TCC Posted September 1, 2021 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 59 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/02/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted September 1, 2021 21 hours ago, Dennis1209 said: Our views align closely @TCC No one knows how everything is precisely going to play out in God's plan. But we definitely see the alignments and formation of a One World government and economy; a One World Religious system; and everything Jesus said would happen leading up to the Tribulation in Matthew 24: and elsewhere. Yes, there has to be an electronic system in place for one person to be capable of controlling all buying and selling; a cashless society. It cannot be Bitcoin or an unregulated cryptocurrency; because government cannot track it and tax it. Rest assured there will be no hiding of anything in the coming Beast system. And that leads to something else. An army of human people, or banks of computers, can never make instant decisions with global buying and selling. Enter stage left, artificial intelligence; I'll leave it at that. Mystery Babylon: Now there's a can of worms to stir up any biblical debate I don't know if you're old enough to remember how many liver pills Carter had LoL. But there are two distinct mystery Babylon's, one spiritual and the other commercial. You mentioned America and commercial Babylon, so I'll just stick to that and my thoughts, and run a few things through. As I mention my thoughts, think about the "Ten Kings" in Revelation; who and what are they; why does the Antichrist need them? They could be ten heads of state, the heads of the ten economic trading zones the United Nations divided the globe into; that's all possible and makes sense. But whom do we see right now doing the voluntary dirty work setting this system up? What if your free speech, critical thinking, thought, conversations of ideas [political, 2nd Amendment, religious thought, criticism of politics, controlled vote counting, etc.] was monitored, censored, restricted and terminated at a whim, and for no cause or explanation? Are you aware of exactly this happening in major news media; most social media; YouTube, etc. Read the new policy changes and service agreement on Amazon and many national banks [scary stuff]. In my area, grocery stores [Shop & Save, Aldie's, etc.], and many other small businesses are folding like crazy. Many smaller businesses are being gobbled up by international and global corporations. The number of individual owners of major media, global corporations, communications are dwindling and being bought and absorbed. There is no longer any enforcement of anti-trust laws and monopolies [IE. Ma Bell & AT&T, etc.]. I think it possible these Ten Kings, are the heads of monopolies that makes the world go around? Speculation true, but feasible and what I'm seeing transpire in real time. I think mystery commercial Babylon, is a sophisticated globally connected system of merchants and banking [international business]. It's getting worse by the year but; what happens when you do not agree or follow a changed "terms of service" policy from your financial institution? It's coming. Your thoughts? Yes I understand how you are breaking down commercial Babylon. I agree the 10 kings will be governance over regions. From what I understand, they will emerge toward the middle of the tribulation. So, as a pretribber, I don't believe we will get to see that. But it would appear from bowl 7 that it is a location. So just saying it seems like it would be a powerful nation. And right now (at least for now...lol) that would be America (if we are very close to a tribulation timeframe now). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted September 1, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 350 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,512 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,411 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted September 1, 2021 26 minutes ago, TCC said: Yes I understand how you are breaking down commercial Babylon. I agree the 10 kings will be governance over regions. From what I understand, they will emerge toward the middle of the tribulation. So, as a pretribber, I don't believe we will get to see that. But it would appear from bowl 7 that it is a location. So just saying it seems like it would be a powerful nation. And right now (at least for now...lol) that would be America (if we are very close to a tribulation timeframe now). Daniel 7:24 (KJV) And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. Revelation 17:12 (KJV) And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. Where does it say or imply these 'ten kings' govern regions? On the contrary, they have no kingdom, yet. These "ten kings" are here, established and operating prior to the Tribulation, and before the Antichrist's revealing. To have a kingdom; one has to have a geographic area and subjects to reign and rule over. It appears the ten have great power over something the Beast needs, but it is not land or people, so what could the alternative be? They are given power and authority (kings) over something; that is not someone or somewhere geographic it appears. Three out of those ten, for some reason, decide not to play ball with the Beast. If I were elected governor of a state; I could say I was a king over a geographic region with subjects. Perhaps I'm missing something? Where do we get the idea these ten kings are over a geographical region or area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCC Posted September 2, 2021 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 59 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/02/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted September 2, 2021 On 9/1/2021 at 12:47 PM, Dennis1209 said: Daniel 7:24 (KJV) And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. Revelation 17:12 (KJV) And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. Where does it say or imply these 'ten kings' govern regions? On the contrary, they have no kingdom, yet. These "ten kings" are here, established and operating prior to the Tribulation, and before the Antichrist's revealing. To have a kingdom; one has to have a geographic area and subjects to reign and rule over. It appears the ten have great power over something the Beast needs, but it is