God did not teach us these things

[Waggles]

Baalbek in Syria - like other megalithic archaeological sites contains inexplicable massive stone blocks that weigh in excess of 500 tons - the above is just over one thousand tons and other similar blocks were moved and arranged to construct the platform that the massive Roman Temple to Jupiter stands upon. 

[Starise]

3 hours ago, Kelly2363 said:

 

Perhaps you should read what is said and not tell a former occult theosophic priest what the occult is. 

I have emboldened your words and all I can say to you now is to read what is being said in this OP because you are missing the most basic reality of all.

In Just the very post before your own - where I am called a fool - the author tells us, "This book is informative and gives much information on the spiritual realm that our Bibles allude to without details. But it also refers to the coming judgements and wrath of God upon this wicked world in our last days."

You would imagine that the Book of Revelation of Jesus Christ had not been written and left unsealed for our learning and correction. 

Well I didn't call you a fool and I don't recall that in any other post? In any case that sort of thing doesn't last very long around here. Not my intention to make anyone feel unwelcome here at Worthy. 

I stand by my earlier emboldened words. I guess we'll just have to accept that we see things differently. Unless I misunderstood you, you said the book Of 1 Enoch was a portal to the occult and that Christians should not be reading it. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I asked you if you could give concrete reasons for why you believed this. For anyone who cares to look up the definition of occult, they will see the word has more than one definition. For purposes of this discussion It's probably this one- supernatural, mystical, or magical beliefs, practices, or phenomena.

MANY different beliefs and religions follow this definition. To narrow it to one belief would not be academically honest. About the only UNIVERSAL statements I could make about it are that all of it is in direct rebellion to God. All of it seeks to find or accomplish things that have sinful fleshly motives. No power derived from any of it comes from anything but evil origins and this is why God expressly forbids any of it. To say what it is at this level isn't difficult. To break it all down into the various groups that practice it would take a large volume of information. So you  have been a theosophic priest and you would have had different rites and processes than a voodoo priest, an African Shaman or any number of other occult based beliefs. To say I know nothing about the occult would be to make a very uneducated guess. To say you inow all about the occult would mean you know everything about ALL of the various beliefs that originate from Satanic and demon worship. I doubt either of us are that kind of a walking encyclopedia. To say you might have experienced things I haven't as a result of this demon worship is something I would rather not ever experience.  It's breaks down to something pretty basic really. People reject the God of the bible, they get connected with a group that practices either overt or veiled worship of the demonic.

To those who might think otherwise. I don't spend every waking minute studying the paranormal, but I have and I do to this day so that I can be an informed soldier.

If there was ever a question to accept something from the book of Enoch or the Bible as modern man knows it..... when a choice between them may be necessary, I will go with the bible over Enoch any day. Since I see no direct contradictions between them, on the contrary we have supporting passages between them, I will likely never need to make that choice.

I find the history of antiquity very interesting. I realized early on the teaching I was receiving on some of it wasn't accurate and seemed evasive, especially on the issue of giants. I find it even more interesting that the Bible ties them in to a biblical narrative and further, that the rise of both fallen angels and giants explains many of the things that can't be explained any other way.

[Hopefully]

54 minutes ago, Starise said:

In any case that sort of thing doesn't last very long around here.

Hi Starise,

it’s good to see you here. The talk about the occult is what got this thread locked so if we could please not talk about it.

 

PS I know you didn’t initially bring it up but I’m asking you because I believe you will understand. 

 

Edited September 5, 2021 by Hopefully

[Guest]

On 9/2/2021 at 6:41 AM, Hopefully said:

1. Moreover Azazyel taught men to make swords, knives, shields, breastplates, the fabrication of mirrors, and the workmanship of bracelets and ornaments, the use of paint, the beautifying of the eyebrows, the use of stones of every valuable and select kind, and of all sorts of dyes, so that the world became altered.

2. Impiety increased; fornication multiplied; and they transgressed and corrupted all their ways.

3. Amazarak taught all the sorcerers, and dividers of roots:

4. Armers taught the solution of sorcery;

5. Barkayal taught the observers of the stars;

6. Akibeel taught signs;

7. Tamiel taught astronomy;

8. And Asaradel taught the motion of the moon.

9. And men, being destroyed, cried out; and their voice reached to heaven.

From the book of Enoch chapter 8, these are the things taught by fallen angels. 

