truecrosstrueshield

I'm not trying to change the topic here. But you had mentioned that Christians are on the sideline of the issues. Some people don't like the source of the post. It's not one that I regularly read but happened to come across. This article did come from a Christian Republic resource. We're our local paper usually favor Liberals and Democrats including the Washington Post. So that's why I was searching for sources from Christian articles. That's what brings me to this. As you say TFOC how Christians have to sit on the sidelines today. Our major national and local newspapers have been attacking Christians and having Christians on the sideline with no say. Issues like years ago Christians outside Disneyland protesting. Disneyland made Christians go away and favors the LGBTQ and not family morals. The last thing is that the Boy Scouts of America had gotten in trouble with 2 issues. Certain groups want them to stop praying to God. Plus they had to let go an openly gay scout leader. After that happened a number of people no longer donated to the scouts. They sources of these comes from the Orange County Register and the LA Times when I used to live in that area.

What do you think about this article? What do you think about the moral rights? https://www.wnd.com/2022/08/california-sued-trying-force-morals-churches/

Alright so most of us aren't a local Einstein, walking mathematician, calculator, and encyclopedia. But at least we got got memories right? In the year 2001 911 trade center 20 yr. anniversary. I had seen an article of the USS Cole that the terrorists had taken. Including how they had destroyed blowing up Buddha statues. After I read this in the Orange County register I knew this group of terrorists would do more damage to the United States. This is because I was getting monthly Christian news articles. These articles were already warning us to watch out for these terrorists. The only one I knew was Saddam Hussein. But I didn't think they would attack anything bigger than a supermarket etc. So I was at the shopping center in Orange County Calif. I saw this woman fully dressed in Islamic attire garments. I soon quickly remembered the USS Cole and my Christian letters warning us of the alQueda and such similar terrorist groups. I asked God right there this. If there's going to be terrorists attacks I pray that I'm not near whatever happens. I'm not hoping others will get killed. I do believe they'll go after someone sooner or later. I actually though did briefly talk to some Muslim people in those years peacefully. Since there's an Islamic shopping center near where I was. . The area is a melting pot of Spanish, Whites, Asian, Blacks, and Middle Eastern in other parts of Orange County. Including its well known UCI medical Irvine facility known by professional doctors nationwide respectfully. . A few weeks later Sept. 11th. I came out of my room and turned on the TV. I saw the planes crashing into the 2 Trade Center towers. I wasn't expecting the terrorists to do something this overwhelming and terrifying upon us. It changed my way of thinking. But all of a sudden people had US flags all over. People for once were acting kind and patriotic after the attack. At night after I left Bally's Fitness I saw people lining up on the sidewalks with candles and prayers. I was scared. Maybe this is the end times. Maybe the Antichrist would arrive soon. . After this attack I knew we'd be now constantly monitored world wise etc. . At least I did eventfully realize this was a major end time event that will lead us to the tribulation within probably our lifetime. . This event alone would propel not only America to a biblical end time scenario but even the rest of the worlds nations. . I've never seen people so scared in my life praying to God. I was nervous for awhile myself to say . . Now I'm asking others what are your memories of the September 911 attack on America?. . What was life back then 20 yrs. ago when you saw this happen? What did you think after seeing or hearing this news? Did it change your life or thinking? What about others around you also? . Since it's the 20th yr. anniversary share any Sept.11th memories. What's your take around this September time in 2001?. . Anything at all about this attack you remember yourself and your experiences feeling concern etc TV, news reports on the 911 and all what happened then. . Let talk about how we felt about this event 20 yrs ago. What we can remember at our best.

In the Book of Genesis 2:2-3 God rested on the 7th day. He made that day a holy day. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made. God said in Exodus 20 8-11 8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it. So God created our world in 6 days he rested on the 7th day. For it says in Genesis 2 he was finished and completed with his work. So it was on the 7th day the last day God had rested. On our wall calendar we have Saturday also known to Jews as Sabbath day or Shabbat. The 7th day and the last day. So you see in Revelation there are 7 scrolls, 7 trumps, and 7 bowls. The significance is 7 is symbolic to God as holy and complete all in 7 divisions. To God 7th means complete, final, and last. . There couldn't be 4 seals but 7. There couldn't be 4 trumpets but 7. There couldn't be 6 bowls but 7. Because the work of God must be complete. So think of the 1st trumpet and the 7th one. The Lord says Rev. 22:13 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the [a]Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.” So unto the 1st trumpet 1 unto the s7th is the last. That's why it's called the 7th last trumpet. Also it's called the last day. It's also called completed to the end. To the end of the age. To the end of the trib. . Rev.1:7 sees a pre look of Jesus return. 7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen. You'll also see Jesus at the 6th seal and the 7th trumpet. This doesn't mean Jesus came back multiple times. Because Revelation uses symbolic visions to describe God's showing us through pictures various ways to see the return of Jesus Christ using a number of symbolic pictures in Scriptures. When we add these pictures up we get a full central and peripheral view of things as our eyes can see in every direction. Like a school when you're testing. They'll say look at picture 1, 2, 3, and 4. Put this in order. .Those 4 pictures all connect. Jesus only returns at the end of the trib harvest day. Matt.13 36-43 36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.” 37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear! The dead shall also rise on that day those both to gather with him and others to be put to shame. This is the 1st Resurrection. Then will be the 1000 yrs. called the millennial kingdom. . Rev. 20 4-6 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for [a]a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. Let no one I pray to God not anyone to attack this post. . I did a lot of study on this to help others to understand and be ready. So we will go through the trib to be tested. Then those that will be saved will see Jesus at the end of those days. Only at the end of those days. Only at the 7th last completed loud trumpet sound to announce Jesus' final return. . Seventh Trumpet: The Kingdom Proclaimed Rev. 15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The [f]kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!” 16 And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17 saying: “We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, The One who is and who was [g]and who is to come, Because You have taken Your great power and reigned. 18 The nations were angry, and Your [h]wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth.” 19 Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of [i]His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail. Jesus only ascended once. He'll only descend just once. There's is no rapture in between. That's Hollywood's version of this take left behind movies. . Take your real bible and your cross. . See the real version of the end times. Choose phony Tim LaHayes Hollywood version or Gods Holy Bible version. I'm sure the choice should be easy to you who believes in the Lord always.