not land or people, so what could the alternative be? They are given power and authority (kings) over something; that is not someone or somewhere geographic it appears. Three out of those ten, for some reason, decide not to play ball with the Beast. If I were elected governor of a state; I could say I was a king over a geographic region with subjects. Perhaps I'm missing something? Where do we get the idea these ten kings are over a geographical region or area? The way I understand it is that the Kings appoint themselves. We are not told the regions. But there are 10 toes on Daniels foot of statue. In some parts strong and in some parts weak. But it seems likely it is global because of Rev 13:7-9. HERE IS MY BREAKDOWN OF REVELATION It is highly likely that the 10 kings belong to the second half of the tribulation and not the first (thus they are mentioned toward the end of Revelation in chapter 17). Revelation chapter 13 looks to be the midpoint where AC demands worship. Some believe Rev 13 is the beginning of the triublation, but 13 is after 11. And chapter 11 has us up to the “end” of the trumpets. Chapter 14, 15, and 16 are regarding the second half bowl judgement period. Chapter 12 looks to be an overview from beginning to just past the midpoint. In any case chapters 17 & 18 focus on Mystery Babylon. And Mystery Babylon is destroyed by the very last bowl judgement 7. So there are three indicators that the 10 kings belong in the second half of the tribulation: Rev 13 appears after 11 (which 6-9, and 11 seem to have a linear forward motion–with some flash forwards included). Chapter 10 is highly likely the 144k inauguration for the second half. Please note that chapter 10 comes after chapters 6-9 which go in chronological order of the 7 seals and the 7 trumpets (leaving off at trumpet 6). Chapter 11 picks up trumpet 7. And chapter 15 picks up the bowl judgement that come out of the 7th trumpet. This leaves chapters 10, and 14, as “intermediary” chapters. For example, chapter 10 focuses on the little book and new witnessing. Chapter 14 is a table of contents to the second half. Chapter 15 is the heavenly scene (where as chapter 14 shows the earthly flip side echo of that chapter 15 heavenly scene…like inaugural form heaven and earth). PLEASE NOTICE HOW THE FLOW OF REVELATION LOOKS FROM A WIDE OVERVIEW A. Chapter 1 – John gets vision B. Chapter 2-3 Letters to the churches C. Chapters 4-5 Scene in heaven as John enters via vision D. Chapters 6-9 = seals & trumpets E. Chapter 10 = the little book (likely an inaugural celebration of Israel 144k to now witness) F. Chapter 11 = 2 Witnesses from beginning to mid point of trib G. Chapter 12 = From beginning to just past midpoint of trib. H. Chapter 13 = From midpoint to just past midpoint with AC focus I. Chapter 14 = Table of contents to the bowl judgements (the 3.5 year second half of tribulation) J. Chapter 15 = The opening ceremony of the final judgement cycle (bowls) K. Chapter 16 = The bowl judgements roll out L. Chapter 17 & 18 = Babylon the Great M. Chapter 19 = Armageddon Please notice how Babylon the great is mentioned in between chapters 16 and 19. Chapter 16 is the bowl judgements (including the total destruction of Babylon the Great). Yet we see Babylon the great in the following two chapters. And then, finally the last scene of the tribulation. So it looks like Babylon the Great is positioned and grouped as a second half phenomenon. And if so, likely too the 10 kings (who are just for the last hour primarily–or into the destruction of Mystery Babylon or Babylon the Great). If we look at Daniel chapter 7 all the 10 horns are on “the final” ruling kingdom head. This implies it to be the 7th head of the dragon in Rev 13. And the 7th/8th head in Rev 17. These seem to all be the same implicated head. Which lean toward the “final head.” Or the last of the last. In Rev 13, AC is only given 3.5 years to rule (not seven). These would be the last 3.5 not the first. Many people blend Revelation 13 as the beginning of the tribulation. But the book of Revelation is not layered out like that. Unless we perceive that all judgement sequences go off simultanously or like seal one, trumpet one, then bowl one…THEN seal two, trumpet two, and then bowl 2. but there are many problems with this view. for example Rev 13 says that the AC supernaturally comes back from the dead & demands worship then his image comes alive, talks, and demands the mark of the beast. That would mean all of that would have to happen under the first set. Because the first bowl is the blisters to the mark of the beast. That would likely all occur within the first 2 years while the two witnesses are running around. AC is given 42 months not twice that. It would make more sense that the supernatural 2 witnesses would not be competition with a supernatural AC. It would make sense that once the 2 witnesses ministry is over, the AC will kill them because in trumpet 5, that beast comes out of the abyss and empowers the AC supernaturally to do so. So AC does not have this supernatural power prior to trumpet 5. Hope that helps somewhat of where I am coming from. Blessings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptWalker Posted September 8, 2021 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 441 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 128 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/25/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/20/1970 Share Posted September 8, 2021 (edited) I have heard before that the events in Revelation are not all in order from chapter to chapter. Such as chapter 9 when those with the mark are already being tormented for 5 months. I also believe that is a reference to what Christ said about the "days of Noah", when it rained on the earth for 150 days(5 months), even though he was still in the ark for about another 7 months. And this could be the same as what will occur during the last year of the tribulation? Or also could be a reference to Ezekial 39:12 where they are burying the bodies for 7 months, but just throwing that out there and still not yet sure about it? [Correction-it was not raining for 150 days but the waters only "prevailed" on the earth during that time.] Edited September 21, 2021 by CaptWalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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