This is nearly the same as the more modern translation by Ken Johnson, Th.D. which I read.  Some of these teachings in and of themselves are not harmful.  For example, the motion of the stars help sailors and farmers; tides are more predictable; etc.  That was their original purpose as the Genesis Creation account attests to.  So the angels mentioned must have perverted this knowledge to continue their violence against the Kingdom of God.

[Waggles]

Reversing Hermon is a ground breaking work. It unveils what most in the modern Church have never heard regarding how the story of the sin of the Watchers in 1 Enoch 6-16 helped frame the mission of Jesus, the Messiah.

Jews of the first century expected the messiah to reverse the impact of the Watchers transgression. For Jews of Jesus' day, the Watchers were part of the explanation for why the world was so profoundly depraved. The Messiah would not just revoke the claim of Satan on human souls and estrangement from God, solving the predicament of the Fall. He would also bring the nations back into relationship with the true God by defeating the principalities and powers that governed them.

Jews also believed that the Messiah would rescue humanity from self-destruction, the catalyst for which was the sin of the Watchers and the influence of what they had taught humankind.

Topics include: understanding Genesis 6:1-4 and the Sin of the Watchers in Their Original Context; how the ancient Mesopotamian story of the apkallu aligns with Gen 6:1-4, was preserved in 1 Enoch, and sets the stage for the theme of reversing the evil of the Watchers; how the theme of reversing the transgression of the Watchers colours the gospel accounts of the birth of Jesus, his genealogy, and his ministry;

how the writings of Peter and Paul allude to the sin of the Watchers and present Jesus as overturning the disastrous effects of their sins against humanity; and how the descriptions of the antichrist, the end-times Day of the Lord, and the final judgment connect to Genesis 6 and the nephilim.

Edited September 5, 2021 by Waggles

[Dennis1209]

1 hour ago, Waggles said:

Reversing Hermon is a ground breaking work. It unveils what most in the modern Church have never heard regarding how the story of the sin of the Watchers in 1 Enoch 6-16 helped frame the mission of Jesus, the Messiah.

Jews of the first century expected the messiah to reverse the impact of the Watchers transgression. For Jews of Jesus' day, the Watchers were part of the explanation for why the world was so profoundly depraved. The Messiah would not just revoke the claim of Satan on human souls and estrangement from God, solving the predicament of the Fall. He would also bring the nations back into relationship with the true God by defeating the principalities and powers that governed them.

Jews also believed that the Messiah would rescue humanity from self-destruction, the catalyst for which was the sin of the Watchers and the influence of what they had taught humankind.

Topics include: understanding Genesis 6:1-4 and the Sin of the Watchers in Their Original Context; how the ancient Mesopotamian story of the apkallu aligns with Gen 6:1-4, was preserved in 1 Enoch, and sets the stage for the theme of reversing the evil of the Watchers; how the theme of reversing the transgression of the Watchers colours the gospel accounts of the birth of Jesus, his genealogy, and his ministry;

how the writings of Peter and Paul allude to the sin of the Watchers and present Jesus as overturning the disastrous effects of their sins against humanity; and how the descriptions of the antichrist, the end-times Day of the Lord, and the final judgment connect to Genesis 6 and the nephilim.

Well said. I'm surprised you didn't conclude by connecting the above to the Deuteronomy 32: world view 

Most think the evil world is the way it is, as only the result of the original fall of man in Genesis. They don't consider the sins of the Watchers, or Nimrod and the Tower of Babel and what that was all about. 

Heiser cleared some things up for me that make perfect sense I was blinded to. Looking at a map of Palestine, I always wondered, why did Jesus go so far North, from Caesarea Philippi, North, out to the middle of nothing and nowhere, for His Transfiguration? Why this particular location and spot; way, way out of their way? Why only his inner circle with him [Peter, John and James] again? But that's another long topic. 

Knowing the history of Mt. Hermon, and what the Jews knew, thought and believed about the place makes perfect sense. They knew and believed that was where the Watchers descended atop of Mt. Hermon. The cave still there today, was thought to be a gate [portal] to Hell and the underworld. The ruins of a Baal temple at the cave site still remain to this day. 