To the posters and the readers here I apologize for what has been taken place here. The debates turning quite harsh at times. But it was the poster named thelight who mostly was attacking us posters. Please don't believe the poster thelight. He believes in 2 raptures. He's both pre and post trib at once. This makes his teaching isolated and private. Read in the book of Peter. 2 Peter 1:20-2120 knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture came into being of its own private interpretation. 21 For prophecy was not borne at any time by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke being borne along by the Holy Spirit. He keeps emphasizing Luke 21:36. He believes this is the rapture. Please know that's absolutely not correctly biblical in its origin of Gods full meaning translation of Luke 21:36. 36 But stay alert at all times,[ce] praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that must[cf] happen, and to stand before the Son of Man.” Let me explain. The poster name diatse is good at looking up Greek and Hebrew words in his study. It is found the word escape in this particular verse Greek word is ekphuego. So therefore this word escape in Greek means this. To avoid morally and spiritually by praying and or enduring in the spirit. So you see this is why in Luke Jesus tells us to pray that we may escape all these things. Through praying to the Lord and keeping Gods will. This is what it means in James 1:12 12Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because, having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the LORD has promised to those who love him. Revelation 2:10 10Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you life as your victor's crown. Now let's connect this part escape that means to pray, endure to escape, and over come all these things. Part 2 Luke 31:36 is and you shall stand before the Son of Man. See because you did pray to God and you did what's right you had escaped or avoided all this testing during the days of the great tribulation. Because of this now you're worthy to stand before the Son of Man. Because this particular escape means ekphuego ... means on your own effort spiritually to avoid and or escape with asking God praying for strength and resisting all temptation. So people please this verse isn't a pre trib rapture some had assumed. This is why every century our churches always taught that Christian will go through the trib. While you don't see the word church, don't let that confuse you. Instead see the word saints. Saints are Gods people whether they attend church or even home bible study. If you believe and follow the Lord in any country, Jew or Gentile, and John 3:16 you are a saint of God. (16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. ) So the word saint in Revelation is full proof Christians God's people will go into tribulation to be tested by the devil through the man called the Antichrist. He that gives a mark 666. God commands us not to take this number for any reason at all. If anyone takes this will not be forgiven. Rev. 14: 9-12 9 Then a third angel followed the first two angels, saying in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and his idol and gets the beast’s mark on the forehead or on the hand, 10 that one also will drink the wine of God’s anger, which is prepared with all its strength in the cup of his anger. And that person will be put in pain with burning sulfur before the holy angels and the Lamb. 11 And the smoke from their burning pain will rise forever and ever. There will be no rest, day or night, for those who worship the beast and his idol or who get the mark of his name.” 12 This means God’s holy people must be patient. They must obey God’s commands and keep their faith in Jesus. For this number means one gave their soul to Satan by doing this. Your soul can't be bought back. Do not people take this number under any circumstances. Many will be killed by taking this. They that are killed and didn't are seen in Revelation with white robes. They gave their life unto the Lord God. . We need to get ready for the tribulation. Don't look for a pre trib rapture that will not in any circumstance happen at all. It's a lie and a deception to keep Christians to believe they will be gone for 7 yrs. Absolutely not. . Don't fall for that one. .The fictional books Left behind and movies aren't the bible. It's an author Tim LaHayes. Who do you believe this false teacher Tim LaHayes or Jesus in the bible? Also this poster thelight says the last trump isn't the 7th . The light poster is wrong on this also. Let me explain simply . .

Speaking of the phenomenon.. to all readers do you remember in 1997 the Heaven's Gate Cult movement? . The leader false prophet Marshall Applewhite was told by someone he was chosen from God. Applewhite brought these people to a special camp. They were looking very strange and to be celibate with some special eating diet. Was told that Haley's comet would be arriving a certain day. They'd need to get to the next level. The only way was to die and that their spirit would be caught up with this Haley comet as it passes over. They drank some poison stuff and covered themselves with a blanket. Wearing Nike shoes saying just do it. 39 people at this camp were found dead dressed up under these blankets. Marshall Applewhite - Wikipedia Let's not therefore make another mistake on this lesson. The word rapture is of rapture from the Latin Vulgate. The NT is translated in Greek not Latin. Stick with harpazo if you want its original wording. Rapture sounds like a UFO abduction term then what the bible isn't saying to us. Focus on its purpose to understand to be gathered unto the Lord Jesus Christ in the clouds. You're not taken up like UFO abduction. Rather invited to the wedding feast. So Jesus is the groom. The saints God's people are the virgins who meets the groom in the air that's being united to God now as one unto the Lord. Bodies being changed spiritually now immoral to live forever. If you're faithful to God he has chosen you to be a part of the wedding feast. You're from the harvest as of wheat even stored in the barn. So don't think the harpazo like a UFO taken away. It's rather a personal gathering to be assembled as one people under Gods authority. Not like a UFO abduction experiment. It's also perhaps those saved may not feel the great quake. But perhaps already in the clouds with Jesus. Rev. 16:20 20 Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. That's why listen to what Jesus says in Matt 24: 23-27 23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26“Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be So this will agree with Revelation 1:7. That every eye shall see him. Notice a bright flash of lightning is visible before your eyes. There's no secret about Jesus' return. When you read Matt 25 that you'll not know the day or hour. Still isn't a secret harpazo gathering harvest. It also says to stay watchful. If you're watching the thief won't take over you. To watch really mean to be in Christ faithfully unto his words. Not to part from the faith. To be ready is to be obedient in spirit to the Lord God. . Therefore you'll be ready when Jesus returns the 2nd time. You may not know the day or hour but you had oil in your lamps. As long as you do you'll be a part of the wedding feast meeting Christ Jesus in the clouds. So the lesson is keep your lamps full of oil. Meaning trust God always. Do his will. Then you'll have this oil to show you're meeting him the groom. 2 Thess. 2 1-3 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of [a]Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of [b]sin is revealed, the son of perdition, In Revelation we see he's in power nearly 3 1/2 yrs. . In the book of Daniel it tells us to wait at least 1335 days. Most likely not less. . Even still if you don't know the day or hour study the things Jesus told us including 1 & 2 Tim. etc end time prophecies. . Don't be deceived by this pre trib rapture theory. Don't let Jesus represents a UFO abduction taken out before the trib. That's false friends. . I've looked into this many times pre and post outlook comparison views. . Another poster here biblelesson says the more she read the more she couldn't find a pre trib rapture in scripture. Exactly. Many Christians are realizing the more you study the more you'll see there's no Scripture supporting a pre trib rapture and realizing why we need to meet Jesus at the end of the age. The end of the trib. Don't let anyone say Jesus is here in the desert or in the inner room. Not even before the trib. That's mans announcement. There's no Hebrew or Greek for a definition word pre trib anything. . In ancient language we can't derive a pre trib gathering not even in the dead sea scrolls or anything in KJV James 1611 translation bible we have today . . Pre trib is theoretic. It's a hope of gambling when it's a theory and not truth. Tim Lahayes even knows this theory isn't guaranteed. They only hope it could be true to get out early. We should not gamble that chance. Get ready for the end times quickly coming our way. Put on your armor and shield and call upon the name of the Lord. . Let's walk in the time by faith and not by sight. .Keep believing in the Lord. Desire to know him and to receive the crown of life. Keep praying all true Christian believers. Your friend tsheild

