Will "Heathens" Be Present In The Kingdom Seen In Zechariah 14?

[Retrobyter]

40 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

Thanks for the response, we disagree

Satan is currently bound as shown, from one purpose, it is gathering the nations through devils in deception, to the valley of Megiddo for the final battle

The battle seen in Revelation chapters 16, 19, 20, are all the same battle, in parallel teachings of the same event

Shalom, t7t7.

Nonsense. This is like saying the Civil War, WWI, WWII, the Korean Police Action, and the Vietnam War were all the same battle! They are NOT "parallel teachings of the same event"; they are SEQUENTIAL EVENTS!

40 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

The souls seen in Revelation 20:1-6 are physically dead, and they aren't resurrected because that takes place at the second coming last day resurrection

The souls live and reign because believers are of the "Living" and not the "Dead" Luke 20:38

No, sir. That's not true. The whole point of John mentioning, ...

Revelation 20:4 (KJV)

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls (air-breathing-bodies) of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

... is that they WERE dead ("beheaded" is pretty dead!), but were NOT DEAD ANYMORE! "They LIVED and reigned with Christ!" THAT'S RESURRECTION!

[Retrobyter]

On 1/25/2022 at 1:28 PM, truth7t7 said:

I disagree, it's exactly what the bible teaches

Jesus returns in fire and final judgement, dissolving this earth by fire (The End)

Shalom, t7t7.

In @missmuffet's defense, she's absolutely right. It's like you skipped to the end of the book and just read the final paragraph without knowing how the account unfolds within the book! You've cut out SO MUCH OF THE SCRIPTURES when you do that.

It's time to read THE WHOLE STORY!

[truth7t7]

25 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

This is a faulty, dichotomistic conclusion. In a proposition formed from universals in formal logic, then one may use the p/~p conclusion. "If ~p, then p" or vice versa, "if p, then ~p." HOWEVER, if one doesn't have a proposition that is truly formed from universals but is rather formed by quantified statements, then such a simplistic conclusion is not valid. There are qualified statements in the whole context:

Zechariah 14:9-19 (KJV)

9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses. 11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth. 13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour. 14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance. 15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.

16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations (Hebrew: gowyim) which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship (bend the knees and bow to) the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles (the Festival of Booths, Sukkot). 17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Always check the WHOLE context and don't just pull the verses out that you think agrees with your point of view! That's called "eisegesis!"

This happens at the BEGINNING of the Millennium. "The filth of the daughters of Tsiown" and "the blood of Jerusalem" are sins of the nation of Israel. THESE must be purged before the Kingdom begins.

This is in the New Earth, when the New Jerusalem, God's "Tent," comes down to the surface of the New Earth. Therefore, this is about AFTER the GWTJ and the unjust being thrown into the Lake of Fire and Sulfur. Thus, this is also AFTER the Millennium.

The Lord will be king over the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem seen in Zechariah 14 where the river of life is flowing from New Jerusalem 

Yes the day of the Lord has taken place as Zechariah 14:1 clearly teaches, as the Lords last day fire in judgement is seen in Zechariah 14:12, as also shown in 2 Peter 3:10 in the day of the Lord

There will be no Millennial Kingdom on this earth as you claim, Jesus returns in fire and final judge.ent, dissolving this earth by fire (The End) 

Edited January 27, 2022 by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

7 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, t7t7.

In @missmuffet's defense, she's absolutely right. It's like you skipped to the end of the book and just read the final paragraph without knowing how the account unfolds within the book! You've cut out SO MUCH OF THE SCRIPTURES when you do that.

It's time to read THE WHOLE STORY!

I disagree, it's exactly what the bible teaches

Jesus returns in fire and final judgement, dissolving this earth by fire (The End)

[truth7t7]

14 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, t7t7.

Nonsense. This is like saying the Civil War, WWI, WWII, the Korean Police Action, and the Vietnam War were all the same battle! They are NOT "parallel teachings of the same event"; they are SEQUENTIAL EVENTS!

No, sir. That's not true. The whole point of John mentioning, ...

Revelation 20:4 (KJV)

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls (air-breathing-bodies) of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

... is that they WERE dead ("beheaded" is pretty dead!), but were NOT DEAD ANYMORE! "They LIVED and reigned with Christ!" THAT'S RESURRECTION!

We disagree, they are all the same battle in parallel teachings, and Revelation 20:1-6 is 100% in the Lords eternal spiritual, and it's not changing anytime soon

[Retrobyter]

23 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

The Lord will be king over the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem seen in Zechariah 14 where the river of life is flowing from New Jerusalem 

Yes the day of the Lord has taken place as Zechariah 14:1 clearly teaches, as the Lords last day fire in judgement us seen in Zechariah 14:12, as shown in 2 Peter 3:10

There will be no Millennial Kingdom on this earth as you claim, Jesus returns in fire and final judge.ent, dissolving this earth by fire (The End) 

Shalom, again, t7t7.

