Where is the Lord`s Own Throne?

[AdHoc]

7 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

You said - What IS VISIBLE is Ezekiel's Temple which reflects Christ's accomplishments and has EMANUEL dwelling in it - in Jerusalem.

My answer - `And above the firmament over their heads was the likeness of a throne in appearance like a sapphire stone; on the likeness of the throne was a likeness with the appearance of a man high above it......like the appearance of a rainbow in a cloud on a rainy day, so was the appearance of the brightness all around it. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord.` (Ez.1: 26 & 28)

I only wrote some of the vision but all of it is spectacular and reminds us of the vision John had in Rev. 1: 13 - 18, & 4: 2 - 9. The `living creatures` are Christ`s life and ministries that uphold the holiness of God.

The 4 living creatures are Christ`s Spirit of life, shown separately as 4 but in reality blended majestically into one Royal Divine Person, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Christ the King –  (Lion) Christ the Sacrifice (Heir) –  (Calf)

Christ the Mediator –  (Man) Christ the Creator –  (Eagle)

For Christ to fulfill God`s plan, His covenant to man, He needs to function in each area.

Christ is given the ultimate authority to rule, (Lion)

Christ humbled Himself to be the ultimate sacrifice, (Calf).

Christ is both God & man to be the Mediator of both, (Man).

Christ has ultimate power to create all things new, (Eagle). 

 

For Ezekiel this vision enabled him to remind Israel (in exile) that God would ultimately restore them. However to us reading with all of God`s word we realise that God fulfils His promises and that even in a vision we see the Christ as He would eventually be on His own throne.

 

`In visions of God He took me into the land of Israel; and set me on a very high mountain; on it towards the south was something like the structure of a city....` (Ez. 40: 2)

 

`Afterwards He brought me to the gate, the gate that faces towards the east. And behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east. His voice was like the sound of many waters; and the earth shone with His glory....The visions were like the vision which I saw by the River Chebar...

.Son of man, this is the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever...... and behold the glory of the Lord filled the house of the Lord....` (Ez. 43: 1 -4  &  7)

 

`the priests, the Levites....shall come near me to minister to me; and they shall stand before me to offer to me the fat and the blood, says the Lord God. They shall enter my sanctuary, and they shall come near my table to minister to me, and they shall keep my charge.` Ez. 44: 15 & 16)

 

`Behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing....They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain.` (Isa. 65: 18 & 25)

`then the Lord will create above every dwelling-place of Mount Zion, and above her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day and the shining of a flaming fire by night. For over all the glory there will be a covering.` (Isa. 4: 5)

 

Just a few scriptures from some of the longer passages.

 

We are talking at cross purposes. The Temple of Ezekiel that I said would be VISIBLE is a prophecy starting after 40 Chapters. You answer with a "vision" from Chapter 1. But a "vision" is given to a man so he can see what it is UNSEEN to others.

Next, the vision has nothing to do with Christ's Millennial reign. It is the tragic circumstances of God withdrawing His glory fro Solomon's Temple to allow Nebuchadnezzar's ravaging of Jerusalem.

Next, you have the four living creatures as "Christ's Spirit of life". On what basis? And how can Christ's Spirit of life worship Christ - for that is what the the four living creatures do in Revelation 4:8-9?

But then you quote Ezekiel 43, the section I alluded to, and in verse 1-7 you confirmed what I said. Messiah will live "in the midst of the children of Israel". I think you inadvertently, but unavoidably, settled our discussion.

[Reborn Kingdom Image]

What if the gateway to The Throne really is The Cross?

SALVATION is getting on The Cross ...right? That is where JESUS took on our Forsakenness. So how do you think you get on that Cross? You Uphold His Image after being Reborn to IT!!! That is the Key ...that is THE WAY.

Why did JESUS tell the guy on the cross next to Him that he would be in His Kingdom that day? i think we are missing something big here.

JESUS on The Cross Represented everyone Given to Him by The Father for all Time. It was everyone that Upheld The Son's Image. Everyone Elected with His Blood.

The Resurrection made that time connection possible ...The Reborn Image.

