steve morrow Posted January 23, 2022 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,060 Content Per Day: 0.62 Reputation: 376 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/15/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/07/1955 Share Posted January 23, 2022 NOT A SALVATION ISSUE SOMEONE IS LYING AND IT ISNT JESUS CHRIST PROVERBS 12:22 lying lips are an abomination to THE LORD ---but they that deal truly are HIS delight--- REVELATION 21:27 and there shall in no wise enter into it anything that defileth neither whatsoever ---worketh abomination---or maketh a lie--- but they which are written in the lambs book of life 1 JOHN 2:4 he that saith I know HIM and keepeth not HIS commandments ---is a liar--- and the truth is not in him MARK 16:16 he that believeth ---AND IS BAPTIZED SHALL BE SAVED--- but he that believeth not ---shall be damned--- MATTHEW 20:22 but JESUS answered and said you know not what you ask are you able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of and to be ---baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with--- they say unto HIM we are able --20:23-- and HE saith unto them ---you shall drink indeed of MY cup and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with---but to sit on MY right hand and on MY left is not mine to give but it shall be given to them ---for whom it is prepared of MY FATHER--- LUKE 19:27 but those mine enemies ---which would not that I should reign over them--- bring hither and slay them before ME EPHESIANS 6:17 and take the helmet of salvation and ---the sword of the spirit --- which is the word of GOD--- LOVING THE LORD JESUS CHRIST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted January 24, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,993 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,691 Content Per Day: 11.75 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 24, 2022 So now you are making up your own parables? I have seen some strange things on Worthy but this one is right up there at the top. So far away from God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appy Posted January 24, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 23 Topic Count: 133 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,864 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 2,596 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted January 24, 2022 On 1/22/2022 at 6:53 AM, Starise said: If we agree that baptism is necessary to show obedience On 1/22/2022 at 6:53 AM, Starise said: and make sure we are doing it in the way the Lord would want us to do it. Which way would the Lord Himself condone First I want to make it absolutely clear that salvation is by faith alone, not by faith and something we do. I do not disagree, that water baptism is by immersion. Neither do I disagree that Jesus commanded believers to be baptized. Being baptized is an important first step in following Jesus as Lord. The purpose of water baptism is not to demonstrate our obedience, but to make a public statement that we are identifying ourselves with Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection. It is a public proclamation, that you are trusting in the sacrifice of Jesus and turning from all known sin. In other words, a public testimony of our faith and commitment to follow Jesus. A person that goes through the motions of water baptism because it is tradition in his or her denomination, is in actuality, telling everyone publicly that he or she really doesn't believe the gospel message or God's written word concerning Christ and his mission to die for us. Getting baptized without understanding what it means and why you are doing it, turns it a meaningless ritual. Getting baptized because your denomination demanded you do so, without truly understanding Christ's death, burial and resurrection is nothing more than a meaningless ritual to be seen by men. And the very reason I did not home in on the words “immersion” and “obedience”. I gave scripture in a previous post which should have made all this clear as day. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray12614 Posted January 24, 2022 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 670 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 753 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/22/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted January 24, 2022 4 hours ago, appy said: First I want to make it absolutely clear that salvation is by faith alone, not by faith and something we do. I do not disagree, that water baptism is by immersion. Neither do I disagree that Jesus commanded believers to be baptized. Being baptized is an important first step in following Jesus as Lord. The purpose of water baptism is not to demonstrate our obedience, but to make a public statement that we are identifying ourselves with Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection. It is a public proclamation, that you are trusting in the sacrifice of Jesus and turning from all known sin. In other words, a public testimony of our faith and commitment to follow Jesus. A person that goes through the motions of water baptism because it is tradition in his or her denomination, is in actuality, telling everyone publicly that he or she really doesn't believe the gospel message or God's written word concerning Christ and his mission to die for us. Getting baptized without understanding what it means and why you are doing it, turns it a meaningless ritual. Getting baptized because your denomination demanded you do so, without truly understanding Christ's death, burial and resurrection is nothing more than a meaningless ritual to be seen by men. And the very reason I did not home in on the words “immersion” and “obedience”. I gave scripture in a previous post which should have made all this clear as day. Well said . . . IF baptism were an indispensable part of being saved, then Jesus would have told the one thief on the cross, 'sorry, but you cannot be with me in paradise because you have not been immersed/poured/sprinkled in baptism . . . Of course we need to be baptized (for the reasons Appy said above) but as a testimony NOT as a work requirement for salvation . . . The bible is an book, not a verse . . . Ray . . . