Revelation 12:6 The Woman In The Wilderness Explained?

[tatwo]

This is an initial response to AdHoc who posted a very eye opening post. Essentially he posted what looks like the outline for this topic, saved us all a lot of work, revealing his diligence. It was long, I have been working with it and would like to start a response. It will be in multiple posts…great stuff. The Lord wants us to understand this women…more importantly it’s the “Man-Child” or the “Son”  that comes forth that is of real importance to the Lord…not the woman. 

AdHoc’s comments are in blue 

The Woman of Revelation 12 is New Jerusalem before she is perfected.  

Very likely, very likely…I think it could be seen as that…for a time, I’ll touch on that later. 

Let us see what attributes she has.

1.        She is a "sign" thus not physical

I agree, and remember a “sign” in the heavens can be seen as representational of the physical thing on the earth if you think about it, so her sign is in heaven and her reality...likely on the earth, let’s see if we don’t kick that up somewhere.

2.        She is in heaven, but delivers her Man-Child on earth

Amazing isn't it?

Where is the location of heaven…today?

Once the child is born He is caught up to “God and His throne”…exactly where is the throne of God…today?  

3.        She has already two other seeds - those who "keep the commandments of God", and those who "have the testimony of Jesus Christ"

So you are telling us that…

·         Those who "keep the commandments of God"                                     Israel?

·         Those who “have the testimony of Jesus Christ"                                 Christ the body?

Humm…ok, FWIW, my position on this at this time is more reflective of Paul’s words in Galatians in regards to the seed…”He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ.” I see “seed = Christ” as one or singular…this is also what is stated in Gen 3:15…there is a deeper meaning here, I feel like that is out of the scope of this discussion at this point.

4.        She is thus a "Mother"

There are likely a few types of this woman "mother" in the scripture.

5.        She is clothed with the sun. A garment in parable is one's works (Rev.19:7-8). Christ is the "Sun of righteousness" (Mal.4:2)

6.        She has the moon under her feet. She thus rules this light that only reflects the sun and which rules the night (Gen.1:16)

7.        She has a crown of stars. A crown is for ruling

On 5, 6, 7…you have shown powerful understanding and insight of prophetic symbolism, this gives a great picture and is very helpful in describing what she... “once” was.

8.       She produces the Man-Child with pain

9.        She produces the Man-Child at the end of the age because only 1260 days are left

10.     She flees to a wilderness for these 1260 days

11.      She is helped by the earth during these 1260 days - not God

Wow…there is so much here… ”like birth pangs on a woman” … a “Man-Child” is born. All of this transpires on earth…fascinating. It’s a “Son” that’s a Man-Child, in other words a mature Son? Interesting…

Number 11...this is a great observation and I would think that it figures into this picture in a big way as we move forward.

Perhaps He is referenced as a “Man” in that upon His “birth,” He is revealed as full grown, and mature? And the reference to “Child” is in relationship to the idea that He is “new in His appearing” along with picture that He appears as the product of a time of “gestation/ preparation?”

Tatwo...:)

[truth7t7]

2 hours ago, tatwo said:

This is an initial response to AdHoc who posted a very eye opening post. Essentially he posted what looks like the outline for this topic, saved us all a lot of work, revealing his diligence. It was long, I have been working with it and would like to start a response. It will be in multiple posts…great stuff. The Lord wants us to understand this women…more importantly it’s the “Man-Child” or the “Son”  that comes forth that is of real importance to the Lord…not the woman. 

AdHoc’s comments are in blue 

The Woman of Revelation 12 is New Jerusalem before she is perfected.  

Very likely, very likely…I think it could be seen as that…for a time, I’ll touch on that later. 

Let us see what attributes she has.

1.        She is a "sign" thus not physical

I agree, and remember a “sign” in the heavens can be seen as representational of the physical thing on the earth if you think about it, so her sign is in heaven and her reality...likely on the earth, let’s see if we don’t kick that up somewhere.

2.        She is in heaven, but delivers her Man-Child on earth

Amazing isn't it?

Where is the location of heaven…today?

Once the child is born He is caught up to “God and His throne”…exactly where is the throne of God…today?  

3.        She has already two other seeds - those who "keep the commandments of God", and those who "have the testimony of Jesus Christ"

So you are telling us that…

·         Those who "keep the commandments of God"                                     Israel?

·         Those who “have the testimony of Jesus Christ"                                 Christ the body?

Humm…ok, FWIW, my position on this at this time is more reflective of Paul’s words in Galatians in regards to the seed…”He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ.” I see “seed = Christ” as one or singular…this is also what is stated in Gen 3:15…there is a deeper meaning here, I feel like that is out of the scope of this discussion at this point.

4.        She is thus a "Mother"

There are likely a few types of this woman "mother" in the scripture.