You can't "time travel" when you are anchored to your flesh (sin). You can't be Saved until you give up repeated sins.

So the question is: Is JESUS Judging right now from His Cross (Throne)? Is He dividing the sheep from the goats?

[AdHoc]

8 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Firstly, Jesus is reminding Israel of God`s promises to them. (Rom. 15: 8) Thus the parable of the servants in Luke 19: 17 - 19, refers to those of Israel when the Lord returns to deliver them as a nation.

 

Secondly, the `Who` in the highest heaven are the overcomers in the Body of Christ and the myriads of angels. (Rev. 3: 21,  Heb. 12: 22)

 

Not so my sister. The parable of Luke 19 starts like this;

12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to RETURN.

He "RETURNS" and in His POSSESSION is the Kingdom He RECEIVED. What you have to do is show Christ reversing this and returning to the heavens WITH HIS KINGDOM. You were unable to do this a few postings ago, and not only are there no scriptures that have Christ returning to heaven, but the prophets have Him living and being worshiped in Jerusalem. He is Emanuel - God WITH us.

Revelation 3:21 does not say that Christ's throne is in heaven. But Matthew 25:31 says it is on earth - for that is where the Nations are (v.32).

Hebrews 12:22 i have already dealt with - remember. Of the over 150 mentions of Zion or Sion, TWO show a Zion in heaven. That is hardly evidence that Christ will return there. the context of Hebrews 12 is God PRESENT chastisement and its effect of those who it lands. The author is pointing out that this age, unlike that of Law where the elders of Israel would have been killed if they touched the mountain, is an age of GRACE.

But I have a question for you. You use Hebrews 12:22 to show Christ ruling earth from heavenly Sion in the Millennium. How then is the tense PAST-continuous?

22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels

And is it not true that New Jerusalem comes down from God. The words "COME FROM" indicates it has left Him. It must be on earth because the Nations desire to enter it (Rev.21) - and do. Are the Nations in the heaven in the Millennium?

I don't mind what you hold as truth. And I am also aware that I could be wrong. But I've answered all your proofs. Shall we call it a days and meet again in some other discussion. I must say that you have been a model of courtesy.

Go well sister.

 

[Dennis1209]

On 2/10/2022 at 5:09 PM, Marilyn C said:

There is more to discuss however that is a start. What can you contribute?

I think that wherever God physically rules, reigns, and dwells, His throne is with Him.

Jeremiah 49:38 And I will set my throne in Elam, and will destroy from thence the king and the princes, saith the LORD.

I think the first chapter of Ezekiel describes the Cherubim transporting God's throne when He desires to move in that way.

Ezekiel 1:26 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.

[Marilyn C]

8 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

I think that wherever God physically rules, reigns, and dwells, His throne is with Him.

Jeremiah 49:38 And I will set my throne in Elam, and will destroy from thence the king and the princes, saith the LORD.

I think the first chapter of Ezekiel describes the Cherubim transporting God's throne when He desires to move in that way.

Ezekiel 1:26 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.

Hi Dennis,

I agree that God`s throne/authority and power is with Him, however I believe He does have a `seat of that authority, as is shown in Rev. 4.

The movement of the wheels etc to me, is a pictorial picture of God`s plans being outworked. 

[Marilyn C]

10 hours ago, AdHoc said:

We are talking at cross purposes. The Temple of Ezekiel that I said would be VISIBLE is a prophecy starting after 40 Chapters. You answer with a "vision" from Chapter 1. But a "vision" is given to a man so he can see what it is UNSEEN to others.

Next, the vision has nothing to do with Christ's Millennial reign. It is the tragic circumstances of God withdrawing His glory fro Solomon's Temple to allow Nebuchadnezzar's ravaging of Jerusalem.

Next, you have the four living creatures as "Christ's Spirit of life". On what basis? And how can Christ's Spirit of life worship Christ - for that is what the the four living creatures do in Revelation 4:8-9?

But then you quote Ezekiel 43, the section I alluded to, and in verse 1-7 you confirmed what I said. Messiah will live "in the midst of the children of Israel". I think you inadvertently, but unavoidably, settled our discussion.

