Why waste the energy?

[Pax]

What do you get when you combine Mary and the Holy Spirit......Jesus Christ. This has been said and covered several times on these boards, but I will do it again for the sake of new members. Catholics do not put Mary above Jesus, but we do honor her very much. She was the vessel through which God became man. She brought Jesus into this world as God/Man so that he could die on the cross to save us from our sins.

I will give three Bible verses that all of you can look up.

Luke 1:28-30 "angel calls Mary, full of grace, found favor with God."

Luke 1:42 virgin bearer of son-Emmanuel= "God is with us."

Luke 1:48 Mary, all generations will call me blessed." (Notice she says ALL)

There were other questions in this thread like why Catholics call Priest, Bishops, and the Pope father. Protestants always love to cite Mathew 23:9. I would encourage all of you who question this to read what Mathew 23:10. "I tell us not to call anyone teacher except God". So is it incorrect to go around calling your son or daughters teacher, teacher? No, and it is not wrong to call a Catholic Priest father. Mathew 23:9 is taken out of context. Christ is warning us against looking at any other man as a father in the way God alone is a father. I will then go on to say that St. Stephen the deacon and first New Testament martyr, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, not only refers to other men as "fathers", he directly addresses the Pharisees themselves as "fathers." (Read Acts 7:2, Acts 7:38-39)

Read 1 Corinthians 4:14-15, "St. Paul zeroes in on the reason Catholics call priests Father when he says, "Even if you should have countless guides to Christ, yet you do not have many fathers, for I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel." It doesn't get much clearer than this.

If anyone has a question about the Catholic Church and what she truely stands for and believes, give me a PM and I will be happy to help you. There is way to much misinformation, and misguided people like Jack Chick representing the Church is a bad light.

[halifaxchristian]

What do you get when you combine Mary and the Holy Spirit......Jesus Christ.

[Sgtazur]

Luke 1:28-30 "angel calls Mary, full of grace, found favor with God."

Luke 1:42 virgin bearer of son-Emmanuel= "God is with us."

Luke 1:48 Mary, all generations will call me blessed."  (Notice she says ALL)

None of those say anything about praying to Mary or bowing to statues of her.

I agree that she was blessed (Quite frankly I don't know anything more blessing than being the mother of God's Saviour) but nothing about praying to her.

And if you believe in the bible code:

http://exodus2006.com/fab/mary-queen.htm

[EricH]

Oh thanx man Im glad u feel my pain. Yea that Jack Chick man I dont now HOW he can call himself christian.

why so? He preaches what's true instead of what's popular.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because all he preaches he does in hate. Like the faith or not, are you not suppose to minister to people in LOVE not hate? This i snot what Jack Chick does. Also, he makes wild and outlandish claims about Roman Catholics, almost none of which can he back up with proof. The man has a vendetta against the Church,and I dont think (although Im not God this stems from wat believe) that Jesus would condone such hatred.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did Jesus preach in hate when He took a whip of scourges and flipped over tables and rebuke the Pharisees and tax collectors and lawyers and call them snakes and hypocrites and open sepulchres...need I go on???

What is love? A gentle, politically-correct speaker like the antichrist who comes in his own name to unite mankind?

Jesus came to send a sword...not peace.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And the Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.

2 Timothy 2:24-26 NASB

It is true that Jesus came to bring a sword. But He does not need our help in wielding it. Jesus' point in that passage was that He himself would be a cause of division in families by the very fact of who He claimed to be. That was not an encouragement for us to attack those who we feel do no know the truth. If we are convinced another is decieved, we should view them correctly. They are not the enemy. They are held captive by the enemy. We should be on a rescue mission. If I were rescuing hostages, I would not beat them up once I found them. I might attack their captors, but not them.

Also please understand I am not making a statement here that Catholics are held captive by Satan. I am stating this as a general principle. That if we think someone is deceived in regards to the truth, we are to deal with them in gentleness.

The fact that Jesus overturned tables in the temple is not necessarily an example for us to follow. Jesus did a lot of things. We are not necessarily commanded or expected to do everything He did. He was God after all and we are not. We need to make sure when we emulate Jesus, that we are emulating something He intends for us to emulate, and not something He did as a prerogative of being God.