5.        She is clothed with the sun. A garment in parable is one's works (Rev.19:7-8). Christ is the "Sun of righteousness" (Mal.4:2)

6.        She has the moon under her feet. She thus rules this light that only reflects the sun and which rules the night (Gen.1:16)

7.        She has a crown of stars. A crown is for ruling

On 5, 6, 7…you have shown powerful understanding and insight of prophetic symbolism, this gives a great picture and is very helpful in describing what she... “once” was.

8.       She produces the Man-Child with pain

9.        She produces the Man-Child at the end of the age because only 1260 days are left

10.     She flees to a wilderness for these 1260 days

11.      She is helped by the earth during these 1260 days - not God

Wow…there is so much here… ”like birth pangs on a woman” … a “Man-Child” is born. All of this transpires on earth…fascinating. It’s a “Son” that’s a Man-Child, in other words a mature Son? Interesting…

Number 11...this is a great observation and I would think that it figures into this picture in a big way as we move forward.

Perhaps He is referenced as a “Man” in that upon His “birth,” He is revealed as full grown, and mature? And the reference to “Child” is in relationship to the idea that He is “new in His appearing” along with picture that He appears as the product of a time of “gestation/ preparation?”

Tatwo...:)

The woman is Israel, the man child is Jesus Christ, the dragon trying to devour the man child when hes born, is when King Herod tried to kill Jesus

Revelation 12:4 is a recap of historical events, satan was cast out of heaven long ago, who do you think tempted Jesus for 40 days/nights on this earth?

[tatwo]

On 12/17/2021 at 8:56 PM, angels4u said:

Agree and she will flee to the wilderness where God will take care of her for 3 1/2 years,this will be during the Great Trib and she will flee to Petra.

Greetings angels4u...I have some thoughts about your statement...if I may?

“But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and drank up the river which the dragon poured out of his mouth.” Rev 12:16 NASB

The idea that “God God will take care of her” when the scripture says “the earth helped the woman” is likely not the same thing.

There are references to the meaning of earth that are (geographical/physical), but then there are references to a spiritual existence...that which is earthly, which is descriptive of being carnal; it is descriptive of being devilish or sensual. “To dwell in the earth” means to be an inhabitant of that world (Kosmos).

For example, God has called us out of the “world” into the Kingdom, and when that concept of “world” relates to the carnal, the sensual, the devilish, to be earthly or to dwell in the earth is a reference to being in a condition that opposes God.

I think that a deeper understanding of the “earth” from this passage might help us gain some insight about this “woman.”

This opens up the possibility of a closer look at this “woman” or perhaps a deeper dive…if anyone really wants too. If all are sure of their position concerning this woman…I understand.

Tatwo...:)

[tatwo]

On 12/21/2021 at 4:11 AM, Diaste said:

I'm happy to let the Lord explain who the woman is in Rev 12.

 

He has...

Tatwo...:)

[tatwo]

Greetings,

This is a bit of a response to this forum as a whole, not just truth7t7 though I have quoted him below. The reason I quoted him is that he started the forum and has stated his thoughts multiple times...and as such kinda set the tone for the “discussion.”  

truth7t7> The woman in Revelation 12:6 represents the "Remnant Church" seen in Roman's chapter 11, they will be in Israel's wilderness during the 1260 day tribulation, as Jerusalem is in desolation.

truth7t7> The woman represents the "Remnant" Church as the OP clearly states, we disagree

truth7t7> The woman represents the "Remnant Church" in the wilderness, the remnant of God's heritage

truth7t7>  Scripture clearly teaches that the woman/remnant as seen below will be in the wilderness of Carmel, Bashan, Gilead

“So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.” Rev 12:17

Strongs

·         woman G1135 – Guné a woman, a woman, wife, my lady.

·         rest G3062 – Masculine plural of a derivative of leipo; remaining ones -- other, which remain, remnant, residue, rest.

On this forum it has been stated that the woman is “Israel?” The woman is the “remnant church?” The woman is the “remnant?” maybe? it deserves a closer look to be sure.

Perhaps a closer look at the usage of the word “rest” in Rev. 12:7…might reveal that John is referencing that which came from the woman ”the Son, Man-Child” as the remnant… perchance an item of note?

Tatwo…

[The Light]

On 12/18/2021 at 10:09 AM, truth7t7 said:

Thanks for the response!

We disagree, Micah 7 speaks of a future desolation in Jerusalem, as the remnant are taken into the wilderness and fed manna from heaven as in the days of old, this is the remnant of Gods heritage, the "Remnant Church" of Roman's chapter 11

Micah chapter 3 is speaking of the Eternal state, and Zion the mountain of the Lord, chapter 7 is on the way to Zion, as the Remnant Church is birthed in the wilderness

Jesus Is The Lord

 

Mmmm.