And I do realise that the timing of Ez. 1 was to do with the destruction of the city. (Ez. 43: 3) Then I did understand, and mentioned Ez. 1 for that is the vision that Ezekiel saw also in regards to the visible temple in Jerusalem in the millennium.

`The visions were like the vision which I saw by the River Chebar.` (Ez. 43: 3)

 

Ezekiel also prophecies about Israel`s final regathering (Ez. 37) and of a man called David who will be their king.  Healing waters will flow and trees will also grow after the waters became blood in the trib. (Ez. 47)

 

 Ez. 43: 7  the Lord says `This is the place of my throne and the place of the soles of my feet where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel forever.`

 

I believe that is God`s authority (throne) and by His Spirit will dwell with Israel forever.

 

[Marilyn C]

10 hours ago, AdHoc said:

 

Next, you have the four living creatures as "Christ's Spirit of life". On what basis? And how can Christ's Spirit of life worship Christ - for that is what the the four living creatures do in Revelation 4:8-9?

 

There are four visions of the Son of Man as He is known in the heavenly realm & each vision in turn carries through to completion one aspect of the fourfold ministry of Christ which He exercised when on earth. His Kinship was expressed in Matthew, His Heirship in Mark, His Mediatorship in Luke, & His Judgeship in John.                       

Matthew - Christ as King.(lion)                                                                                        Mark - Christ as heir. (Ox)                                                                                                 Luke - Christ as the Son of Man. (Man)                                                                            John - Christ as the Son of God. (Eagle)

Then in revelation, the unfolding of the Lord as He is known in the heavenly realm brings to completion

Vision 1 - Christ as Head of the Body.                                                                              Vision 2. Christ as heir of the world.                                                                                Vision 3. Christ as Mediator of the New Covenant.                                                          Vision 4. Christ as Judge and creator of all things new.

His 4 fold ministries are all honouring to God - `give glory and honour and thanks to Him who sits on the throne.` (Rev. 4: 9)

Everything the Lord has done, is doing and will do gives honour and glory to God. Christ`s whole life is a fragrant offering to God. He always obeyed & obeys the Father, and lived a life worthy that honoured His Father.

                                                                                                                                     

 

 

 

 

 

[Marilyn C]

15 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Not so my sister. The parable of Luke 19 starts like this;

12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to RETURN.

He "RETURNS" and in His POSSESSION is the Kingdom He RECEIVED. What you have to do is show Christ reversing this and returning to the heavens WITH HIS KINGDOM. You were unable to do this a few postings ago, and not only are there no scriptures that have Christ returning to heaven, but the prophets have Him living and being worshiped in Jerusalem. He is Emanuel - God WITH us.

Revelation 3:21 does not say that Christ's throne is in heaven. But Matthew 25:31 says it is on earth - for that is where the Nations are (v.32).

Hebrews 12:22 i have already dealt with - remember. Of the over 150 mentions of Zion or Sion, TWO show a Zion in heaven. That is hardly evidence that Christ will return there. the context of Hebrews 12 is God PRESENT chastisement and its effect of those who it lands. The author is pointing out that this age, unlike that of Law where the elders of Israel would have been killed if they touched the mountain, is an age of GRACE.

But I have a question for you. You use Hebrews 12:22 to show Christ ruling earth from heavenly Sion in the Millennium. How then is the tense PAST-continuous?

22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels

And is it not true that New Jerusalem comes down from God. The words "COME FROM" indicates it has left Him. It must be on earth because the Nations desire to enter it (Rev.21) - and do. Are the Nations in the heaven in the Millennium?

I don't mind what you hold as truth. And I am also aware that I could be wrong. But I've answered all your proofs. Shall we call it a days and meet again in some other discussion. I must say that you have been a model of courtesy.

Go well sister.

 

Thank you, bro. I also have appreciated your gracious attitude. I think we are mature enough to realise that God`s word is His and He will guide people into all truth.

I did post Ps. 47 when Christ becomes King over the nations of the earth and then `GOES UP WITH A SHOUT.`

What I sense is that when you read `throne` you think it is Christ sitting on a seat, a throne. However we know that the word `throne` indicates authority and power. Thus we expect to see the Lord`s `throne,` authority and power in every part of God`s great kingdom - earth, the city, the angelic realm.