Blessings

[halifaxchristian]

Oh thanx man Im glad u feel my pain. Yea that Jack Chick man I dont now HOW he can call himself christian.

why so? He preaches what's true instead of what's popular.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because all he preaches he does in hate. Like the faith or not, are you not suppose to minister to people in LOVE not hate? This i snot what Jack Chick does. Also, he makes wild and outlandish claims about Roman Catholics, almost none of which can he back up with proof. The man has a vendetta against the Church,and I dont think (although Im not God this stems from wat believe) that Jesus would condone such hatred.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did Jesus preach in hate when He took a whip of scourges and flipped over tables and rebuke the Pharisees and tax collectors and lawyers and call them snakes and hypocrites and open sepulchres...need I go on???

What is love? A gentle, politically-correct speaker like the antichrist who comes in his own name to unite mankind?

Jesus came to send a sword...not peace.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And the Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.

2 Timothy 2:24-26 NASB

It is true that Jesus came to bring a sword. But He does not need our help in wielding it. Jesus' point in that passage was that He himself would be a cause of division in families by the very fact of who He claimed to be. That was not an encouragement for us to attack those who we feel do no know the truth. If we are convinced another is decieved, we should view them correctly. They are not the enemy. They are held captive by the enemy. We should be on a rescue mission. If I were rescuing hostages, I would not beat them up once I found them. I might attack their captors, but not them.

Also please understand I am not making a statement here that Catholics are held captive by Satan. I am stating this as a general principle. That if we think someone is deceived in regards to the truth, we are to deal with them in gentleness.

The fact that Jesus overturned tables in the temple is not necessarily an example for us to follow. Jesus did a lot of things. We are not necessarily commanded or expected to do everything He did. He was God after all and we are not. We need to make sure when we emulate Jesus, that we are emulating something He intends for us to emulate, and not something He did as a prerogative of being God.

Blessings

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Rebuke taken. Thankyou!

[serotta]

And the Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.

2 Timothy 2:24-26 NASB

It is true that Jesus came to bring a sword. But He does not need our help in wielding it. Jesus' point in that passage was that He himself would be a cause of division in families by the very fact of who He claimed to be. That was not an encouragement for us to attack those who we feel do no know the truth. If we are convinced another is decieved, we should view them correctly. They are not the enemy. They are held captive by the enemy. We should be on a rescue mission. If I were rescuing hostages, I would not beat them up once I found them. I might attack their captors, but not them.

Also please understand I am not making a statement here that Catholics are held captive by Satan. I am stating this as a general principle. That if we think someone is deceived in regards to the truth, we are to deal with them in gentleness.

The fact that Jesus overturned tables in the temple is not necessarily an example for us to follow. Jesus did a lot of things. We are not necessarily commanded or expected to do everything He did. He was God after all and we are not. We need to make sure when we emulate Jesus, that we are emulating something He intends for us to emulate, and not something He did as a prerogative of being God.

Blessings

Very nicely put, thank you Eric.

[Pax]

What do you get when you combine Mary and the Holy Spirit......Jesus Christ.

[EricH]

As for Mary ascending into heaven as the Catholic Church teaches, this is part of tradition that has evolved.

[Tari]

This is being written just to point out a few things that have been encountered. I grew up Catholic when I was younger, and over the past 5 years or so attended 15+ other Bible based churches of all denominations. Over the years many terrible things about the Catholic religion have been quoted by other churches. Although I've never heard the Catholic Church ever put another church or religion down. It does not seem to be a practice of Catholics to do so in a public manner. Although the Catholic Church calls all of the other churches protestant, so I guess that is their way.

Idol worship is wrong, the praying to saints, etc... This does not seem to ever occur during a regular mass. This idol worship seems to be more like what some of the gift shops may offer??? Either way it is wrong, that is understood.

What is really interesting is ALL the events that took place in the year "1830".

"1830"

-The "Marian sightings" that caused a lot of Catholic's to fall into idol worship.

-The vision that Margaret McDonald had of this "secret rapture of believers" eventually spread to many "Bible based" churches.

