John 8:44

[SavedOnebyGrace]

(John 8:44)  You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.  [ESV]

So what murder is Jesus referring to?

[MrBear]

I’m thinking  his role in Adam and Eve sinning brought death might be a reference to Satan being a murderer from the beginning 

Edited March 17, 2022 by MrBear

[Guest]

2 hours ago, MrBear said:

I’m thinking  his role in Adam and Eve sinning brought death might be a reference to Satan being a murderer from the beginning 

No.  Scripture tells us that Satan was a murderer from the beginning.  That is, before Creation of Adam and Eve.  So reading this literally, Satan was a murderer during or shortly after the creation of the Divine realm.

[Michael37]

5 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

(John 8:44)  You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.  [ESV]

So what murder is Jesus referring to?

 

In the Genesis of temporal history Satan is not just the cause of death both physical and spiritual of all mankind through his corruption, deception, and exploitation of Adam and Eve, but instrumental in the murder of Abel by Cain.

1Jn 3:11-12  For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another,  (12)  not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother's righteous.

[Selah7]

Satan has always been a murderer. The entire 28th chapter of Ezekiel is dedicated to Satan and how he became corrupt, as well as how he used his "ship" of Tyrus to corrupt the nations and the children of God, drawing them away from God.  Therefore, God has already judged Satan and has sentenced him to death.  

Ezekiel 28

Proclamation Against the King of Tyre

28 The word of the Lord came to me again, saying, 2 “Son of man, say to the prince of Tyre, ‘Thus says the Lord God:

“Because your heart is lifted[a] up,
And you say, ‘I am a god,
I sit in the seat of gods,
In the midst of the seas,’
Yet you are a man, and not a god,
Though you set your heart as the heart of a god
3 (Behold, you are wiser than Daniel!
There is no secret that can be hidden from you!
4 With your wisdom and your understanding
You have gained riches for yourself,
And gathered gold and silver into your treasuries;
5 By your great wisdom in trade you have increased your riches,
And your heart is lifted up because of your riches),”

6 ‘Therefore thus says the Lord God:

“Because you have set your heart as the heart of a god,
7 Behold, therefore, I will bring strangers against you,
The most terrible of the nations;
And they shall draw their swords against the beauty of your wisdom,
And defile your splendor.
8 They shall throw you down into the Pit,
And you shall die the death of the slain
In the midst of the seas.

9 “Will you still say before him who slays you,
‘I am a god’?
But you shall be a man, and not a god,
In the hand of him who slays you.
10 You shall die the death of the uncircumcised
By the hand of aliens;
For I have spoken,” says the Lord God.’ ”

Lamentation for the King of Tyre

11 Moreover the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 12 “Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, ‘Thus says the Lord God:

“You were the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created.

14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.

16 “By the abundance of your trading
You became filled with violence within,
And you sinned;
Therefore I cast you as a profane thing
Out of the mountain of God;
And I destroyed you, O covering cherub,
From the midst of the fiery stones.

17 “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor;
I cast you to the ground,
I laid you before kings,
That they might gaze at you.

18 “You defiled your sanctuaries
By the multitude of your iniquities,
By the iniquity of your trading;
Therefore I brought fire from your midst;
It devoured you,
And I turned you to ashes upon the earth
In the sight of all who saw you.
19 All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you;
You have become a horror,
And shall be no more forever.” ’ ”

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Selah7 said:

Satan has always been a murderer. The entire 28th chapter of Ezekiel is dedicated to Satan and how he became corrupt, as well as how he used his "ship" of Tyrus to corrupt the nations and the children of God, drawing them away from God.  Therefore, God has already judged Satan and has sentenced him to death.  

Ezekiel 28

Proclamation Against the King of Tyre

28 The word of the Lord came to me again, saying, 2 “Son of man, say to the prince of Tyre, ‘Thus says the Lord God:

“Because your heart is lifted[a] up,
And you say, ‘I am a god,
I sit in the seat of gods,
In the midst of the seas,’
Yet you are a man, and not a god,
Though you set your heart as the heart of a god
3 (Behold, you are wiser than Daniel!
There is no secret that can be hidden from you!
4 With your wisdom and your understanding
You have gained riches for yourself,
And gathered gold and silver into your treasuries;
5 By your great wisdom in trade you have increased your riches,
And your heart is lifted up because of your riches),”

6 ‘Therefore thus says the Lord God:

“Because you have set your heart as the heart of a god,
7 Behold, therefore, I will bring strangers against you,
The most terrible of the nations;
And they shall draw their swords against the beauty of your wisdom,
And defile your splendor.
8 They shall throw you down into the Pit,
And you shall die the death of the slain
In the midst of the seas.

9 “Will you still say before him who slays you,
‘I am a god’?
But you shall be a man, and not a god,
In the hand of him who slays you.
10 You shall die the death of the uncircumcised
By the hand of aliens;
For I have spoken,” says the Lord God.’ ”

Lamentation for the King of Tyre

11 Moreover the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 12 “Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, ‘Thus says the Lord God:

“You were the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created.

14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.

16 “By the abundance of your trading
You became filled with violence within,
And you sinned;
Therefore I cast you as a profane thing
Out of the mountain of God;
And I destroyed you, O covering cherub,
From the midst of the fiery stones.

17 “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor;
I cast you to the ground,
I laid you before kings,
That they might gaze at you.

18 “You defiled your sanctuaries
By the multitude of your iniquities,
By the iniquity of your trading;
Therefore I brought fire from your midst;
It devoured you,
And I turned you to ashes upon the earth
In the sight of all who saw you.
19 All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you;
You have become a horror,
And shall be no more forever.” ’ ”

What you quoted is certainly true, but it doesn't answer my question.  Who or what did Satan murder before Adam and Eve?

[Michael37]

6 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

What you quoted is certainly true, but it doesn't answer my question.  Who or what did Satan murder before Adam and Eve?

Before Genesis?

There are many unorthodox, esoteric, gnostic claims to events and personages not mentioned in the Bible, but the orthodox view of Satan being a murderer from the beginning draws on the Book of Genesis, after all it is the Book of Beginnings. . .

The beginning of:

• The Universe
• The human race
• Sin
• Redemption
• Family life
• Corruption of society
• The Nations
• The different languages
• A People set apart to God called Hebrews 

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

Before Genesis?

After John 1:1-1:3, taking Genesis 1:1 literally as the Gap Fact specifies.  But you are evading the question.  Who did Satan murder in the beginning before Adam and Eve?

[Michael37]

37 minutes ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

But you are evading the question. 

I raised my hand with the correct answer regarding the identifying of Satan as a murderer from the beginning.

I believe Scripture teaches Lucifer was perfect in all his ways and did not act in opposition to God until he allowed pride of place to make him jealous of Adam and Eve due to their relationship with the Lord. Having decided to contradict God and deceive Adam and Eve he become Satan the adversary, a beginning that was motivated to cause the spiritual and physical death of previously perfect mankind.  

[Starise]

I don't believe there is a direct answer to this question in scripture. There might be a partial answer or a lead. 

Jesus accuses any man who looks on a woman who isn't his wife with lust with the sin of adultery. God sees the heart before the action. God seen the sin in Satan's heart before he rebelled. What was that sin? Must have been murder for one.

There was a battle in heaven. In any battle there are usually casualties. If Satan could have killed God Almighty I believe he would have. How else do dictators rise to power? They don't hesitate to kill in order to take power. One of the first things Hitler did when he came to power was to have all of the opposition killed.

Murder was in Satan's heart so that makes him a murderer.