Will "Heathens" Be Present In The Kingdom Seen In Zechariah 14?

[truth7t7]

17 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Very valid thoughts. I have thought hard on these too. Just being a king over a city is daunting. After the chaos of the Great Tribulation will I have engineers to do the sewerage? The Lord has seen fit to make these prophesies and He is also aware that they create potential problems. I also think that they will have to be solved using our faculties. I'm not one who turns to "spiritual solutions". Man is man and it is his duty to subdue the earth. We will have power and authority, but we have to solve the problems ourselves.

My answer is that I speculate (for it is not in scripture) that of the remainder of men, there will be enough talent over to overcome these problems. We know one thing for sure. The weapons factories will turn their production to agricultural machines for the great harvests (Isa.2:4, Mic.4:3). But let me also be honest. The Mohammedans have been pilgrimage-ing to Mecca for centuries. If the Great God of the universe says get yourself to Jerusalem ... or else, you can be sure man will soon have his travel down to a fine art. The drought, plagues and the "rule of the rod of iron" will do their work. An empty belly works wonders, and seeing your family at an empty table will shift men into action - I do believe. 

 

Isaiah chapter 2 and Micah chapter 4 represents the (Eternal Kingdom) in the New Heaven and Earth after the day of the Lord, as verse 22 clearly describes man's breath is taken from his nostrils, a parallel teaching of Zechariah 14:12 when men are consumed by the Lords fire as they stand on their feet

Isaiah 2:12-22KJV

12 For the day of the Lord of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low: 13 And upon all the cedars of Lebanon, that are high and lifted up, and upon all the oaks of Bashan, 14 And upon all the high mountains, and upon all the hills that are lifted up, 15 And upon every high tower, and upon every fenced wall, 16 And upon all the ships of Tarshish, and upon all pleasant pictures. 17 And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day. 18 And the idols he shall utterly abolish. 19 And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth. 20 In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats; 21 To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth. 22 Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of ?

Zechariah 14:12 KJV

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Edited January 26, 2022 by truth7t7

[AdHoc]

7 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Isaiah chapter 2 and Micah chapter 4 represents the (Eternal Kingdom) in the New Heaven and Earth after the day of the Lord, as verse 22 clearly describes man's breath is taken from his nostrils, a parallel teaching if Zechariah 14:12 when men are consumed by the Lords fire as they stand on their feet

Isaiah 2:12-22KJV

12 For the day of the Lord of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low: 13 And upon all the cedars of Lebanon, that are high and lifted up, and upon all the oaks of Bashan, 14 And upon all the high mountains, and upon all the hills that are lifted up, 15 And upon every high tower, and upon every fenced wall, 16 And upon all the ships of Tarshish, and upon all pleasant pictures. 17 And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day. 18 And the idols he shall utterly abolish. 19 And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth. 20 In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats; 21 To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth. 22 Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of ?

No my brother. You can't just select a scripture out of context. The second of Isaiah sets the setting in verses 1 to 5. It reads;

1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. 2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. 5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.

Now, every sober student of scripture knows the following:

V.1 this prophecy concerns Judah and Jerusalem.

V.2 in the last days (plural) the Lord's House will be established. If we interpret scripture with scripture, then this means a Temple. And truly, in Mark 11:17 the Lord says that the Temple was for all nations to pray in. This has not happened yet as three years later Jesus declared it "desolate" and 43 later it was destroyed. There must be a time after His return when a Temple is built and nations

V.3 Jerusalem will receive many visitors and nations will flow into it.

V.4 Christ shall be judge of the Nations - the Heathen

V.4 As I reported, weapons factories will turn their production into agricultural implements

V.4 There will be no more war and universal peace

Every student of Bible history knows that this time has not occurred yet. Every student knows that Jerusalem has never known peace except during Solomon's reign for 40 years. No Nations have flocked to Jerusalem to learn Christ's ways. And this prophecy concerns Jerusalem of JUDAH, a portion of land allotted to Israel (while Jerusalem lies within Benjamin). So this time is the time of restoration that has not yet been seen ON the EARTH, WITH CHRIST IN JERUSALEM regulating the Nations who COMPLY and who LIVE IN PEACE.

C'mon bro. It's time to drop the doctrine you disprove with nearly every scripture you post. Every time we add the context to your chosen scripture, we end up with the Millennium - Israel's restoration (Act.15:14-16).