First, the "New Heaven" in Greek is "ouranon kainon," which means "a sky new," just as the "New Earth" in Greek is "geen kaineen," which means "an earth new." (See the Greek of Revelation 21:1. Both phrases are in the accusative case, meaning that they serve as direct objects [and their modifiers] to the sentence.)

So, the "new sky" is merely the atmosphere around the "new earth," which is the SURFACE of the planet.

Second, it's not THE SAME RIVER! The two rivers in Zechariah 14:8 flow out of the OLD Jerusalem! This is CLEARLY seen in just the SIZE of the New Jerusalem alone! There in Revelation 22:1-5, we read of ONE River of the Water of Life flowing from the Throne of God and of the Lamb WITHIN the New Jerusalem! One may presume, since this river flows down the median of the street throughout the New Jerusalem, that since the street probably goes to each of the 12 gates, that the ONE River is divided into twelve rivers and goes out the gates onto the New Earth.

HOWEVER, please note that the New Jerusalem is SO LARGE that there will be NO more sea, neither the former sea (the Dead Sea) nor the hinder sea (the Mediterranean Sea)!

So, two different river-systems; two different time periods. The first, here in Zechariah 14, is about the Millennium of Revelation 20; the second, in Revelation 22, is about the Eternal State!

Edited January 27, 2022 by Retrobyter

[Retrobyter]

13 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

We disagree, they are all the same battle in parallel teachings, and Revelation 20:1-6 is 100% in the Lords eternal spiritual, and it's not changing anytime soon

Of course we disagree. They are NOT "parallel teachings" because there are SEVERAL DIFFERENCES! Furthermore, there's no such thing as the "Lord's eternal spiritual." WHICH, by the way, are just two adjectives you've thrown together without a noun! "Eternal" WHAT? "Spiritual" WHAT?

[truth7t7]

7 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, again, t7t7.

First, the "New Heaven" in Greek is "ouranon kainon," which means "a sky new," just as the "New Earth" in Greek is "geen kaineen," which means "an earth new." (See the Greek of Revelation 21:1. Both phrases are in the accusative case, meaning that they serve as direct objects [and their modifiers] to the sentence.)

So, the "new sky" is merely the atmosphere around the "new earth," which is the SURFACE of the planet.

Second, it's not THE SAME RIVER! The two rivers in Zechariah 14:8 flow out of the OLD Jerusalem! This is CLEARLY seen in just the SIZE of the New Jerusalem alone! There in Revelation 22:1-5, we read of ONE River of the Water of Life flowing from the Throne of God and of the Lamb WITHIN the New Jerusalem! One may presume, since this river flows down the median of the street throughout the New Jerusalem, that since the street probably goes to each of the 12 gates, that the ONE River is divided into twelve rivers and goes out the gates onto the New Earth.

HOWEVER, please note that the New Jerusalem is SO LARGE that there will be NO more sea, neither to former sea (the Dead Sea) nor the hinder sea (the Mediterranean Sea)!

So, two different river-systems; two different time periods. The first, here in Zechariah 14, is about the Millennium of Revelation 20; the second, in Revelation 22, is about the Eternal State!

We disagree, the Kingdom seen in Zechariah 14 is the eternal kingdom, after the day of the Lord has taken place, same river of life in this kingdom as seen in Revelation 22:1-2, same place in the eternal kingdom in the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem

Edited January 27, 2022 by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

4 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Of course we disagree. They are NOT "parallel teachings" because there are SEVERAL DIFFERENCES! Furthermore, there's no such thing as the "Lord's eternal spiritual." WHICH, by the way, are just two adjectives you've thrown together without a noun! "Eternal" WHAT? "Spiritual" WHAT?

Jesus Christ is the Alpha/Omega he is outside of time and space, he is eternal, and those seen in Revelation 20:1-6 are in the Lords eternal, God is a Spirit, and his world is Spiritual

[Retrobyter]

1 minute ago, truth7t7 said:

We disagree, the Kingdom seen in Zechariah 14 is the eternal kingdom, after the day of the Lord has taken place, same river of life in this kingdom as seen in Revelation 22:1-2

Shalom, t7t7.

Now, you're just repeating yourself. Zechariah 14 is NOT the eternal Kingdom, BECAUSE the river seen in Zechariah 14 is NOT the same river as in Revelation22:1-2!

JUST DIG OUT A MAP OF ISRAEL AND LOOK AT IT! The Dead Sea is about 48 miles from the Mediterranean Sea! The width of the New Jerusalem is 1,380 miles! HOW ARE YOU GOING TO SAY THAT THESE RIVERS ARE THE SAME?!

IT'S TIME TO THINK!