When Jesus came the 1st time it was the star of Bethlehem a sign in the heaven. Jesus will return a 2nd time a signs again in heaven. The sun, moon, and the stars etc described in Matt. 24 and others parts of the bible. He'll return only a 2nd time at the end of those days on the last 7th trumpet only. That's the only trumpet mentioned to announce Jesus' return. . Concerning the harvest this. Matt. 24:23-35 32 “Now learnthis parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that [e]it is near—at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away. Jesus in this parable of the fig tree is talking about 1 harvest. He said when summer is near you know the fig tree is ripe. Jesus only said summer. Not any other part of the year. So there can't be in this parable a 2nd one. This also. It's important to know Matthew 13: 24-30 24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ’ ” That's why John the Baptist said about Jesus this. Matt.3:12 12 His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” So you see Jesus owns the field. He sent out harvesters the angels to gather both wheat and tares in the field. Not only is the just gathered unto Christ. Even the people who rebelled against God shall also be gathered separated to be judged by God. . Like those who took the mark for example . .Even those from the grave both Gods people and the unjust will be called from the grave. Some to glory. Others to shame. This is a true harvest. If anyone says only gather the wheat and leave the tares behind that's not a true harvest. If he leaves the tares there how can he plant new crops? Most likely not. The weeds would multiply or taking the new crops. So he needs to rid of the tares as well as the wheat. . During the trib these aren't tribulation saints left behind. There's no such bible word pre trib saints. These are the saints that were saints before the trib that are now going into it and also throughout history. Plus even new believers that'll be formed during those terrible days. Matt.24:22 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened. Not only Jews since we aren't to divide them any longer. In John 10:16 Jesus says 16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. Don't separate this into 2 people Jews and Gentiles. Place them in one fold like Jesus did. Don't desperate these events and not adding new trumpets. . This all counts in 1 day. Called the Day of the Lord. Pray unto God you and all your friends and family and even others to have hope for this day. Ok forward to this blessed hope everlasting salvation for those who were true and faithful to him now and always, before and even during any trial good or not so good. . Then the Lord shall give you and us only if we listen and continue to follow the way of the Lord God.

Light I read Luke 21 and looking into the meaning of this verse 36 you keep talking about. Your current way of going about this verse is similar what happened to talk show host Oprah Winfrey. She was once a Baptist church attender. But when she was reading in the OT she read the words saying I'm a jealous God. Therefore Oprah interpreted that God was envious and jealous of us people. By that one verse only she's no longer a Christian. She thinks God is jealous of others. She has made her own version of God and salvation. In likewise you're taking this verse Luke 21:36 wrong. All scriptures leading to this verse must be considered carefully before verse 36 that'll make more sense within this chapter. Diaste is right about ekpheugo interpretation. It means to evade or avoid spiritually or morally upon making these difficult decisions. https://www.bing.com/search?q=greek+to+english+translator&form=ANNTH1&refig=9cf9d44c8a814e0e81ee775809e5c4c8&sp=1&qs=HS&sk=PRES1&sc=8-0&cvid=9cf9d44c8a814e0e81ee775809e5c4c8 Harpazo is different. It means to grab and take hold of to take upward. https://www.bing.com/search?q=greek+to+english+translator&form=ANNTH1&refig=9cf9d44c8a814e0e81ee775809e5c4c8&sp=1&qs=HS&sk=PRES1&sc=8-0&cvid=9cf9d44c8a814e0e81ee775809e5c4c8 So harpzo is a different meaning than ekpheugo. Ekpheugo that Diaste looked up is correct in this verse. It's you escaping and avoiding all these things. Not a pre trib rapture. In this Luke 21 Jesus is telling us all what will happen earthquakes, wars, persecutions, the Antichrist, end time mark etc. Jesus wants us to watch these things. He's also saying therefore pray with all your strength to resist all temptations. Like not stealing, or getting too weak in case you get hungry and too desperate to take the mark. So this verse you share hasn't to do with a rapture harpazo. So light if you can endure and watch these things, pray to God then you'll be worth on your own effort to ask God to give you strength to endure these things. You'll then be accounted worthy doing all this. When you do stand before the Son of God you proved to be worthy that you had endured the trials of the days of the tribulation. Because you passed this great testing you're now worthy to stand before the Son of Man. . Therefore light you can be taken by the Lord Jesus. Not before the trib since you hadn't endured this testing. Rather if you pass the testing through the trib you'll be worthy of Jesus' second coming. You then can be gathered among the righteous of Gods people and the tens of thousand and thousands whom also endured those greats days. Here I'll put KJV your verse then the NCV side by side an updated English to what this verse is saying to us . . KJV Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. NCV Luke 21:36 So be ready all the time. Pray that you will be strong enough to escape all these things that will happen and that you will be able to stand before the Son of Man.” Don't think that everything in Revelation of the visions John is like a movie . . every vision isn't always in the order you thought it was supposed to be in. For example Revelation 1:7. 7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen. See Jesus is seen in the clouds. And every one sees him. Even they that pierced him they shall mourn. Since the world saw him with their eyes this can't be a pre trib rapture. This is a post trib harpazo. Yet see every eye can see him. No secret rapture like pre trib teaches. Notice the post trib rapture Rev. 1 is before Rev 4 and 5. Explain how the post trib happened before this pre trib you're talking about in Rev. This is a vision from John a pre look of the future what's to come. Rev. 1: “I am the Alpha and the Omega,[d]the Beginning and the End,” says the [e]Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” In Revelation sometimes like when Satan was caste out of heaven that was a before aspect. Then 1/3 of angels went down with him. That occurred several 1000 years ago. . Currently the devil is on the earth. Even during those days in the future. Only God himself can tell us the past, present, and future all at once. God's telling us what did happen, what's happening now, and what in the future will happen. Can Satan change his mind that he knows what's said in Revelation? No. God knew the future. There's no way for him to get out. He'll do exactly that what God already seen in the future. To understand God describes Satan origins in the past. So you need to study Revelation very carefully. Let it be only Gods timing and how he ordered events. We can't demand what shall happen in what way we want. .We may have some answers on these things. Certainly not all. . That's where God comes in. Let the prophecy unfold. Then to keep watch on these things. Keep praying for Gods strength. Even during the great trib continue watching and praying. . For if you endure the time of trouble during the trib then you can stand before the Son of Man. .