[truth7t7]

25 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

No my brother. You can't just select a scripture out of context. The second of Isaiah sets the setting in verses 1 to 5. It reads;

1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. 2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. 5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.

Now, every sober student of scripture knows the following:

V.1 this prophecy concerns Judah and Jerusalem.

V.2 in the last days (plural) the Lord's House will be established. If we interpret scripture with scripture, then this means a Temple. And truly, in Mark 11:17 the Lord says that the Temple was for all nations to pray in. This has not happened yet as three years later Jesus declared it "desolate" and 43 later it was destroyed. There must be a time after His return when a Temple is built and nations

V.3 Jerusalem will receive many visitors and nations will flow into it.

V.4 Christ shall be judge of the Nations - the Heathen

V.4 As I reported, weapons factories will turn their production into agricultural implements

V.4 There will be no more war and universal peace

Every student of Bible history knows that this time has not occurred yet. Every student knows that Jerusalem has never known peace except during Solomon's reign for 40 years. No Nations have flocked to Jerusalem to learn Christ's ways. And this prophecy concerns Jerusalem of JUDAH, a portion of land allotted to Israel (while Jerusalem lies within Benjamin). So this time is the time of restoration that has not yet been seen ON the EARTH, WITH CHRIST IN JERUSALEM regulating the Nations who COMPLY and who LIVE IN PEACE.

C'mon bro. It's time to drop the doctrine you disprove with nearly every scripture you post. Every time we add the context to your chosen scripture, we end up with the Millennium - Israel's restoration (Act.15:14-16).

The first 5 verse you quote are showing the Kingdom "After"  (The Day Of The Lord) takes place, you think verses 12-22 below are non-existant, and man's breath isnt taken from his nostrils?

Isaiah chapter 2 and Micah chapter 4 represents the (Eternal Kingdom) in the New Heaven and Earth after the day of the Lord, as verse 22 clearly describes man's breath is taken from his nostrils, a parallel teaching of Zechariah 14:12 when men are consumed by the Lords fire as they stand on their feet

Isaiah 2:12-22KJV

12 For the day of the Lord of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low: 13 And upon all the cedars of Lebanon, that are high and lifted up, and upon all the oaks of Bashan, 14 And upon all the high mountains, and upon all the hills that are lifted up, 15 And upon every high tower, and upon every fenced wall, 16 And upon all the ships of Tarshish, and upon all pleasant pictures. 17 And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day. 18 And the idols he shall utterly abolish. 19 And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth. 20 In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats; 21 To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth. 22 Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of ?

Zechariah 14:12 KJV

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Edited January 26, 2022 by truth7t7

[Retrobyter]

1 hour ago, truth7t7 said:

Satan is "Currently" bound from "One Specific Purpose", And One Only?

"Deceive The Nations" To Battle

Shalom, t7t7.

Well, IF he were bound currently, that might be the ONLY reason he COULD be bound! However, what about the wars and skirmishes people are already in? What about the World Wars we've already been in, during the 1900s?

What about the fact that evil is still rampant in the earth, and the fact that haSatan still accuses us to God?

Revelation 12:1-12 (KJV)

1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

[The imagery here is that of the nation of Israel. See Joseph's dream in Genesis 37:9-10.] 

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

[This imagery speaks of haSatan the dragon who was ready to devour Israel's special child, the Messiah of God, the moment He was born. See Matthew 2:1-13.]

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 

[This refers to Yeshua` who, as God's Messiah, was decreed to rule all nations with a rod of iron (See Psalm 2:1-12.) This verse also speaks to His ascension. (See Acts 1:6-11.)]

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore [1,260] days.

[This speaks to Revelation 11:3 as the time when the two witnesses are prophecying to (feeding) Israel.]

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven,

"Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

This war in the sky hasn't happened, yet.

But, it shall!

1 hour ago, truth7t7 said:

The Non-Literal 1,000 Years (Revelation) 20:1-6 Are Taking Place Now In The Lords Spiritual, And Will Cease At The Future Second Coming

"In the Lord's Spiritual" ... WHAT? "Spiritual" is an adjective that modifies a noun or a pronoun. So, what is the word "spiritual" modifying?

Anyway, that's nonsense. According to the details found within Revelation 20:1-6, it most certainly IS a literal 1,000 years!

