Should I get the Covid vaccine?

[David1701]

9 hours ago, johnthebaptist said:

When having a discussion, it is wise to treat the others with respect.

Then I suggest that you start doing it!

You are the one who has been ignoring the points that I make, and making unfounded assumptions about me.

When being corrected, the right response is humility and a change of behaviour, not trying to turns things around, to make it look as if the other is in the wrong.  This kind of conduct is disgraceful, and so are the "likes" for such conduct.

I will no longer engage with you, on this thread, unless I see some sign of a change of heart.

[David1701]

9 hours ago, one.opinion said:

We have real life evidence from the hundreds of millions of vaccinated individuals over the last 8-9 months. The conclusions from the clinical trials are supported by what we see “in the real world.” The vaccines are very effective and very safe. The opinion piece is hardly relevant when we see the proof in real outcomes.

Opinion piece?  It shows that Pfizer has cherry-picked the results, when presenting statistics, in order to make its vaccine look far more effective than the evidence from its trials suggests!

The stats in your previous post about it being almost all the unvaccinated who are being hospitalised are also misleading, since those who have had one shot, or those who are less than two weeks after having both shots, are counted amongst the "unvaccinated".

In case anyone doubts that we are being deliberately misled by the powers that be, have a look at this link.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2021/08/12/dr-robert-malone-explains-mrna-vaccines-and-the-noble-lie-used-by-the-medical-establishment-to-manipulate-vaccine-propaganda/

[johnthebaptist]

1 hour ago, David1701 said:

Then I suggest that you start doing it!

You are the one who has been ignoring the points that I make, and making unfounded assumptions about me.

When being corrected, the right response is humility and a change of behaviour, not trying to turns things around, to make it look as if the other is in the wrong.  This kind of conduct is disgraceful, and so are the "likes" for such conduct.

I will no longer engage with you, on this thread, unless I see some sign of a change of heart.

If we don't treat people with respect, people won't listen to us.

[Kelly2363]

4 minutes ago, johnthebaptist said:

If we don't treat people with respect, people won't listen to us.

 

Far be it for me to speak for another member - but taking your own words to David - you inflected a claim that he was afraid  to take the Covid vaccine - And as with all such careful mechanisms there is an imputed meaning in open forum that implies a less than respectful attitude for a man who did little more than assert a cogent and rational position. 

[one.opinion]

4 hours ago, Kelly2363 said:

When I am told or else read that the vast majority of doctors and immunologists in the world believe that the vaccine is a good thing - I do wonder what a good thing is. 

I think we can all agree that NOT needing hospitalization and NOT dying from COVID - things unvaccinated people experience in the overwhelming majority compared to vaccinated individuals - constitute “good things.”

[johnthebaptist]

36 minutes ago, Kelly2363 said:

 

Far be it for me to speak for another member - but taking your own words to David - you inflected a claim that he was afraid  to take the Covid vaccine - And as with all such careful mechanisms there is an imputed meaning in open forum that implies a less than respectful attitude for a man who did little more than assert a cogent and rational position. 

I made no such claim.

[one.opinion]

2 hours ago, David1701 said:

Opinion piece?

Yes, that is what it’s called when an author writes an article that is expressing his or her opinion.

Again, the real world evidence is extremely strong support for the conclusions of the phase 3 trial reports.

2 hours ago, David1701 said:

The stats in your previous post about it being almost all the unvaccinated who are being hospitalised are also misleading, since those who have had one shot, or those who are less than two weeks after having both shots, are counted amongst the "unvaccinated".

I’ve broken down the UK numbers before in a different thread. They are exactly what would be predicted. One dose helps protect from hospitalization and death. Two doses protects even better. Quibbling about the exact statistics does not detract from these obvious facts. The COVID vaccines that are used in the US and UK are very effective.

[David1701]

8 minutes ago, one.opinion said:

I think we can all agree that NOT needing hospitalization and NOT dying from COVID - things unvaccinated people experience in the overwhelming majority compared to vaccinated individuals - constitute “good things.”

Let's just hope (wishful thinking, at the moment) that the long-term effects of the vaccines are also "good things", in spite of the serious concerns by some medical experts.

The vaccines, according to the official line, stay at the vaccination site and do not travel to other parts of the body, where they could cause serious, long-term problems.  Vaccination expert Prof. Byram Bridle has discovered that this is not the case and that they do indeed travel to other parts of the body, sometimes in quite large concentrations.

[one.opinion]

2 minutes ago, David1701 said:

Let's just hope (wishful thinking, at the moment) that the long-term effects of the vaccines are also "good things", in spite of the serious concerns by some medical experts.

There is insufficient data to arrive at any other conclusion. Everything else is just conjecture.

[David1701]

1 minute ago, one.opinion said:

Yes, that is what it’s called when an author writes an article that is expressing his or her opinion.

Again, the real world evidence is extremely strong support for the conclusions of the phase 3 trial reports.

I’ve broken down the UK numbers before in a different thread. They are exactly what would be predicted. One dose helps protect from hospitalization and death. Two doses protects even better. Quibbling about the exact statistics does not detract from these obvious facts.

There was opinion in it; but it also gave some important facts, which are not widely publicised, about the Pfizer phase 3 trials.  These show that the claimed effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine is based on cherry-picked data and could be far lower in reality.

I wouldn't call it "quibbling" to point out that the label "unvaccinated" is being used in a misleading way.

Quote

The COVID vaccines that are used in the US and UK are very effective.

Even officially, how effective is the AstraZeneca vaccine against the South African variant?

In the short term, the vaccines appear to be doing what they claim (reducing the severity and length of symptoms), but there are high quality treatments that do this as well, without the risks of experimental vaccines.