I'll answer everyone at the same time since I did start this topic. I actually became post trib by the bible alone. Because I was at another Christian forum the more I read in the bible the more post trib was making more sense. However I needed more help from those more experienced on the post view. I stuck to post only because a few verses I found myself makes more sense to me. But I like the answers better also in my post trib reading articles etc. honestly to me pre trib makes no sense any longer in this picture .. To light. You're the only person I know that accepts both pre and post views simultaneously. Everyone else is either pre or post trib mostly and the fewer preturist and rare mid tribbers. Light your interpretation seems to be unique and different. But also private to the rest of us. We haven't heard someone believing in a church rapture and the end of trib gathering of the tribes both being true. It seems here pre trib is most popular by itself. But I understand. I've been told post trib currently is less popular. That doesn't intimidate me. When Jesus sent out disciples at first most people otherwise didn't believe the same as the 12 or 72. Stephen shown an example a new believer outnumbered who opposed his faith in Jesus. I pick one choice which is the post trib original teaching in our churches over the centuries. Even early writers over the centuries teaching Jesus only returns once after the tribulation. There will be no pre trib commentaries in 200AD, 700AD, 1400Ad and even 1776 AD either. The bible tells us about the falling away. I believe the pre trib is apostasy teaching since it arrived nearly close to 1850 yrs. after Jesus being on the cross. This began pre trib in the 19th century. Also these often 19th century false teachings as well. 1 The Latter Day Saints, Mormons founded by Joseph Smith Jr and his brother Hyman and Brigham Young kept this Mormon church going after Joseph Smith was killed in prison. We here at home read the official newspaper online story. He tried to break the printing press that partly got him arrested. Being too pushy about his Mormon beliefs on people in the area. They didn't like his teaching and attacked him while he was in jail . . they didn't want this teaching to spread. Brigham however escaped to Utah to keep this going. 2 The Jehovah Witnesses also in the 19th century. The founder is Charles Taze Russell. They used to be called the Russellites. It's in the 20th century they changed to Jehovah Witness. They've been known to keep predicting the end times and Armageddon. I studied with them shortly. I don't agree with them so much anymore. 3 The 7th Day Adventist. This church seems to be mostly preturists. I've looked into. They believe the pope is the worse person ever. They don't believe in end times, or in hell like we do either. It's a very bizarre religion. . They also follow Ellen G White a prophetess. Originally they were known as the Millerites whose someone last name was Miller of course. Since the Millerites prophecy kind of didn't work Ellen took over with her new prophecy to build off the Millerites. Now known as 7th Day Adventist. . 4 Charles Darwin. Well you know what he's about. The falling away I believe started in the 19th century. Not the 20th . In God's eyes 200 yrs is short anyways. According to what's said in 2 Peter 3:8 8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. To Joseb. What's my view? My view is that we're people. God needs to repeat to us over and over throughout the bible. It's partly the way he teaches us. Just like a parent does to a child correcting over and over. It also goes to show God lives in every generation. His words will stay consistent from one prophet writer to the next. God is says that a number of times throughout bible scripture. That's why I'm post trib only. Let me describe this way. Take the 4 gospel writers. You'll see they write some of the same testimonies they've seen and heard etc. While yet they can differ because of experiences in others testimonies. Imagine if the 4 disciples are in the same country. One is in the east side. One in the west side. Third south and fourth north. . You're seeing 4 different aspects in the same country in different places. Now think about photographs instead. Each disciples took their own pictures of the same things at different angles, reflections of lights, and shadows within pictures. . So it's in the debate post and pre trib angles. Who sees what? Why don't we agree on this? In my case I believe post trib because everything I see is agreeing. God is saying different books or chapters a bit different. Because you see he does this in words. There's more describing in words than taking pictures. . The bible is showing us the same events in a number of angles. Christians are arguing about before and after the trib. Each side says they have enough scriptural evidence to support their rapture view . . even Light believes his views and Scriptures can support both pre and post aspects. Therefore we're not coming to the same conclusion no matter how many times we post anything we share at the forum. I believe the same gathering is being mentioned over a number of times. A few different wording differences to show a number of angles. .Here's what I see in the post trib aspect.. Matt. 13 the wheat and the tares. This is the harvest at the end of the age. The angels are the harvesters. They gather both the wheat and the tares in the same harvest. . This happens on the same day. You'll see in the book of Daniel God sends Michael the angel to call the dust from the graves. Some to glory and others to shame. Michael's one of the angels in this harvest gathering to bring to God to be judged. . This is also called the 1st resurrection. The 1st resurrection happens also on the day of harvest. The day of the Lord of his appearing in the clouds. . The wheat Gods people will be gathered separately in the clouds above the earth the 1st heaven the sky. . They represent what John the Baptist said this wheat stored in the barn. And the tares represent what John said the chaff will be burned up. All this is the same topic. Even what John said. Even Matthew 13, 24 ,25, 1 & 2 Thess, 2 Cor., Jude and Revelation chapters concerning the harvest and or any time Jesus is mentioned being in the clouds. . It's the same event mentioned over and over at a number of words and angles. It may look or appear different to us. But scripture agrees upon Scriptures. It can't be divided against itself. Would God give a complete different testimony to Matthew? And completely different to Apostle Paul? That's not like God. Apostle Paul tells us we only have 1 gospel and one truth. This shows the story isn't changing. God's teaching by repeating to us over and over like a father would. So then we would know for sure. . This is the day of the Lord, the gathering and to Christ in the clouds all believers at the end of the tribulation only. The day of the harvest, and the 1st resurrection . . But all these books, chapters, and names there's yet one major event that happens on one day alone . … You've heard over the years the second coming of Jesus Christ. Second return. Stop there. . If you add pre trib rapture that makes it 2 ½ returns.. That would make the prophecy wrong. If Jesus does appear literally in our atmosphere that counts even scientifically a return. Examples like this. You see the sun outside. But did the sun land on the earth? No. Did the sun rise at all? No. But the earth was spinning to make it look like the sun did rise. . You say I was outside in the sun. Even though it's nearly 93 million miles away. But you saw it within the atmosphere. That's all that counts. . So if Jesus enters the atmosphere that counts as a return to what's called the earths atmosphere. In Genesis 1: 6-8 God created this atmosphere around the earth. It would help us breathe and retain water clouds etc for the purpose of the earth. . The atmosphere is a part of our earths environment. . Jesus would have to go down all 6 layers till he gets to the clouds 10 or so miles in the air . . At that moment he's more than 95% to the earth . Much more than 1/2 way. That's an official return. . So if Jesus came that far for a pre trib rapture that counts for return 2. If Jesus also returned after the trib that's 3. That's why post trib is most biblical and even scientifically correct as well proven. And to missmuffet. The church isn't mentioned from after Rev. 4-19. It's because there won't be a church legally allowing to teach God in the bible. The Antichrist won't allow Christians to assemble at local churches. During these chapters not to do with Epistle to the church as of earlier chapters to the 7 churches. These chapters are about Johns vision God had given him. . Instead there are saints on the earth scattered about. Many of them being persecuted. And lastly in Matthew 24 those days were shortened for the sake of the elect. Could the elect be the unsaved people on earth? No. The elect is Gods people who were here during the trib. . They will see Jesus by the end of the tribulation period.

