Mark 13:8 ~ Earthquakes....

[missmuffet]

18 minutes ago, Tammy Roesch said:

I love those passages.  Perhaps reading it from a different translation makes it easier to understand? 

 

 

There is a lot we do not agree on as far as theology goes.

[teddyv]

1 hour ago, Tammy Roesch said:

As we get closer to the return of Jesus, more and more of these natural disasters are going to happen...

I read this as saying these things will happen, but not that there will be more earthquakes and wars. The "more" seems to refers to other signs or "birth pangs". 

[Omegaman 3.0]

Coincidentally, I was just a few moments ago looking into the topic of e frequency, and ran across this:

 

[Omegaman 3.0]

3 hours ago, missmuffet said:

That is what a person who is pretribulation believes. That is what reading the Bible literally tells me.

Really Where is that?

Quote

 

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

1 Corinthians 15:50-54

 

1 Thess 13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. 15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

So, Paul says that according to the Lord, that we who are alive and left until His coming, will not precede those who have died. Therefore in THIS case at least, this is not about a pretrib rapture, but about his second coming which He said is after the great tribulation. )See note below) That is when the dead in Christ are resurrected,THEN beleivers rise to meet them and the Lord in the air. Of course only those what desire to take the Bible literally, would notice that. Has to be about His visible return after the trib, not related to a pretrib rapture, if there is such a thing.

50 I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. 53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. 54 When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

Again, no mention of a pre-trib rapture, but a validation that there is a time (at the second coming, his return, his parousia) when the dead will be raised (as we already saw, that is after the great tribulation. Paul is not going to contradic himself. So unless you can show scripture were it literally places the "last trump" occuring before the tribulation, this is hardly evidence to the pretrib position.

However, they are hopeful, optimistic, encouraging verses, that beleivers in spite of suffering on earth, inherit eternal life with the Lord.

Note:
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days: ‘The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’ 30 At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.

There are many pre-trib believers who know these verses, can understand what they say, but for some reason choose to ignore what the implications of the words.

[missmuffet]

14 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Really Where is that?

1 Thess 13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. 15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

So, Paul says that according to the Lord, that we who are alive and left until His coming, will not precede those who have died. Therefore in THIS case at least, this is not about a pretrib rapture, but about his second coming which He said is after the great tribulation. )See note below) That is when the dead in Christ are resurrected,THEN beleivers rise to meet them and the Lord in the air. Of course only those what desire to take the Bible literally, would notice that. Has to be about His visible return after the trib, not related to a pretrib rapture, if there is such a thing.

50 I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. 53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. 54 When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

Again, no mention of a pre-trib rapture, but a validation that there is a time (at the second coming, his return, his parousia) when the dead will be raised (as we already saw, that is after the great tribulation. Paul is not going to contradic himself. So unless you can show scripture were it literally places the "last trump" occuring before the tribulation, this is hardly evidence to the pretrib position.

However, they are hopeful, optimistic, encouraging verses, that beleivers in spite of suffering on earth, inherit eternal life with the Lord.

Note:
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days: ‘The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’ 30 At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.

There are many pre-trib believers who know these verses, can understand what they say, but for some reason choose to ignore what the implications of the words.

Suit yourself. Time will tell.