1 hour ago, truth7t7 said:

If A Tribulation Saint Were To Die One Day Before The Second Coming, He Enters Into The Non-Literal 1,000 Year Reign.

This is PURELY WRONG, and EASY TO PROVE!  Look at verse 4:

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Since, "souls" are "air-breathing creatures," and "they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years," then the First Resurrection is found in this verse or prior to it. And, since the First Resurrection is associated with the Second Coming, then you have a contradiction. How can the Second Coming associated with the First Resurrection be AFTER the Thousand Years which begins with a First Resurrection? Can't happen.

1 hour ago, truth7t7 said:

Many That Promote Millennialism Falsely Teach, Satan Cant Be Presently Bound Because Evil Exist In The World?

Well, not with the war-making caliber of evil that exists in the current world, anyway. This makes another contradiction. How can Satan be bound to keep him from deceiving the world for war, and allow him to be present when wars are happening in the world today?

1 hour ago, truth7t7 said:

Satan Is Presently Bound From (One Specific Purpose) As Is Clearly Seen In (Revelation) 20:7-8 Below That Interprets (Deceive The Nations) Is To Battle, Not General Evil In The World Presently.

Sorry, but that's just nit-picky and deceptive!

1 hour ago, truth7t7 said:

Satan Is Loosed At The End Of The Tribulation When The 6th Vial Is Poured Out As Seen In (Revelation) 16:12, The Deception Is Devils In False Miracles Going Forth To The Kings Of The Earth, To Gather Them To The Final Battle.

Not according to the Scriptures! Revelation 16:12 comes AFTER the return of our Lord at the seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:15-19), and IMMEDIATELY AFTER the tribulation, the sign of the sun, moon, and stars (Matthew 24:29-31) occurs, which is seen in Revelation 6:12-17!

1 hour ago, truth7t7 said:

Revelation 20:1-9KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

(Revelation) 16:12-14 & (Revelation) 20:7-8 Same Deception In Gathering The Nations To The Very Same Final Battle In "Parallel" Teachings Of The Same Event

(Revelation) 16:12-17KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

Well, the discerning mind will see that the two passages are NOT synonymous. Besides, they are separated by yet another battle in Revelation 19 as well as the "thousand years" in Revelation 20:1-6. You've made a mistake.

[Retrobyter]

On 1/25/2022 at 12:31 PM, truth7t7 said:

Thanks for the response, I Disagree

Shalom, t7t7.

No surprise there.

On 1/25/2022 at 12:31 PM, truth7t7 said:

No literal Kingdom on this earth, with mortal humans present is seen in Revelation 20:1-6, it's in the Lords eternal spiritual realm 100%, where no literal time exists

YES, there IS a literal Kingdom on this earth! It will be both BEFORE the Great White Throne Judgment as well as AFTER the GWTJ on the New Earth!

And ... wow! "no literal time exists?" Who says?! The Scriptures NEVER make such a claim! Time goes on ETERNALLY! Time = Distance / Rate. Without time, one has no movement! One would be FROZEN in place for all eternity!!! Is that what you want?

The Scriptures call future eternity, the "ages of the ages." That's TIME!

[truth7t7]

30 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, t7t7.

Well, IF he were bound currently, that might be the ONLY reason he COULD be bound! However, what about the wars and skirmishes people are already in? What about the World Wars we've already been in, during the 1900s?

What about the fact that evil is still rampant in the earth, and the fact that haSatan still accuses us to God?

Revelation 12:1-12 (KJV)

1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

[The imagery here is that of the nation of Israel. See Joseph's dream in Genesis 37:9-10.] 

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

[This imagery speaks of haSatan the dragon who was ready to devour Israel's special child, the Messiah of God, the moment He was born. See Matthew 2:1-13.]

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 

[This refers to Yeshua` who, as God's Messiah, was decreed to rule all nations with a rod of iron (See Psalm 2:1-12.) This verse also speaks to His ascension. (See Acts 1:6-11.)]

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore [1,260] days.

[This speaks to Revelation 11:3 as the time when the two witnesses are prophecying to (feeding) Israel.]

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven,

"Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

This war in the sky hasn't happened, yet.

But, it shall!

"In the Lord's Spiritual" ... WHAT? "Spiritual" is an adjective that modifies a noun or a pronoun. So, what is the word "spiritual" modifying?

Anyway, that's nonsense. According to the details found within Revelation 20:1-6, it most certainly IS a literal 1,000 years!