Hi light I was a pre trib rapture believer for 14 yrs. Even these two book authors started out for years being pre trib rapture. Most of us in this day and age started with that view point. Since it has become a main stream church teaching at Calvary Baptist etc churches. I used to watch church TV 7 days a week. All end times programs especially. . So I know the pre trib view of the rapture before the trib aspect. However I was at Jesus is Lord God JILG forums. I was telling them about pre trib. I couldn't understand why JILG members disagreed with me. They didn't believe me. I wrote to the Tim Lahayes end times ministries to help me. They wrote to me that they don't get involved in discussion forums. So that left me isolated by myself as the only pre trib rapture member at JILG. 1 member said I had itching ears. I didn't leave. I still enjoyed a number of regular biblical discussions and general topics. I still got along with them. Then one member named Bill told me in my pm he used to be pre trib himself. Now he's post trib. He gave me a couple of links. What did I do? Surprising answer. I deleted them right away. I was so confident in pre trib that I believe post is false. Not worth reading. I was like you are now. I know how you try to defend this pre trib rapture teaching. Because it's so popular of a view today who could argue them?. That's how I felt. But suddenly I was in a debate in the prophecy. As I wanted the right answers I read more and more. You know what I found? That post tribulation was actually right. JILG forums was trying to warn me. I didn't believe them. Now I understand why they didn't believe in my pre trib posting thread. . I have read both sides of these views. Even the preturist view a little bit as well. That group believes that in 70AD all this is past. There's no future trib. That's why they're called preturists. While pre and post trib are called futurists. I learn this by Tim Lahyes news articles I used to receive. . 14 yrs I was pre trib rapture believer. Now for 7 yrs I'm now a post trib bliever. Those that are pre may become post trib as I've seen. Those that become post don't become pretrib. Because the post show you better detailed explanations on the scriptures pre tells you differently. . Post trib will even prove pre doesn't even exist. What doesn't exist can't even happen at all. . Now here are some things to consider. In Acts 1:11 11who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven,will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.” Notice he went straight from the ground into the sky. Only once. If he returns in the same like manner he only needs to descend from the clouds only down once. That would fulfill the prophecy in the same like manner. If there's a pre trib he would bounce back up. That's not like the same like manner. That's different and not the same way he left. . We can't consider the clouds like a trampoline Jesus springing back upward again. . In fact Jesus doesn't have to do that. Enoch for example. He was taken by God and vanished. God didn't have to show up in the clouds not mentioned. Enoch was taken. But not because of danger. God didn't take Noah off the earth to keep him safe. Rather in a boat. . What about the children of the Hebrews? God sent 10 plagues in Egypt. Gods people were there in Egypt when this occurred. God showed he was all mighty. He spared his people. Even they in the same land of the same 10 plagues. He knows how to make a difference between his people and the Egyptians. In likewise those things mentioned in Revelation won't be poured out on true believers. As like Egypt God will make a difference. The blood that was over the doorpost saved Gods people in the Passover. So during the trib while Christians are on earth they'll have Jesus representing his blood. Jesus sacrificed his blood to save us. God will see this upon believers during the trib. They will not receive any bowls or trumpets etc. Only they that are evil and or unbelieving people. . Example Rev. 3:10 The word keep in this verse is an ancient word meaning to guard or to watch. So God is actually watch or keep guard over you in that hour. Job the most dedicated man of God tested by the devil wasn't taken up. Even John the Baptist wasn't taken before his death. . How then can Christians believe they're more special than all of these mentioned?. . As they were tested then. Christians will be tested during the trib. . Here are some scriptures.. Many Christian leaders teach from their pulpits that “the Church” will NOT go through Earth’s final “tribulation,” but will instead be “raptured” or taken to heaven before the final crisis takes place. This teaching is comforting to those that accept it. But is that what the Bible teaches? Throughout the ages believers have without a doubt suffered “tribulation” and the Scriptures teach that this will continue till the Second Coming of Jesus Christ at the end. The word “tribulation” in the New Testament, almost every verse applies to what faithful believers go through, rather than what they escape from. Let’s examine these references: “Jesus said there would be “great tribulation” which His followers (the “elect”) must endure. Yet for “the elects sake, those days shall be shortened” (Matthew 24:21,22).