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Orthodoxy Posted January 24, 2022 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 134 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/22/2021 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 24, 2022 4 hours ago, Ray12614 said: Well said . . . IF baptism were an indispensable part of being saved, then Jesus would have told the one thief on the cross, Excuse me? Baptism was not instituted until after Jesus' resurrection and before his ascension. The first Christian baptism occurred on the day of Pentecost. How is it possible for the thief to be baptized, when the first baptisms occurred 53 days after the thief's death. Saying the thief wasn't baptized makes as much sense as saying King David wasn't baptized. YOU SHOULD KNOW THIS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael37 Posted January 24, 2022 Group: Servant Followers: 21 Topic Count: 245 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 7,028 Content Per Day: 3.28 Reputation: 4,941 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/23/1954 Share Posted January 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Dead Orthodoxy said: Excuse me? Baptism was not instituted until after Jesus' resurrection and before his ascension. The first Christian baptism occurred on the day of Pentecost. How is it possible for the thief to be baptized, when the first baptisms occurred 53 days after the thief's death. Saying the thief wasn't baptized makes as much sense as saying King David wasn't baptized. YOU SHOULD KNOW THIS. Aren't you making the same point as Ray12614? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted January 24, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,126 Content Per Day: 9.66 Reputation: 13,663 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted January 24, 2022 10 hours ago, appy said: First I want to make it absolutely clear that salvation is by faith alone, not by faith and something we do. I do not disagree, that water baptism is by immersion. Neither do I disagree that Jesus commanded believers to be baptized. Being baptized is an important first step in following Jesus as Lord. There is certainly a distinction between faith and works. I think we might agree faith minus works isn't true faith. Neither is faith anything aside from the blood of Christ. It's a thin rail for me to say works never matter because they show obedience. They are the outward manifestation of the inner man. Either baptism matters or it doesn't. Some try to say it doesn't matter at all. Some say it is important for salvation. I don't believe it is NECESSARY for salvation. It is necessary for obedience. 10 hours ago, appy said: The purpose of water baptism is not to demonstrate our obedience, but to make a public statement that we are identifying ourselves with Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection. It is a public proclamation, that you are trusting in the sacrifice of Jesus and turning from all known sin. In other words, a public testimony of our faith and commitment to follow Jesus. Since you bolded much of this I can see you feel strongly about it. If God directs me to get baptized I don't care so much about the why. I do think one primary goal of baptism is obedience. That obedience often leads to a public testimony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted January 24, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,126 Content Per Day: 9.66 Reputation: 13,663 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted January 24, 2022 (edited) On 1/22/2022 at 10:03 AM, Dead Orthodoxy said: Is "symbolic of a new life" immersion, pouring or sprinkling? It isn't what I think about it. What does the word say about it? That brings the question up, does God condone a directive if it is carried out differently than He states in His word? We can try to redefine baptism but our re definition does not change what God said it is. We can customize the methods so much that it is no longer recognizable for what it is supposed to be. How far do we carry it then? How about baptism in chocolate? Is that ok? We could use beer. Would God condone it? What if I just dip my little pinkie in water and say a prayer? Would that qualify? Edited January 24, 2022 by Starise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray12614 Posted January 24, 2022 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 670 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 753 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/22/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted January 24, 2022 3 hours ago, Dead Orthodoxy said: Excuse me? Baptism was not instituted until after Jesus' resurrection and before his ascension. The first Christian baptism occurred on the day of Pentecost. How is it possible for the thief to be baptized, when the first baptisms occurred 53 days after the thief's death. Saying the thief wasn't baptized makes as much sense as saying King David wasn't baptized. YOU SHOULD KNOW THIS. Yes I should, never really thought about that. Thanks for pointing that out. Caps means that you are yelling Lol So I gather that you believe that people must be baptized in order to be saved? And what about the thief then? Please clarify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Orthodoxy Posted January 24, 2022 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 134 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/22/2021 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 24, 2022 25 minutes ago, Ray12614 said: Yes I should, never really thought about that. Thanks for pointing that out. Caps means that you are yelling Lol So I gather that you believe that people must be baptized in order to be saved? And what about the thief then? Please clarify. All believers in the OT were saved without baptism. How were they saved? By faith (Hebrews 11). They trusted their sins were forgiven through the sacrificial system and the coming Messiah as the whole of the OT promulgates. It is presumed the thief was Jewish as he uses "kingdom" in his petition to Jesus. Was it possible the thief heard Jesus preach about the "kingdom" before is demise on the cross. One does not know. Scripture reveals at least two individuals were converted when Jesus was on the cross. The thief and the Roman Centurion. And both were converted the exact same way...through the preaching of the Word. As the Scriptures, say "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God." What is interesting, the preaching of or about Jesus comes from two separate sources: Jesus' own words as he does quote a psalm and secondly, from the Scribes and the Sadducee's in their accusations against Jesus. The Roman Centurion said after Christ's death "Surely, this man was the Son of God." So how does the Centurion who was a Gentile come to the conclusion he is the Son of God. The text doesn't state Jesus ever said these words, but it does state that the Sadducee's made these statements as the Centurion witnessed what was said. After six hours on the cross, the Centurion hears accusation after accusation by the Scribes and the Sadducees. It is interesting to note, these accusations contain statements of Jesus true teaching prior to being put on the cross. The centurion believes he Jesus is the Son of God because Matthew records twice his accusers said he was. So faith was worked into the Centurion in the oddest of all ways....through the accusations of Christ's accusers. He doesn't believe the Scribes and the Sadducees accusations but he believes the content of the accusations as true. Faith does come by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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