This is PURELY WRONG, and EASY TO PROVE!  Look at verse 4:

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Since, "souls" are "air-breathing creatures," and "they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years," then the First Resurrection is found in this verse or prior to it. And, since the First Resurrection is associated with the Second Coming, then you have a contradiction. How can the Second Coming associated with the First Resurrection be AFTER the Thousand Years which begins with a First Resurrection? Can't happen.

Well, not with the war-making caliber of evil that exists in the current world, anyway. This makes another contradiction. How can Satan be bound to keep him from deceiving the world for war, and allow him to be present when wars are happening in the world today?

Sorry, but that's just nit-picky and deceptive!

Not according to the Scriptures! Revelation 16:12 comes AFTER the return of our Lord at the seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:15-19), and IMMEDIATELY AFTER the tribulation, the sign of the sun, moon, and stars (Matthew 24:29-31) occurs, which is seen in Revelation 6:12-17!

Well, the discerning mind will see that the two passages are NOT synonymous. Besides, they are separated by yet another battle in Revelation 19 as well as the "thousand years" in Revelation 20:1-6. You've made a mistake.

Thanks for the response, we disagree

Satan is currently bound as shown, from one purpose, it is gathering the nations through devils in deception, to the valley of Megiddo for the final battle

The battle seen in Revelation chapters 16, 19, 20, are all the same battle, in parallel teachings of the same event

The souls seen in Revelation 20:1-6 are physically dead, and they aren't resurrected because that takes place at the second coming last day resurrection

The souls live and reign because believers are of the "Living" and not the "Dead"Luke 20:38

Edited January 27, 2022 by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

32 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, t7t7.

No surprise there.

YES, there IS a literal Kingdom on this earth! It will be both BEFORE the Great White Throne Judgment as well as AFTER the GWTJ on the New Earth!

And ... wow! "no literal time exists?" Who says?! The Scriptures NEVER make such a claim! Time goes on ETERNALLY! Time = Distance / Rate. Without time, one has no movement! One would be FROZEN in place for all eternity!!! Is that what you want?

The Scriptures call future eternity, the "ages of the ages." That's TIME!

Once again we disagree, Revelation 20:1-6 is the foundational claim of a literal Millennial Kingdom on this earth

No literal Kingdom on this earth, with mortal humans present is seen in Revelation 20:1-6, it's in the Lords eternal spiritual realm 100%, where no literal time exists

No Physical Kingdom

No Physical Throne

No Mortal Humans

Edited January 27, 2022 by truth7t7

[Retrobyter]

On 1/25/2022 at 11:04 AM, truth7t7 said:

There is one time of resurrection for all, this takes place on the (Last Day) at the Second Coming of Jesus Christ

There are (Two) resurrections on this (Last Day) the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life, on such the (Second) death resurrection has no power.

Shalom, t7t7.

It's easy to see how one can be confused about this, but one should note that the "Last Day" of this age (which ends with the Fire, the GWTJ, and the consignment to the Lake of Fire and Sulfur) will be a 1,000-year-long Day!

But, you're right; there WILL be two resurrections on this Last Day: The First General Resurrection to eternal life will be at the BEGINNING of the 1,000-year-long Day, and the Second General Resurrection to suffering and the Second Death will be at the END of the 1,000-year-long Day.

If both of these were on the same 24-hour day, that would make for a VERY BUSY DAY! Remember: We also read that Yeshua` said this:

Matthew 12:34-37 (KJV)

34 "O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. 35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. 36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."

Think about all the words that came out of your own mouth during the days of your life! You'll give an account for each one of them! That will take TIME, especially when one is JUDGED by them!

On 1/25/2022 at 11:04 AM, truth7t7 said:

1.) (First) Resurrection To Life
2.) (Second) Resurrection To Damnation, The Second Death

(Revelation) 20:6KJV
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The (Last Day) Resurrection Of All Below

(John) 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Two DIFFERENT, INDEPENDENT Resurrections!

On 1/25/2022 at 11:04 AM, truth7t7 said:

(John) 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Again, this is not a 24-hour day; it's a 1,000-YEAR Day!