“Jesus Christ said to His followers, “In the world YOU shall have tribulation, but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world” ( John 16:33). Paul told Christians, “WE through much tribulation must enter the kingdom of God” (Acts 14:22). “True Christians are to “glory in tribulations” because “tribulation works patience” and develops Christian character” (Romans 5:3). Paul wrote of the many “persecutions and tribulations” which “the churches of God” were enduring in the first century (Christians were thrown to the lions in the coliseum, eaten by wild dogs, burned at the stake and lit up as torches in Nero’s garden)-2 Thessalonians 1:4. John was our “companion in tribulation” (Revelation 1:9). To His church, Jesus said, “I know your works and tribulation…” (Revelation 2:9). Again to His church, Jesus said, “YOU shall have tribulation…” (Revelation 2:10). God’s final people “came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb” (Revelation 7:14). They did not escape it, but endured through it, being purified. The Scriptures reveal that believers have at all times gone through “tribulation” and will suffer tribulations until the end. But the good news is that, believers need not be afraid for Christ promised, “Lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the world” (Matthew 28:20). Through the gift of the Holy Spirit, Christ would be closer to His faithful children even more than when He was living on this earth (John 16:7). And He will strengthen them to overcome all the powers of darkness (Luke 10:19). I also notice pre trib keep skipping over Matthew 24 and jump into some other book. Read Matt. 24 Find any pre trib rapture mentioned? You won't find any. No. Jesus isn't referring only to the Jews. This chapter is for all believers. If you say it's only for Jews you have made a distinction. Remember this verse. KJV Gal. 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. We can't say Matthew or the NT is partly for Jews and Orthodox pastors are for Christians and or Gentiles. . So the entire NT is for any Christians any people where they live. . Matthew 24 will show Christians will go through this as Israel will. Why did God only warn Israel in Matt, 24 and not the rest of us? Answer. Because the Antichrist will reside only in Jerusalem Israel or Judea. Only this place will become an abomination of desolation. They have to flee to the wilderness. Since in America or Thailand for example the Antichrist will not physically be near them. .Therefore each situation for us may vary from one person and one place to another. Judea however can't get around the Antichrist who'll be going after the Jews directly with his army of men. . Lastly this. Hal lyndsay wrote a book called 88 reasons why Jesus will return in 1988. His book of course is wrong. He's a pre trib teacher still. Do you believe in someone already being wrong? John Hagee wrote a book a few years ago about the blood moons. Saying these may lead to a pre trib rapture for the church. John Hagee was wrong years ago from now. He's a pre trib rapture teacher. . Jack van Impe announced he believes in UFO's. Not kidding. I stopped watching him after that very episode. He teaches pre trib rapture. . Tim Lahayes takes people quotes. A number of times he'll take those quotes off. He'll insert his own lines not noticeable. Sometimes he'll change its meaning to shift to his own pre trib teaching . . plus as I got letters from Tim Lahayes along with Ed Hindson. In every letter they're always asking for money. I have a witness here who saw these letters. She couldn't believe how greedy Tim Lahayes and Ed Hindson are . . They said they can't give me all updates unless each person to donate $100 or more a month. . Because I was on SSI I could give $25 to $40 a month. That's not good enough for Tim Lahayes and Ed Hindson end times ministry. Guess they don't like the poor. More pre trib teachers. . None of the post trib teachers asked for anything except a book. That was it. Who is fair and honest to us? I'm a concerned Christian. So that Christians would be ready. You don't want to be stuck having no water or food to save. Also you'll have to time to have shelter. The devil doesn't want you to have food or water ready. He wants Christians to believe they won't be here. So Christians won't resist or protest against the Antichrist. If you get ready instead the tribulation that's ahead of us.

