The alive and remaining are changed - doesn't that mean all the rest died?

[DeighAnn]

13 hours ago, Diaste said:

Not if this is in the GT and the wrath that follows. The above isn't the millennium, it's before that.

Isn't it the wrath that ends this age when they are avenged?  By the time Christ returns all the 'fellowservants' would have been killed.  

Let's say I lived and died 500 years ago and some vicious person really hurt me.  Wouldn't he have to be RAISED up to have GODS WRATH fall upon him for me to be avenged?   Vengeance is mine says God and so we are not to do it ourselves.  I have always believe that 'they will get theirs' but it will be from God.  That is going to take some resurrecting or do you believe it all takes place at the end of the millennium?  

[DeighAnn]

8 hours ago, kenny2212 said:

In this passage of scripture Paul is talking about what happens to Christians who die(in this passage they are referred to as those who "sleep in Jesus"). Paul is saying that Christians who have died are with the Lord. And at the Lord's coming(which I also believe is the rapture), Jesus brings them with him and unites their spirits with their spiritual bodies(2 Cor. 15:44). "We who are alive and remain" are Christians who are alive(still in their earthsuits)at the time the Lord comes.

God bless us all.

Thanks for reading. Any questions or comments?

COULD THIS be written AS IT IS if what you say is TRUTH?  Because I DONT see the 'delay'.  I see 'sown and raised'. 


I don't see sown and not raised THEN returned and then raised.  ALSO what I don't see is this taking place on a certain day date and time.  NOT UNTIL we are told about the alive and remaining AT THE END of the 'what happens at death' chapter.


1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead.

It is sown in corruption;
it is raised in incorruption:

1 Corinthians 15:43
it is sown in dishonour;
it is raised in glory:
it is sown in weakness;
it is raised in power:

1 Corinthians 15:44
It is sown a natural body;
it is raised a spiritual body.

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

[George]

27 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

All this took place when the graves opened and we came under the New Covenant, correct?  

Nope ... the last day is an indication to a future date.  It was said to Lazarus sister concerning Lazarus.  The issue is "last day" may be a indication of an extended period of time as in 1000 years.  There may be many events that take place and it's not clearly defined in Scripture to each aspect of the resurrection.  There's a peculiar passage ... Rev 20:⁵ But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

What's peculiar about this language is ... it's AFTER the 1000 year reign ... and stated, this is the "FIRST resurrection".  

So you have to take a look a bit deeper and realize that the passages I mentioned previously has many layers involved!

Be blessed,

George

[DeighAnn]

8 hours ago, AdHoc said:

I have not read the other answers so forgive men if I repeat somebody else. You are correct in all the activities of the nations after Christ returns. It is the basis for your question that holds the key to it. Here is the context;

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

The Thessalonian Church hosted Paul for just three short weeks (Act.17). In this time he taught the rapture. But as we see in all cases of the Bible, the rapture is for THE LIVING. It is to "caught away" BODILY. What the Thessalonian saints were "ignorant" of was, how will the DEAD Christians be with the Living when Christ returns with His saints. The discourse of 1st Thessalonians 4 concerns ONLY "those who sleep IN Jesus". Paul therefore informs them that the reason that the now dead saints will be with the living as they come down with Christ, is that BEFORE the LIVING are "caught away" to the sky, the DEAD will rise from Hades to the surface of the earth to join them. The sequence is as follows;

1. The living are on the surface of the earth
2. The dead are under the earth in Hades
3. The trump and shout of God sounds
4. The dead saints leave Hades and meet their new bodies on the SURFACE of the earth
5. The living saints are changed into their new bodies on the SURFACE of the earth (1st Cor.15:51)
6. Now (i) ALL are LIVING and (ii) ALL are CHANGED - and TOGETHER they are "caught away" to the air
7. Jesus, waiting HIDDEN in the clouds, receives them
8. They ALL are judged at the Bema
9. They ALL return with Christ (Rev.19)

This discourse ONLY concerns Christians. Israel and the Nations are resurrected to the surface of the earth. Israel will be resurrected when Christ burst from the clouds into sight above Mt. Olivet - not while He is hidden on the clouds. Then they are "gathered" (Matt.24:31) - but not to the clouds. They, like Philip in Acts 8, are gathered to another place on earth - from the nation of their diaspora to Canaan (Ezek.37). The Nations are never gathered, neither are they raptured. They are resurrected at the White Throne - a thousand years later.

How is it possible for a Christian to be dead ANYWHERE or at ANYTIME?  
 

John 11:23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.

John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this?

 

[George]

42 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

What happens to those who take the mark of the beast at His return?  Are the nations made up of those who did or others and if so who?

Sorry, they are dead ... awaiting their resurrection before the Great White Throne judgment.

The term those "left of the nations" clearly describes the remnant of the nations that did not come against Jerusalem.  1/6 of Gog / Magog, and the families of Egypt are those which are most clearly presented in Scripture.  However, it appears to be global as we very well may enter the Mill. Kingdom with millions of people to repopulate the world, whom saints in their resurrected bodies will be ruling over for the Lord.  Some over a city, others over 5 cities, and others over 10 cities.  Imagine a world, whereby there is no more abortion, no wars, no diseases like we understand it ... how many people do you suppose would be living at the end of a 1000 years? 