-An angel appeared to Joseph Smith which eventually started the mormon religion consisting of 60 million plus believers today.

All of these events happened in the year "1830".

Well take these verses into consideration:

2Corinthians 11:14

And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Galatians 1:8

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

So it seems like the majority of all churches have been affected in one way or another. Now I will say that the Catholic church has a very solid foundation for it's basic across the board teaching. In other words the foundational core beliefs of the Catholic church cannot be changed. Whenever there is a mass, the SAME mass is held all across the world. This does not allow any false Catholic beliefs or doctrines to slip in. That is the universal part of Catholicism. This is a strong solid structure for the Catholic faith.

It seems like the Catholic Church had to be attacked in other ways, since they could not be moved from their core belief system. So the Catholic church was attacked with "marian sightings" causing idol worship. Also many priests have been tempted by Satan into molestation. The Catholic religion has been very persecuted over the years over many of their practices. Although something very interesting about a Catholic mass is that it has a very "Holy Order" about it. This does not occur the same way in any other churches it seems. I can see how some sort of "Holy" foundation was put forth in that church, between all the different prayers recited during a mass etc... Maybe Jesus did teach some things behind closed doors that were made manifest?

It seems like many other churches fall prey to much false teaching. Maybe the basic structure is not strong enough? Either way we all have to be careful about how we interpret the Word of God. The parable of the four soils explains quite well Mark 4:10-25. No matter what it is important to put your religious faith to the test.

[Pax]

This is being written just to point out a few things that have been encountered. I grew up Catholic when I was younger, and over the past 5 years or so attended 15+ other Bible based churches of all denominations. Over the years many terrible things about the Catholic religion have been quoted by other churches. Although I've never heard the Catholic Church ever put another church or religion down. It does not seem to be a practice of Catholics to do so in a public manner. Although the Catholic Church calls all of the other churches protestant, so I guess that is their way.

    Idol worship is wrong, the praying to saints, etc... This does not seem to ever occur during a regular mass. This idol worship seems to be more like what some of the gift shops may offer??? Either way it is wrong, that is understood.

   

What is really interesting is ALL the events that took place in the year "1830".

                                                    "1830"

-The "Marian sightings" that caused a lot of Catholic's to fall into idol worship.

-The vision that Margaret McDonald had of this "secret rapture of believers"    eventually spread to many "Bible based" churches. 

-An angel appeared to Joseph Smith which eventually started the mormon religion consisting of 60 million plus believers today.

                        All of these events happened in the year "1830".

    Well take these verses into consideration:

2Corinthians 11:14

And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Galatians 1:8

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

    So it seems like the majority of all churches have been affected in one way or another. Now I will say that the Catholic church has a very solid foundation for it's basic across the board teaching. In other words the foundational core beliefs of the Catholic church cannot be changed. Whenever there is a mass, the SAME mass is held all across the world. This does not allow any false Catholic beliefs or doctrines to slip in. That is the universal part of Catholicism. This is a strong solid structure for the Catholic faith.

    It seems like the Catholic Church had to be attacked in other ways, since they could not be moved from their core belief system. So the Catholic church was attacked with "marian sightings" causing idol worship. Also many priests have been tempted by Satan into molestation. The Catholic religion has been very persecuted over the years over many of their practices. Although something very interesting about a Catholic mass is that it has a very "Holy Order" about it. This does not occur the same way in any other churches it seems. I can see how some sort of "Holy" foundation was put forth in that church, between all the different prayers recited during a mass etc... Maybe Jesus did teach some things behind closed doors that were made manifest?

    It seems like many other churches fall prey to much false teaching. Maybe the basic structure is not strong enough? Either way we all have to be careful about how we interpret the Word of God. The parable of the four soils explains quite well Mark 4:10-25. No matter what it is important to put your religious faith to the test.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tari,

I as a Catholic try very hard not to put down other denominations, although I sometimes inadvertantly slip up. I truely respect all people as Jesus instructed us to. Calling other Christian denominations Protestant is not a slam. The word Protestant derives from that fact that Christians were either Catholic, or 'Protested' the Catholic Church and fromed their own denomination. This is were the word Protestant came from. Luther, Calvin, and others were very happy being called Protestants.