shiqqutzim məshomame is equivalent to the similar-sounding phrase שִׁקּוּץ שֹׁמֵם/shiqqutz shomame of Daniel 12:11, they are significantly different. Only the latter phrase fulfills the prophecy by Jesus about “the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet.” Matt. 24:15 Both shiqqutz and shomame are singular and lack the prefixה, so shomame can act as an attributive participle, thus as a modifier of shiqqutz: “a desolating abomination” = “an abomination of desolation.”

In contrast, 9:27ʼs shiqqutzim is plural, while məshomame is singular, so cannot be its modifier: it has to be a noun, “destroyer.” (Attributive participles must agree in number – both being singular or plural; in gender – both being masculine or feminine; and in definiteness – both having or not having the definite articleה. See Part 4 for the three kinds of participles.)

The NIVʼs “an abomination that causes desolation” utterly corrupts the meaning of the Hebrew text. The NIV rejects the Hebrew, following the Greek Septuagint, which grossly varies from the Hebrew text of the Book of Daniel. Contrary to the understanding of many people, the original Septuagint scholars did not translate anything beyond the Torah, the five books of Moses. Translations of the other Old Testament books were added later by unknown translators at unknown times. Those translations significantly varied in quality.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1598-daniel-924-27-examined-part-5-verse-27/

Regarding Daniel 8:17, what I wrote earlier fully explains why the presumptions made by the purveyors of the traditional reading are incorrect. If you can provide any testimony from them for their presumption to put in their "the"s in their translations "the time of the end," I would be happy read it and respond.

 

I don't think the idea of the A of D, "...when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand)" as spoken by Jesus is referring to a past prophecy as future from Jesus time but much more about the understanding of the A of D itself. Jesus did say "let the reader understand". Now that could be about the prophetic fulfillment but understanding a thing has many parts that have nothing to do with a prophecy. 

Jesus gave the prophecy in Matt 24 and Mark 13. That's coming. Jesus didn't say "Look to the prophecy of Daniel for the fulfillment" He said "See what Daniel said about it." 

Since the command is to hear the words of Daniel about this subject it's not when it was fulfilled by whom as much as it is about understanding what it is.

Then whatever Daniel said about the A of D every time Daniel said something about it is what we are to hear and understand about the A of D in relation to the prophecy of Jesus. 

The prophecy was given by Jesus and Jesus said the understanding of the major element of that prophecy can be understood through the words of the prophet Daniel. Daniel 9 is an important bit of information concerning the A of D since it's written and Jesus said in looking to Daniel we would find understanding.