[DeighAnn]

29 minutes ago, Josheb said:

It is certainly true that at the final raising all the living and all the dead when all are gathered and brought for judgment those who pierced Jesus will be present. That will not likely be a 21st century occurrence. 

However, none of that is stipulated in Revelation 1:7 or its immediately surrounding verses. Verse 7 is written immediately following the declaration the vents described would be coming quickly because the time was at hand and just before the text tells us some of the events had been seen, some were then occurring, and the rest would "take place after these things." What is it, beginning with that Revelation 1 passage itself, and then moving outward through the whole of the book itself you see necessarily connecting verse 1:7 to Philippians 2:10 or 1 Thessalonains 4:16 and precluding it from Revelation 20:13? What is in Isaiah 26:14 leads you to believe is relevant to the Jesus-piercers of Isaiah 53:5, Matthew 27:25, and Revelation 1:7? 

What makes you think those who pierced Jesus in Revelation 1:7 were dead when Revelation 1:7 was written?

I always feel like English is my second language when in communication with you and the sad thing is, it's my only language.  

Why would it matter if those who pierced Jesus were dead or alive when Revelation was written?  It doesn't matter until the Lords Day.   


This is the BEGINNING of the Lords Day 
Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen.
In relation to Philippians IDK, but to 
1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first

 

This is the last event of the Lords Day
Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Isaiah 26:14 They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, THEY SHALL NOT RISE: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.
They don't rise up except in Judgment.  Which is just like the sea and death and hell delivering up their dead AT THE END, never rising before,  that which is different that those  'dead' who do at the beginning.  Those who pierced Him will STAND before Him in judgment and they will know the Truth of the matter.  

WHY don't you believe His return will take place in the 21st century?  Doesn't the parable of the fig tree 'cement' the timing?   We are experiencing the end of the beginning of sorrows wouldn't you agree?  The 'punishment' has been fulfilled and the nation of Israel is up and running with both its good and bad figs.  We basically have a one world everything with the www making all money one, one language, and most likely one government albeit we don't know it.  How much worse do you see it getting?  With you being amil all of it is past and you don't see it happening in any century do you?  Almost got me.  That's a ride I don't want to go on again, hope you don't mind.  

[DeighAnn]

45 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Do you think there is a holding cell someplace where all the billions of dead people are hanging around awaiting sentencing (the judgment has already been rendered ) and they're all going to be let out at the same time some "day" in the future? 

 

Revelation 6:14-17
The sky was split apart like a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.  Then the kings of the earth and the great men and the commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains;  and they said to the mountains and to the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?" 

 

Sounds pretty wrathful. Are they dead, or are they alive when asking to have rocks fall on them to avoid the Lamb's wrath? Doesn't the wrath of God be on both sides of the grave for some?

They are alive and soon to be dead.  Both sides?   

[DeighAnn]

40 minutes ago, George said:

Nope ... the last day is an indication to a future date.  It was said to Lazarus sister concerning Lazarus.  The issue is "last day" may be a indication of an extended period of time as in 1000 years.  There may be many events that take place and it's not clearly defined in Scripture to each aspect of the resurrection.  There's a peculiar passage ... Rev 20:⁵ But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

What's peculiar about this language is ... it's AFTER the 1000 year reign ... and stated, this is the "FIRST resurrection".  

So you have to take a look a bit deeper and realize that the passages I mentioned previously has many layers involved!

Be blessed,

George

Is there ever a 'last day' mentioned after Christ's resurrection?

[George]

15 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Is there ever a 'last day' mentioned after Christ's resurrection?

I posted every reference where the term 'last day' was used in the NT.

[DeighAnn]

37 minutes ago, George said:

Sorry, they are dead ... awaiting their resurrection before the Great White Throne judgment.

The term those "left of the nations" clearly describes the remnant of the nations that did not come against Jerusalem.  1/6 of Gog / Magog, and the families of Egypt are those which are most clearly presented in Scripture.  However, it appears to be global as we very well may enter the Mill. Kingdom with millions of people to repopulate the world, whom saints in their resurrected bodies will be ruling over for the Lord.  Some over a city, others over 5 cities, and others over 10 cities.  Imagine a world, whereby there is no more abortion, no wars, no diseases like we understand it ... how many people do you suppose would be living at the end of a 1000 years? 

What does coming against Jerusalem have to do with taking the mark of the beast?

Do you believe that there will be 'earth flesh bodies' during the Millennium?  How will flesh and blood be able to exist in 'heaven' since heaven will be on earth?  

I think ALL people will be in 'spiritual bodies', just not all 'immortal' ones, because I think people will either  die or be changed and there is no third category.  I think the nations are comprised of the 'dead' the rise at His return.  

Do you really think God would allow spiritual and earth bodies to occupy the same space again?   It didn't work out that well the first time.  We know there will be no death or grave anymore,  so will people just be allowed to torture each other  for another 1000 years?  And since flesh would need to be modified to make it 1000 years why not just head that off at the pass?  

Do you think Corinth 15 ONLY PERTAINS to Christians?  

1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

1 Corinthians 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

1 Corinthians 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

1 Corinthians 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

1 Corinthians 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Not for all people?  

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1 Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Can this be brought to pass if it doesn't apply to everyone?
 

1 Corinthians 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

1 Corinthians 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

1 Corinthians 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.