Why waste the energy?

[Trust & Obey]

I don't hate catholics myself, whatever path you choose is your choice. The only thing I can think of, on the top of my head is:

And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. (matthew 23:9)

The name "father" has been used by catholic clergy yes? Pope comes from the latin Papa, meaning father. According to wikipedia, many of them sign their name with titles such as:

And what about:

Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Isn't this what "Hail Mary" and "Our Father" prayers are? You know, "say 10 Hail Marys and 10 Our Fathers and you will be forgiven."

[Trust & Obey]

BTW, I have no hate for Catholics and know quite a few. I consider them to be brothers in the Lord if I feel the Spirit moving in our fellowship. You can tell if someone is a genuine believer usually by engaging them.

But, most Catholics who are knowledgeable know 50X more about "Catholic Church history" than they do about the Bible.

[Trust & Obey]

What do you get when you combine Mary and the Holy Spirit......Jesus Christ.  This has been said and covered several times on these boards, but I will do it again for the sake of new members.  Catholics do not put Mary above Jesus, but we do honor her very much.  She was the vessel through which God became man.  She brought Jesus into this world as God/Man so that he could die on the cross to save us from our sins. 

I will give three Bible verses that all of you can look up.

Luke 1:28-30 "angel calls Mary, full of grace, found favor with God."

Luke 1:42 virgin bearer of son-Emmanuel= "God is with us."

Luke 1:48 Mary, all generations will call me blessed."  (Notice she says ALL)

There were other questions in this thread like why Catholics call Priest, Bishops, and the Pope father.  Protestants always love to cite  Mathew 23:9.  I would encourage all of you who question this to read what Mathew 23:10.  "I tell us not to call anyone teacher except God".  So is it incorrect to go around calling your son or daughters teacher, teacher?  No, and it is not wrong to call a Catholic Priest father.  Mathew 23:9 is taken out of context. 

Jesus is speaking regarding "spiritual" teachers or fathers.

I can call my dad "father." And, I can call a schoolteacher "teacher."

Jesus is addressing the calling of people their "father" in a spiritual sense, not a carnal one. Otherwise, Jesus contradicts Himself:

Exo 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

Eph 6:2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise;)

So, clearly we can call our earthly father "father." But, it is in a carnal sense.

[Pax]

Some of the problems I have with Catholicism....

1) Division of sin into venal and mortal sins....absolutely no biblical basis for it. Encourages the idea that some sin is 'less evil' than other sin.

Read 1 John 5:16-17.

[Guest opusdei]

BTW, I have no hate for Catholics and know quite a few. I consider them to be brothers in the Lord if I feel the Spirit moving in our fellowship. You can tell if someone is a genuine believer usually by engaging them.

But, most Catholics who are knowledgeable know 50X more about "Catholic Church history" than they do about the Bible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True, sad but true. Although I do know SOME of the Bible, not all of it but some. Didnt know ur ability to read a book had so much impact on ur salvation.

[Sgtazur]

2)The ability of priests to forgive sin. No one can forgive sin except for God

Christ himself had the power to heal the spiritually sick as well as the physically sick.

Edited August 26, 2005 by Sgtazur

[halifaxchristian]

What do you get when you combine Mary and the Holy Spirit......Jesus Christ.

[Guest yod]

and just FYI

The modern messianic movement began with a Bulgarian rabbi who visited Israel in the late 1800s. He had absolutely ZERO ties to Catholics or Protestants when he began the first messianic jewish synagoge since the 13th Century.

I am part of that restoration and we are neither Catholic nor Protestant. Never have been...since the Catholic Church split from the ORIGINAL church.

[Assisi]

I don't hate catholics myself, whatever path you choose is your choice. The only thing I can think of, on the top of my head is:

And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. (matthew 23:9)

The name "father" has been used by catholic clergy yes? Pope comes from the latin Papa, meaning father. According to wikipedia, many of them sign their name with titles such as:

And what about:

Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Isn't this what "Hail Mary" and "Our Father" prayers are? You know, "say 10 Hail Marys and 10 Our Fathers and you will be forgiven."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The operative Greek word here for "vain repetitions" is battalogeo, or babbling. That is, the heathens had a magical perception of prayer and thought the more they babbled to their gods, the more that that god would respond: I Kings 18:26: "And they took the bullock which was given them, and they dressed it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even until noon, saying, O Baal, hear us. But there was no voice, nor any that answered."

Christ Himself prayed in repetitions. Matthew 26:44: "And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words". Mark 14:39 reads: "And again he went away, and prayed, and spake the same words."

Do you believe that the Father heard Him the first time?

The angels pray repetitiously. Revelation 4:8: "...and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come."

The liturgy of the synagogue was (and is) filled with repetition and formalized prayer. Christ said "use not vain repetitions, as the heathens do". Were the Jews heathens? They prayed (and still pray) the sh'ma twice a day and, in their liturgy, the Shemoneh Esrei, the Kaddish, the morning blessings, the Aleinu, etc. Check out a Jewish siddur (missal) sometime; does it look more typically Protestant or Catholic.

[eric]

Opusdei wrote

True, sad but true. Although I do know SOME of the Bible, not all of it but some. Didnt know ur ability to read a book had so much impact on ur salvation.

Glad to hear you admit you have read only some of the bible. Some catholics have read none of it. And it's not your ability to read a book, as you call it, that has an impact on one's salvation. It's your ability to understand what is written that counts You only believe what you want to believe or what some priest of the catholc religion tells you. Sure Mary was blessed of God, but then so am I. I'm blessed every day of my life, and according to the bible, 1Pet.2:9, I am a saint and a priest, and I will co- reign with Christ during the millennium.

Also, according to 1Tim 2.1:5 there is only one Mediator of God and man, the Man, Jesus Christ. So goodness knows why you call out to Mary, as she's on eqal terms with all the OT saints, asleep in Christ.

I am not a personal catholic basher, only a detester of some of the RCC's misinformed teachings.

I would also like to see this thread closed because, it is, as ever, getting nowhere.

e