There are terms such as pre trib and post trib. Ladd will explain in the book the difference between pre and post and that Jesus will take the church before the 7yr tribulation. While the post trib believes that the church will be taken at the end of the trib. To gather the true believers to come down to the earth. Now what these 2 groups have in common that we live in the church age. Therefore we both believe that the church age is before the 1000 yr millennium. So both groups believers believe in pre millennium. Because they both agree there will be a literal 1000 yrs after the tribulation. So read more in Ladd's book because many Christians get confused with these similar looking words. He'll them up. He'll show you the differences and similarities between these 2 groups. I hope this cleared things up. BTW I recommend to read the Bob Mitchell book first because his explanation is more easier to comprehend.

People don't want to trust America anymore. After all the west hemisphere is not directly mentioned in end time prophecies. Like WW2 we will rather join in whatever war is required the US to be a part of the end times wars. However not the key player. God can't mention every nation in end time wars. Rather only who's starting these conflicts. So we can like a radar make more of a notice who'll really put this on the center stage. Why would God mention 200 countries at once? . . That's why America isn't directly mentioned. So it's making more sense the US is losing its popularity status police cop etc. Actually persecution should be on its way sooner than you think. For example mandatory federal workers having to get vaccine shots. Notice mandated. . The mark quite similar. The government will pursue those not taking this mark of Rev.13 17-18. The mandated vaccines are a pre- look on what will become of full government control world wide. Plus pope Francis has a global school in the Chicago area. As you can see he's pushing for a full globalized world soon. Awhile ago he signed and approved by the UN schools world wide to accept humanitarianism. What we know as secular humanism. Now schools can teach that there can be 2 fathers and 2 mothers. Kids can be gay or lesbians at school legally under what pope Francis signed world wide. . Christians won't be able to protest what's now globally official already signed . . this was done behind your back. . Pope Francis is lining up all groups to join this so call global peace alliance. Every race and most world religions to unite as one people. Doesn't this remind you of the Tower of Babel? Everyone united with one common idea. . Christians that will try to speak against any of this will not be able to. In fact others will say we Christians are prejudice hateful people. They'll say what's wrong with gay marriage? Our schools teach it just fine. Saying you can't accept them who they are. They won't want to hear any bible verses either. Remember Oprah Winfrey herself stopped this woman oh her show talking about Jesus. Oprah forced that woman to sit down. . The liberal theology is moving in lots of churches scaring true Christians to leave. Where does this leave Christians to go?. . That's why the bible tells us Christians and Jews will be hated by all nations. Anyone pertaining to God of the Holy Bible our generation will hate us quickly. . This leads to an anti-Christian society that'll herald in the Antichrist. A generation who hates God. They'll accept his way of speech etc. There's not a pre trib rapture like Tim Lahayes or John Hagee etc says. Since the early church writers have always told us Christians will go through the whole tribulation. The saints of God will be persecuted. Mentioned throughout Revelation. Don't say they are different ones. Why would God allow them to be persecuted as saints and you escaped before them? Why would God rapture the dead that shall rise first? How would he keep the dead out of danger from the trib to bring them upward?. . If you believe in pre trib you then believe in 2 last trumpets. That means the 7th trumpet. You can't believe in 2 last 7 trumpets. There can only be 1 last 7th. The pre trib is a legend born in the 19th century that spread throughout European churches and now in local churches. One was a prophetess named Margaret MacDonald that used a split 2 part Jesus return pre trib rapture. As she didn't believe in the early church writers. Also a Jesuit priest book author also took this split rapture into 2 parts. His book was well known in Europe. Tim Lahyes and Hagee refuse to look into pre trib rapture history. And of course others that teach this. Many Christians want to leave before the trib. But that's not Gods will. . Scripture agrees upon scripture. . And verses within context For example he will be taken out of the way. You may assume the church is. Why? Did you not read in the same chapter that the Day of the Lord can't happen until the man of sin be revealed? See the Antichrist man of sin has to happen before Jesus returns. We can't reverse that order. That's disagreeing with God. Plus he taken out of the way isn't the church. The church is the bride. The church is a she and not a he. . That's the importance of reading whole chapters to get a more correct biblical translation trying your best to agree with God as much as one can understand . . In 1 Thessalonians many Christians assume Jesus took them into the literal heaven. But there isn't words saying he did. In every picture Jesus is shown in the clouds. There is no verse that says he went back up. That's only speculation. That's why it's called the pre trib rapture theory. You don't believe in big bang theory. You don't believe in evolution theory. You shouldn't believe in pre trib rapture theory. Because theory is a mans guess. That doesn't equal prophetic truth. The post trib has always been taught in our churches for centuries. And was that he fallen away. This pre trib took over in the 19th century pushing post trib out . . we need to get back to our roots. . Stop believing the modern pre trib rapture fable . . The reason why the church isn't mentioned between Rev 4-19 in the bible is because at this time the world is being tested by the devil. Do you think the devil is going to allow you to go to church listening to Jesus? Absolutely not. You'll be finding rather safe places to stay. . Rather during the trib Christians will be scattered world wide trying to figure out how to survive without the mark. . There's only one return of Jesus always taught throughout most of our history. . Believe in the first post trib teaching. Not the latter days pre trib legend . . There's 2 good books from George E. Ladd The Blessed Hope and Bob Mitchell The Post Tribulation Rapture of the Church Exposing the Pre- Tribulation Rapture Deception . .the harvest is at the end of each season. The harvest is at the end of the trib. End means end and last means last. . Both the just and unjust will be gathered. The just unto the Lord. The unjust the Lord will send them away. They will not see life. In Rev when it says endure to the end. Jesus also means the end of the trib or as far as you can go. . So a pre trib rapture isn't enduring to an end. That's too easy. It's not a hard test. . Are you willing to give your life unto the Lord? Then be willing to enter the trib. Whom will people follow? The Lord God of the bible or the world dictator Antichrist? . . If your answer is Jesus now let it also be Jesus then. . They that endure to the end will receive the crown of life. Redemption is near. That means several years when the trib begins. About 7 or so nearly to say. That's near enough. . Watch now the secular is being enforced world wide. Watch out for angry crowds that hate Christianity. Government control and everything else. . . Prophecy needs to fall in place as God wanted us to . Leaving is backing out of Gods plan. God is allowing those days of testing. . Do you love the Lord? Then keep watch and be ready for all the things God has ahead of us. .