On 1/25/2022 at 11:04 AM, truth7t7 said:

(1 Corinthians) 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

There are THREE Resurrections in view here: the Resurrection of the Messiah in 30 A.D., the Resurrection of those who are His at His Coming, and the One when the End comes! Don't let the numbering of the verses fool you. Verse numbers, introduced in the 16th Century (1555 A.D.), are NOT inspired. The FINAL Resurrection is when the Messiah shall have delivered up the Kingdom to God, even the Father. However, before He delivers up the Kingdom, He must reign until ALL of His enemies are subdued! That's the MILLENNIUM!

On 1/25/2022 at 11:04 AM, truth7t7 said:

The (Last Day) Judgement

(John) 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

This doesn't contradict what I was saying; it merely SUPPORTS what I've said!

[truth7t7]

15 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, t7t7.

It's easy to see how one can be confused about this, but one should note that the "Last Day" of this age (which ends with the Fire, the GWTJ, and the consignment to the Lake of Fire and Sulfur) will be a 1,000-year-long Day!

But, you're right; there WILL be two resurrections on this Last Day: The First General Resurrection to eternal life will be at the BEGINNING of the 1,000-year-long Day, and the Second General Resurrection to suffering and the Second Death will be at the END of the 1,000-year-long Day.

If both of these were on the same 24-hour day, that would make for a VERY BUSY DAY! Remember: We also read that Yeshua` said this:

Matthew 12:34-37 (KJV)

34 "O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. 35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. 36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."

Think about all the words that came out of your own mouth during the days of your life! You'll give an account for each one of them! That will take TIME, especially when one is JUDGED by them!

Two DIFFERENT, INDEPENDENT Resurrections!

Again, this is not a 24-hour day; it's a 1,000-YEAR Day!

There are THREE Resurrections in view here: the Resurrection of the Messiah in 30 A.D., the Resurrection of those who are His at His Coming, and the One when the End comes! Don't let the numbering of the verses fool you. Verse numbers, introduced in the 16th Century (1555 A.D.), are NOT inspired. The FINAL Resurrection is when the Messiah shall have delivered up the Kingdom to God, even the Father. However, before He delivers up the Kingdom, He must reign until ALL of His enemies are subdued! That's the MILLENNIUM!

This doesn't contradict what I was saying; it merely SUPPORTS what I've said!

I Strongly Disagree, the "Day Of The Lord" isn't a thousand years long as you claim, it's short and quick like a thief in the night, sudden destruction (The End)

2 Peter 3:10KJV

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

1 Thessalonians 5:3KJV

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by truth7t7

[Retrobyter]

On 1/25/2022 at 11:08 AM, truth7t7 said:

Zechariah 14:16, Who Will Be Left Of The Nations?

You will closely note, Zechariah 14:16 & Isaiah 4:3-4 are "Parallel" readings of the same event, as Isaiah gives a clear account of those who are left, those who are found in the book of life, the final judgement has passed, eternity has begun "After" The Day Of The Lord

You will closely note in Isaiah 4:4 below, Jerusalem will be purged by the spirit of (Judgement) & (Burning)

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Only The Righteous Are Left, The Book Of Life "Was" Opened (Every One That Is Written Among The Living)

Zechariah 14:16KJV
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

This is a faulty, dichotomistic conclusion. In a proposition formed from universals in formal logic, then one may use the p/~p conclusion. "If ~p, then p" or vice versa, "if p, then ~p." HOWEVER, if one doesn't have a proposition that is truly formed from universals but is rather formed by quantified statements, then such a simplistic conclusion is not valid. There are qualified statements in the whole context:

Zechariah 14:9-19 (KJV)

9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses. 11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth. 13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour. 14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance. 15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.

16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations (Hebrew: gowyim) which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship (bend the knees and bow to) the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles (the Festival of Booths, Sukkot). 17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Always check the WHOLE context and don't just pull the verses out that you think agrees with your point of view! That's called "eisegesis!"

On 1/25/2022 at 11:08 AM, truth7t7 said:

Isaiah 4:3-4KJV
3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem:
4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.

This happens at the BEGINNING of the Millennium. "The filth of the daughters of Tsiown" and "the blood of Jerusalem" are sins of the nation of Israel. THESE must be purged before the Kingdom begins.

On 1/25/2022 at 11:08 AM, truth7t7 said:

Revelation 21:24-27KJV
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

This is in the New Earth, when the New Jerusalem, God's "Tent," comes down to the surface of the New Earth. Therefore, this is about AFTER the GWTJ and the unjust being thrown into the Lake of Fire and Sulfur. Thus, this is also AFTER the Millennium.