Matthew 16:18 (KJV) And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

There is so much to be gleaned and unpacked from this single statement from Jesus. The Catholics claim 'this rock' is Peter. Some think 'this rock' is Jesus and His word, which is true. But I also believe Jesus was in Satan's face on his ground [rock] poking him in the eye. 

With these supernatural views and literal interpretations, biblical history and events make a lot more sense in understanding the chronology and entire biblical narrative. The moves and counter moves, Satan mimicking everything that God does, etc.

So, coming full circle back to the book of Enoch, and Heiser even mentions it in some of his books. To better understand what the ancient Jews read, thought, understood and believed; you have to try and think like a second Temple period Jew. At a minimum, Peter and Jude make it clear, their audience read and was familiar with I Enoch. 

Side notes on the inerrancy of the book of Enoch: It's definitely not inspired and has errors; I do not take it as scripture, but as previously noted. One thing in particular that has puzzled me and I cannot reconcile. The size of some of these giants. I've asked a number of people on their thoughts with no response.

Enoch 6:7:2  Some were 3 thousand ells: Every measurement I've found for an ell, puts them at just under a mile tall, that's preposterous. 

 

[Dennis1209]

6 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

This is nearly the same as the more modern translation by Ken Johnson, Th.D. which I read.  Some of these teachings in and of themselves are not harmful.  For example, the motion of the stars help sailors and farmers; tides are more predictable; etc.  That was their original purpose as the Genesis Creation account attests to.  So the angels mentioned must have perverted this knowledge to continue their violence against the Kingdom of God.

Just as an aside: I'm really not up to speed on the subject matter, but. Have you ever wondered; up to and including the age in which we live, why and when celestial bodies, asteroids, months, days, etc.; are named what they are? 

I will not go into any details about my thoughts, however; I find the name, timing, Wormwood and the asteroid Apophis very interesting. For fear of what is coming upon the earth???

Why 'they' try their best to distract attention from the greatest event and Person ever to walk the earth. By changing B.C. and A.D. to the common era? 

Just things that cross my mind...

Edited September 5, 2021 by Dennis1209

[Hopefully]

7 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

Some of these teachings in and of themselves are not harmful. 

I agree but then sin turns good things bad and I think those teachers knew that would happen with each subject taught. 
Like now there are talks of HAARP and such  where men can now use devices to control the weather themselves. I would assume most of their reasons are not in alignment with what God wants. 

Edited September 5, 2021 by Hopefully

[Hopefully]

45 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Have you ever wondered; up to and including the age in which we live, why and when celestial bodies, asteroids, months, days, etc.; are named what they are? 

Yes. It seems most are named after false gods right? 
 

In the  Astronomy community today I find most don’t believe in Jesus.  I became interested in astronomy over a decade ago and have watched numerous documentaries and heard various Lectures  as a hobby. They begin with the Big Bang theory.

That didn’t cause me to waiver because while science claims to operate off of proof vs faith -the Science of Astronomy requires much faith with no proof to the average individual.

After seeing what can be done with special effects on movies- just because something is on video or tv doesn’t mean it’s real. Just as they claim about  our Bible- just because they put data in a book doesn’t mean it’s true either.

Many Astronomy claims cannot be replicated by others you just have to believe what they say about everything. 

I have faith in Jesus and I have the proof I need. For man to teach me a new thing I need proof. So I still really like astronomy because I see it as a fascinating story in a book or acted out on tv. Those large numbers and the scale of happenings are fun and amazing to think about.
 

I have faith in Jesus. I try to trust man but I don’t have faith in man. When it comes to man I have to see it to believe it, or have word from other Brothers and Sisters that they have seen it and can show me too, or teach me to see for myself.

 I have faith in Jesus not science of Astronomy so perhaps this is why Astronomy was forbidden knowledge so we would not have this Big Bang issue.

Edited September 5, 2021 by Hopefully

[Justin Adams]

21 minutes ago, Hopefully said:

 I have faith in Jesus not science of Astronomy so perhaps this is why Astronomy was forbidden knowledge so we would not have this Big Bang issue.

Astrology was frowned upon. However, many Jewish places had the zodiac. It was their guide to the seasons. Like Christians, they frowned upon astrological predictions of individual fate since God forbade us to seek the 'hidden' knowledge.

Astronomy is how the wise men found the place of Yeshua's birth.