Pretty interesting post Dennis. I believe you're right about the current Middle East situation. How people don't want to trust America anymore. After all the west hemisphere is not directly mentioned in end time prophecies. Like WW2 we will rather join in whatever war is required the US to be a part of the end times wars. However not the key player. God can't mention every nation in end time wars. Rather only who's starting these conflicts. So we can like a radar make more of a notice who'll really put this on the center stage. Why would God mention 200 countries at once? . . That's why America isn't directly mentioned. So it's making more sense the US is losing its popularity status police cop etc. However when you say redemption draws nigh. Yes near. But it isn't the next thing on the prophetical calendar of dispensation events. Or to say of in the correct order of end time events. Actually persecution should be on its way sooner than you think. For example mandatory federal workers having to get vaccine shots. Notice mandated. . The mark quite similar. The government will pursue those not taking this mark of Rev.13 17-18. The mandated vaccines are a pre- look on what will become of full government control world wide. Plus pope Francis has a global school in the Chicago area. As you can see he's pushing for a full globalized world soon. Awhile ago he signed and approved by the UN schools world wide to accept humanitarianism. What we know as secular humanism. Now schools can teach that there can be 2 fathers and 2 mothers. Kids can be gay or lesbians at school legally under what pope Francis signed world wide. . Christians won't be able to protest what's now globally official already signed . . this was done behind your back. . Pope Francis is lining up all groups to join this so call global peace alliance. Every race and most world religions to unite as one people. Doesn't this remind you of the Tower of Babel? Everyone united with one common idea. . Christians that will try to speak against any of this will not be able to. In fact others will say we Christians are prejudice hateful people. They'll say what's wrong with gay marriage? Our schools teach it just fine. Saying you can't accept them who they are. They won't want to hear any bible verses either. Remember Oprah Winfrey herself stopped this woman oh her show talking about Jesus. Oprah forced that woman to sit down. . The liberal theology is moving in lots of churches scaring true Christians to leave. Where does this leave Christians to go?. . That's why the bible tells us Christians and Jews will be hated by all nations. Anyone pertaining to God of the Holy Bible our generation will hate us quickly. . This leads to an anti-Christian society that'll herald in the Antichrist. A generation who hates God. They'll accept his way of speech etc. There's not a pre trib rapture like Tim Lahayes or John Hagee etc says. Since the early church writers have always told us Christians will go through the whole tribulation. The saints of God will be persecuted. Mentioned throughout Revelation. Don't say they are different ones. Why would God allow them to be persecuted as saints and you escaped before them? Why would God rapture the dead that shall rise first? How would he keep the dead out of danger from the trib to bring them upward?. . If you believe in pre trib you then believe in 2 last trumpets. That means the 7th trumpet. You can't believe in 2 last 7 trumpets. There can only be 1 last 7th. The pre trib is a legend born in the 19th century that spread throughout European churches and now in local churches. One was a prophetess named Margaret MacDonald that used a split 2 part Jesus return pre trib rapture. As she didn't believe in the early church writers. Also a Jesuit priest book author also took this split rapture into 2 parts. His book was well known in Europe. Tim Lahyes and Hagee refuse to look into pre trib rapture history. And of course others that teach this. Many Christians want to leave before the trib. But that's not Gods will. . Scripture agrees upon scripture. . And verses within context For example he will be taken out of the way. You may assume the church is. Why? Did you not read in the same chapter that the Day of the Lord can't happen until the man of sin be revealed? See the Antichrist man of sin has to happen before Jesus returns. We can't reverse that order. That's disagreeing with God. Plus he taken out of the way isn't the church. The church is the bride. The church is a she and not a he. . That's the importance of reading whole chapters to get a more correct biblical translation trying your best to agree with God as much as one can understand . . In 1 Thessalonians many Christians assume Jesus took them into the literal heaven. But there isn't words saying he did. In every picture Jesus is shown in the clouds. There is no verse that says he went back up. That's only speculation. That's why it's called the pre trib rapture theory. You don't believe in big bang theory. You don't believe in evolution theory. You shouldn't believe in pre trib rapture theory. Because theory is a mans guess. That doesn't equal prophetic truth. The post trib has always been taught in our churches for centuries. And was that he fallen away. This pre trib took over in the 19th century pushing post trib out . . we need to get back to our roots. . Stop believing the modern pre trib rapture fable . . The reason why the church isn't mentioned between Rev 4-19 in the bible is because at this time the world is being tested by the devil. Do you think the devil is going to allow you to go to church listening to Jesus? Absolutely not. You'll be finding rather safe places to stay. . Rather during the trib Christians will be scattered world wide trying to figure out how to survive without the mark. . There's only one return of Jesus always taught throughout most of our history. . Believe in the first post trib teaching. Not the latter days pre trib legend . . There's 2 good books from George E. Ladd The Blessed Hope and Bob Mitchell The Post Tribulation Rapture of the Church Exposing the Pre- Tribulation Rapture Deception . .the harvest is at the end of each season. The harvest is at the end of the trib. End means end and last means last. . Both the just and unjust will be gathered. The just unto the Lord. The unjust the Lord will send them away. They will not see life. In Rev when it says endure to the end. Jesus also means the end of the trib or as far as you can go. . So a pre trib rapture isn't enduring to an end. That's too easy. It's not a hard test. . Are you willing to give your life unto the Lord? Then be willing to enter the trib. Whom will people follow? The Lord God of the bible or the world dictator Antichrist? . . If your answer is Jesus now let it also be Jesus then. . They that endure to the end will receive the crown of life. Redemption is near. That means several years when the trib begins. About 7 or so nearly to say. That's near enough. . Watch now the secular is being enforced world wide. Watch out for angry crowds that hate Christianity. Government control and everything else. . . Prophecy needs to fall in place as God wanted us to . Leaving is backing out of Gods plan. God is allowing those days of testing. . Do you love the Lord? Then keep watch and be ready for all the things God has ahead of us. .

Here is something I thought may be interested to ask on the board. Please just don't think there are curtains behind me that you'll win prizes for getting good answers here. I don't supply them here. Ask Pat Sajak. Everyone has 2 options which they choose for their answers. The 2 options are chapters you like in the bible 4 of them or second option instead. 4 scriptures you like in the bible. So if you take option 1 pick 4 chapters. This for example. I may pick Genesis 12, Jonah 1, Matthew 5 and Acts 4. So this first option you can choose. Pick 4 chapters in a standard bible. No added chapters like Maccabees in catholic bibles Only the 27 books NT and 39 OT chapters choices. Standard Christian KJV and similar versions. Option 2 is if you prefer not what chapter then you instead can pick 4 verses that you like in a standard bible. This for example. Genesis 1:1. Exodus 20:9 John 3:16 and Philippians 4:13 . . These aren't my choices. These are just examples how this works. So pick 1 of the 2 options. 1 pick 4 chapters you like in the bible. Or choose option 2. Then instead if not chapters choose rater 4 verses in the bible for any personal reason . Look at the samples I wrote to see how it works. It's quite easy. Either 4 bible chapters you like or option 2. 4 verses instead. Pick one or the other option you prefer.

Once years ago some guy had some funny answers about those candidates. He said something like this. Batman as the Antichrist and Robin the false prophet or maybe Johnny Carson the Antichrist and Ed McMahon the false Prophets. . Would you angel share your funny answer? I'm just curious who you may have in mind. No ones feeling should be hurt here. We can't always be serious or else we are 24 hours robots. I quite joke around here often . Jokes no here has heard of . . some of mine are random that others may not understand. Accept she here that does know what I am joking about. . So what are your candidates?