So the Church you claim, is represented by the 144,000 which we are told by God are 144,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel. Who do you think is right?

Also we are told in the Old Testament that the woman is Israel. I think I'll go with the written word of God.

Thirdly if the remnant is the Church, how are you planning to go to Carmel, Bashan or Gilead.

Additionally, we are clearly told not to be ignorant of the fact that part of Israel is blind UNTIL the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

Rom 11

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Fifthly, the Church is already in heaven before the seals are opened. And that's when the fullness of the Gentlies comes in.

So no, the woman is not the remnant Church. When God tells you who the woman is and who the 144,000 are, don't you think it would be better to believe the written Word of God than drawing our own conclusions?

Edited January 6, 2022 by The Light

[tatwo]

49 minutes ago, The Light said:

Also we are told in the Old Testament that the woman is Israel. I think I'll go with the written word of God.

 

Hi Light…:)

I would agree with you here…in terms of Israel being the woman...in “type/shadow” only…she “carried” the “seed of promise”…Christ within her and she birthed Him, here on earth. We have seen this woman in “type” before…in Sarah, Mary, and there may be others…remember, that which is in “type/shadow” points toward its perfected completion.

I sense that for the end of the age…this woman that appears in Rev. 12 will be just that “the” fulfillment of the previous “types/shadows” as prophesied by John.

It is noteworthy that these women in type…Sarah, Israel, & Mary…give birth to the seed of promise.

There is one more birthing to occur and it will be the completed perfection of God’s original desire…a Man in His Image and Likeness…made up of a many membered corporate body…here on earth.  

God installed creation “heaven and earth” within Himself…He put forth creation as He did so we could see His characteristics…He clothed Himself in humanity so we could experience Him.

Tatwo...:)

[truth7t7]

7 hours ago, The Light said:

Mmmm.

So the Church you claim, is represented by the 144,000 which we are told by God are 144,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel. Who do you think is right?

Also we are told in the Old Testament that the woman is Israel. I think I'll go with the written word of God.

Thirdly if the remnant is the Church, how are you planning to go to Carmel, Bashan or Gilead.

Additionally, we are clearly told not to be ignorant of the fact that part of Israel is blind UNTIL the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

Rom 11

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Fifthly, the Church is already in heaven before the seals are opened. And that's when the fullness of the Gentlies comes in.

So no, the woman is not the remnant Church. When God tells you who the woman is and who the 144,000 are, don't you think it would be better to believe the written Word of God than drawing our own conclusions?

Thanks for the response, the Church is the Israel of God, Children of the promised seed Romans 9:6-8

The Church is the 12 tribes of Israel scattered abroad James 1:1

The remnant 144,000 will be sealed and "added" to the Church present on earth during the tribulation

There isn't a pre-trib rapture found in scripture as you suggest, the Church will be present on earth to witness the second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens Luke 21:25-28

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

Edited January 6, 2022 by truth7t7

[The Light]

4 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Thanks for the response, the Church is the Israel of God, Children of the promised seed Romans 9:6-8

The Church is the 12 tribes of Israel scattered abroad James 1:1

The remnant 144,000 will be sealed and "added" to the Church present on earth during the tribulation

There isn't a pre-trib rapture found in scripture as you suggest, the Church will be present on earth to witness the second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens Luke 21:25-28

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

And thank you brother. The Church is mostly Gentiles that will be raptured prior to the opening of the 7 seals.

There is not the slightest of chances that the church is the 12 tribes of Israel. God says that the 144,000 are of the 12 tribes of Israel. As usual, I'm going with God on this. I see no need to make something up.

Come on. The 144,000 IS NOT A REMNANT. They are the first fruits of the second harvest. We don't need to make anything up as God tells us exactly who the 144,000 are.

There is absolutely a pretrib rapture shown, WITHOUT QUESTION, for those with understanding. When YOU muster up the courage to answer my question and tell when the Church is raptured in Revelation, I will tell you where the secret pretribulation rapture is found in scripture.

 

 

[truth7t7]

1 minute ago, The Light said:

And thank you brother. The Church is mostly Gentiles that will be raptured prior to the opening of the 7 seals.

There is not the slightest of chances that the church is the 12 tribes of Israel. God says that the 144,000 are of the 12 tribes of Israel. As usual, I'm going with God on this. I see no need to make something up.

Come on. The 144,000 IS NOT A REMNANT. They are the first fruits of the second harvest. We don't need to make anything up as God tells us exactly who the 144,000 are.

There is absolutely a pretrib rapture shown, WITHOUT QUESTION, for those with understanding. When YOU muster up the courage to answer my question and tell when the Church is raptured in Revelation, I will tell you where the secret pretribulation rapture is found in scripture.

 

 

Your going to be looking for that secret rapture for a long time, because it's not found in scripture