The alive and remaining are changed - doesn't that mean all the rest died?

[transmogrified]

28 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

Agree.  The nations that go into the millennial reign of Christ will be those who were deceived by false prophet, took his mark, worshiped the image but later repented during the plagues.  The repentant (humble) will inherit the earth.

Yes...the great multitude that John saw were those who came out of great tribulation and washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb...they washed their robes because their robes were stained with sin...but this was a great multitude no man could number out of every tribe, nation and tongue...these are the people who enter into the 1000 years in mortal bodies that we rule over as kings and priests with Christ...

 

[DeighAnn]

3 hours ago, transmogrified said:

There are two groups who lie in the graves...the wicked and the righteous...when the righteous are raised, they get immortal bodies, when the wicked are resurrected they get cast into everlasting fire.

You have those who have RECEIVED ETERNAL LIFE lying dead in the dust of the earth with those who haven't.  What is the gift of Salvation all about?  
 

John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

AGAIN, how do you take those who will NEVER DIE and place them with the dead?

[DeighAnn]

4 hours ago, transmogrified said:

Taking the mark is a sin that can be forgiven just like all other manner of sin and blasphemy...we could quote a scripture that says ''the wages of sin is death' and then make it appear that if you sinned then you would die, no way out...but yes, the wages of sin is death, but if you repent of your sins, then you will not die.

AS in ADAM ALL DIE.   ALL flesh bodies die.  That is the FIRST DEATH.  That is the 'death and then judgement' that comes to all men.

There is NO WAY to get around that.  NO ONE EVER EVER will not experience the first death because IN ADAM WE ALL DIE.  Don't fear the death of this flesh ESPECIALLY if you have been SAVED because if you have been saved you just PASS THROUGH as in 'change bodies' and keep on living no longer on earth with the rest of the flesh but in Heaven with Christ where He is.  

So even Christians 'die' sins washed clean and all.  REST assured, taking the mark of the beast is a SENTENCE to DEATH of the flesh.

There is only ONE TIME IN ALL TIME THAT ONE GROUP WILL NOT EXPERIENCE the DEATH OF ADAM and that is the group who is alive and remains to the END because CHRIST IS HERE.  THERE IS NO NEED TO GO FROM THE SEEN WORLD TO THE UN SEEN WORLD so THEY WILL DO what WE DO NOW only IT WILL BE IN A WORLD WE NOW SEE.  

If I were to die this very second, exactly what is taking place in the wink of an eye takes place JUST THAT NO ONE SEES IT HAPPENING.  When Christ returns it WILL BE SEEN.  

FOR all those who take the mark of the beast, it's  DROP DEAD and either RESURRECT with the 'dead in Christ that rise first' or be among 'THE REST of the dead who rise in at the end of millennium for judgment'.  


And no matter if sin is forgiven or not 'FLESH AND BLOOD can not inherit the kingdom of God.  THEY MUST DIE and receive an imperishable body for the 1000 years.

[DeighAnn]

4 hours ago, transmogrified said:

They were blinded because of unbelief...yes, there are scriptures stating God blinded their eyes, but just like Pharaoh, God knew he would not repent, even though he gave him opportunity to do so...so his foreknowledge and his will are two different things...God knew Peter would deny him three times...it was not God's will for Peter to deny Jesus, but Jesus knew it would happen..

The crux of the matter is that people do not receive the love of the truth, so God sends them strong delusion that they should believe a lie...God did not just randomly send them the strong delusion...they did not receive the love of the truth....this is what put them in the cross hairs...

By their own free will they rejected Jesus, and Paul is saying the same thing about when they get grafted in again...he said IF they remain not in unbelief, God will graft them in again...So yes, God draws them, but they have to willingly consent to his will. 

Blessings to you

Yes, but God isn't going to make people two thousand years later pay for what happened back then right?  So for the past 2 thousand years those who have been blinded the '1/12'  part of the tribes (won't lose one of the lost sheep) HAVE HAD A PURPOSE in Gods plan.  THEY HAVE no free will if God is blinding them.  That is why He takes the blindness off and THEY become EVEN MORE GLORIOUS than the first branches.  It isn't about us it's about Gods plan

[DeighAnn]

4 hours ago, transmogrified said:

There are two groups who lie in the graves...the wicked and the righteous...when the righteous are raised, they get immortal bodies, when the wicked are resurrected they get cast into everlasting fire.

The only nations that are saved at the Second Coming are those nations who are still alive at the time he returns...all the armies at Armageddon are killed, but this is just those armies at Armageddon, it is not the whole world...

So the nations that we rule over during the 1000 years do not 'rise' at the beginning of the 1000 years, if by 'rise' you mean 'resurrected.' The nations we rule over are existing people on the earth who are alive at the time Christ returns.

 

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1 Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

1 Corinthians 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

There will be no death.  Are you proposing that there will be people who are 1120 years old at the end of the millennium?  People who all sorts of cancers and are in pain are going to remain in that state for 1000 years.  People who have just been in a car accident and are now in a coma will remain that way for the next 1000 years and then be judged ON WHAT?   What you are telling me POSSIBLY might be found written in some way (IDK them) but the REALITY of it doesn't work.  

There is no way GOD can judge people who have PHYSICAL and MENTAL problems that effect their soul/spirit.  The millennium is the final effort for those who didn't ever HEAR THE TRUTH OF GODS WORDS FOR THOSE VERY REASONS.  Sorry, some schizo or someone in a coma or some one on an island in the middle of no where who never heard Gods truth is going to GET that opportunity and can only then be JUDGED.   These aren't just words and how do they fit, this is life and how does it work and what is just and right.  NEVER even in the beginning did anyone live to be 1000 and then it was changed to 120.  AND as in ADAM all must die.  That is of the flesh only.  The 2nd death is flesh and soul.  Can't have 2 without one
 

[transmogrified]

5 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

You have those who have RECEIVED ETERNAL LIFE lying dead in the dust of the earth with those who haven't.  What is the gift of Salvation all about?  