The city, the New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven FROM God, and is over the earth. The glory of the city lights up the world as it turns, so that the `nations walk in its light.` (Rev. 21: 24) This would not be possible if it was ON the earth.

Also the city is God`s rulership in the Universal heaven. It is the interlocking of the physical and spiritual realms. (symbolised by `bride,` - interlocking.)

As to the heavenly Zion, yes we see it in the General Assembly (now) and that is where God the Father will `set` His Son. (Ps. 2: 6) Mount Zion on earth is where king David ruled from, and Mount Zion in heaven, (symbolic picture) is where the Lord will rule from.

Note that Mount Zion and the city are separate. Mount Zion is where the king rules from, while the city comes down, and His authority is there but NOT His source of authority which is from the Father.

When Christ comes to earth with His might angels He delivers Israel, brings vengeance upon the rebellious, and judges the nations. The `throne` He `sits on` is the authority given by the Father and has its source in heaven. (John 5: 27,  Ps. 2: 6,  Rev. 4: 2)

Remember the Church, the Ekklesia, the called out ones are called out from Israel and from the nations. We are a separate group called for a heavenly purpose. Israel and the nations are of God`s earthly purpose.

 

 

 

  

[AdHoc]

14 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Thank you, bro. I also have appreciated your gracious attitude. I think we are mature enough to realise that God`s word is His and He will guide people into all truth.

I did post Ps. 47 when Christ becomes King over the nations of the earth and then `GOES UP WITH A SHOUT.`

What I sense is that when you read `throne` you think it is Christ sitting on a seat, a throne. However we know that the word `throne` indicates authority and power. Thus we expect to see the Lord`s `throne,` authority and power in every part of God`s great kingdom - earth, the city, the angelic realm.

The city, the New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven FROM God, and is over the earth. The glory of the city lights up the world as it turns, so that the `nations walk in its light.` (Rev. 21: 24) This would not be possible if it was ON the earth.

Also the city is God`s rulership in the Universal heaven. It is the interlocking of the physical and spiritual realms. (symbolised by `bride,` - interlocking.)

As to the heavenly Zion, yes we see it in the General Assembly (now) and that is where God the Father will `set` His Son. (Ps. 2: 6) Mount Zion on earth is where king David ruled from, and Mount Zion in heaven, (symbolic picture) is where the Lord will rule from.

Note that Mount Zion and the city are separate. Mount Zion is where the king rules from, while the city comes down, and His authority is there but NOT His source of authority which is from the Father.

When Christ comes to earth with His might angels He delivers Israel, brings vengeance upon the rebellious, and judges the nations. The `throne` He `sits on` is the authority given by the Father and has its source in heaven. (John 5: 27,  Ps. 2: 6,  Rev. 4: 2)

Remember the Church, the Ekklesia, the called out ones are called out from Israel and from the nations. We are a separate group called for a heavenly purpose. Israel and the nations are of God`s earthly purpose.

 

 

 

  

If you take New Jerusalem as a literal City, you have the following:

1. It comes DOWN - thus it must leave the highest heaven and God's throne
2. It comes FROM God but it still rules
3. It is a Woman
4. It is a Wife
5. It is a Mother
6. It is the tabernacle of God with men
7. God is the tabernacle so He too has left His throne
8. It is 2220 km cube
9. It is made of precious stones
10. Nations are outside of it but can visit it
11. It has a Wall but no threat
12. It has Gates but they are open, but some of the nations still cannot enter
13. It being 2220 km high, men cannot breath after about 5 km, and blood boils at 19.3 km That is, about 2,220 X 2,220 X 2200 KM, or 99.1%  of the cube is uninhabitable
14. Its light lightens the earth - how? The earth is a sphere,

.... and we could go on with more difficulties to your appreciation. But let us leave it off from here. If you want to be sure I'm wrong, why not go through the thread again and see if you satisfactorily answered my objections with plain scripture. Or see if you used scripture that had no plain language on this matter, but that needed extrapolation.

Whatever you decide, God bless

[AdHoc]

15 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

There are four visions of the Son of Man as He is known in the heavenly realm & each vision in turn carries through to completion one aspect of the fourfold ministry of Christ which He exercised when on earth. His Kinship was expressed in Matthew, His Heirship in Mark, His Mediatorship in Luke, & His Judgeship in John.                       

Matthew - Christ as King.(lion)                                                                                        Mark - Christ as heir. (Ox)                                                                                                 Luke - Christ as the Son of Man. (Man)                                                                            John - Christ as the Son of God. (Eagle)

Then in revelation, the unfolding of the Lord as He is known in the heavenly realm brings to completion

Vision 1 - Christ as Head of the Body.                                                                              Vision 2. Christ as heir of the world.                                                                                Vision 3. Christ as Mediator of the New Covenant.                                                          Vision 4. Christ as Judge and creator of all things new.

His 4 fold ministries are all honouring to God - `give glory and honour and thanks to Him who sits on the throne.` (Rev. 4: 9)

Everything the Lord has done, is doing and will do gives honour and glory to God. Christ`s whole life is a fragrant offering to God. He always obeyed & obeys the Father, and lived a life worthy that honoured His Father.

                                                                                                                                     

 

 

 

 

 

I like your analogy, and might even support it. But I think you should have posted scripture for your summation. Try this.

In Genesis 1 and 6 the earth is covered with water. It was a sign of God's judgment. The whole earth was subject to an unimaginable horror. This terror is recorded and man, when he sees the clouds gather and big drops of water start cascading out of a darkened heaven, he is traumatized ... UNLESS ... God has given him a comforting guarantee that He will not causes a billion floating, bloating decomposing corpses to litter the receding water. Man can rest because of the rainbow, but he is in another danger zone - a lake of Fire.

And TWICE since the floods is the anger of God provoked beyond measure. Once at Elijah's time when a Foreign woman provokes God with idol worship, and once at Elijah's time at the end of the age and the "day of the Lord". Israel has no rain for three and one half years the time that fire comes from heaven and 450 false prophets are killed by Elijah, and the world, having embraced a Gentile Woman, Mystery Babylon the Whore, descends into idolatry while Elijah again calls fire from heaven (Rev.11).

And BOTH these terrible provocations are surpassed by another two events. In Ezekiel God must vacate HIS HOUSE in Jerusalem because a "Beast" is coming, and in Revelation a Beast occupies the House of God again (2nd Thess.2). Now, what is to stop God annihilating the earth and all that is in it? The provocation is acute. What guarantee has  the creature have that it will survive God's wrath?

THE FOUR LIVING CREATURES is the guarantee.

When God made the living creatures He mad SIX of them; (i) the fish of the sea, (ii) the serpent or creeping things, (iii) the wild beasts ruled by the lion, (iv) the domestic beasts for man's service headed by the ox, (v) the birds that fly and which are headed by the eagle, and (vi) Man ... who was to head all things.

And when we read of the consummation of things in New Heaven and New Earth, what do we find? we find that ONLY FOUR are RECOVERED. The sea, a symbol of death, and a symbol of the military might of the nations, IS NO MORE. And so the fish have no future. But we are compelled to notice that for the serpent, or creeping things, there is also no recovery. The curse of death (the sea) is over and the curse of the serpent is "above all cattle" - forever (Gen.3).

OF THE LIVING CREATURES, THE FOUR REPRESENTED BY THEIR KINGS, ARE RECOVERED - the Man first, birds second, domestic beasts third and wild beats last. These four living creatures appear only when man is in danger of annihilation.

Your analogy is good. Christ is Chief MAN of all men. He is Chief of the heavens - an eagle. He is Chief of Bond-slaves - the mighty ox, and He is Chief of Kings - a lion. In His capacity as Chiefest of all, He does God's will and brings Him glory.

Matthew show Jesus first as King - but descendant of MAN (Abraham and David). Mark, shows no genealogy for the Servant's heritage does not count. Luke is a doctor and shows the Man Jesus - descendant of Adam. And John's genealogy is the pee-existing One Who has no beginning - the One who soars above the heavens - an Eagle.