Just because you are saved does not mean you will never die physically...Jesus called is sleeping in Jesus...if we were not physically dead there would be no need of a resurrection...Jesus said that our friend Lazarus sleeps...the disciples thought he meant taking rest, but then he said plainly 'Lazarus is dead...' 

So when Mary said ''If you would have been here our brother would not have died....but then Jesus said 'your brother shall rise again...' She thought he was talking about the final resurrection at the last day, but Jesus was  meaning he was going to raise him from the dead right then, which he did...but of course Lazarus did die again and is waiting the resurrection on the last day as are all the other saints.

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You have those who have RECEIVED ETERNAL LIFE lying dead in the dust of the earth with those who haven't. 

Of course when we die we return to the dust from whence we came...we are in mortal bodies and will not get our immortal bodies until Jesus comes...then we will have bodies that never will die. 

 

5 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

AS in ADAM ALL DIE.   ALL flesh bodies die.  That is the FIRST DEATH.  That is the 'death and then judgement' that comes to all men.

There is NO WAY to get around that. 

Agreed...the only exception is if we are those who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord...Paul shows us a mystery...'we shall not all sleep, (die) but we shall all be changed...

4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

There will be no death. 

It is when we put on immortality that the saying is fulfilled...'death is swallowed up in victory...' the promise of no death is not to those in mortal bodies...it is when this mortal puts on immortality...the rest of the people are still in mortal bodies, so they are still subject to death.

5 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Don't fear the death of this flesh ESPECIALLY if you have been SAVED because if you have been saved you just PASS THROUGH as in 'change bodies' and keep on living no longer on earth with the rest of the flesh but in Heaven with Christ where He is.  

As Paul said, We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed...the two witnesses is a picture of what happens to the dead...it says they are killed and they lay in the street and they do not suffer their bodies to be put in the grave...so their bodies are already decomposing but after 3.5 days it says 'the spirit of life from God enters into them and they stand upon  their feet..' What just happened? They were first resurrected from the dead, then they stood upon their feet...they then heard a voice from heaven saying 'come up hither...' and they ascended up to heaven in a cloud and their enemies beheld them..'

So people saw their bodies rise up into heaven after they were resurrected...so the righteous dead are resurrected and ascend up into heaven first, but this happens on the last day, so they don't stay there long, as that very day they return with Jesus to Armageddon to fight at that battle with Christ.

5 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

So even Christians 'die' sins washed clean and all.  REST assured, taking the mark of the beast is a SENTENCE to DEATH of the flesh.

Yes, if they die in sin the smoke of their torment will ascend up forever and ever...however if they repent from taking the mark, then they won't suffer the second death.

The voice from heaven during the tribulation said 'Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen...and then the voice said 'Come out of her my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins and that ye receive not of her plagues...'

The voice from heaven would of not said to come out of her, if it was impossible to come out after being in Babylon...it also gave the promise if you do come out, you will not be a partaker of her sins and receive not of her plagues..." So God was providing a way out for anyone who would accept it.

There is another example that people could repent during the tribulation in Rev. 11:3...

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And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

It says the beast deceived all those that were dwelling on the earth except the saints, but here at the same hour the two witnesses ascended up to heaven at the 7th trumpet we see people who were affrighted at what they saw taking place and they gave glory to the God of heaven...how could they do this if they were locked into destruction because they had taken the mark? Repentance. Just like Nineveh...God said 'Yet 40 days and I will destroy this city..' yet the people repented and God did not do it...

The other issue from what seems to be said is that God has killed everyone who took the mark so there could be no one on the earth when he comes...however we can see this is plainly not the case.

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Matthew 24 says 'And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with great power...and all the tribes of the earth shall mourn because of him...'

Who would be there to see him coming if they had all been killed? Who are all the tribes of the earth that see him? 

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Rev. 1 says the same thing...'Behold he comes with clouds and every eye shall see him...even those who pierced him, and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him..' 

Who are all the kindreds of the earth who see him if they had all been killed? 

Rev. 2:26

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And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

 

Jesus does not rule over nations that do not exist or that have all been killed...

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And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

So yes, he smites the nations...this means he rebukes them, but he does not kill them...

And how would this be fulfilled in Rev. 15:4

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Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.

The nations could not come and worship before him if they were all killed.

Rev. 21:24-26

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And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

 

And how would the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into the city if they had all been killed?

Rev. 22:2

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In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

How does God heal the nations if they have all been killed? Remember, we are to reign with Christ as priests and kings...there is no reason to be a priest or a king over nations that do not exist.

Is. 2:2-4

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And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

 

Where do we get nations to flow unto Jerusalem to be taught of the Lord if they are all killed? He REBUKES the nations (does not kill them) and they repent as shown in their works...they don't lift up sword against nation any more.

9 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

And no matter if sin is forgiven or not 'FLESH AND BLOOD can not inherit the kingdom of God.  THEY MUST DIE and receive an imperishable body for the 1000 years.

Yes, flesh and blood does not inherit the kingdom of God...the nations who come under his rule at the Second Coming are not the inheritors of the kingdom, rather God inherits them, as it states in the following scriptures:

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Ps. 2:9 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

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Ps.82:8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

It is the saints who inherit and possess the kingdom:

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Daniel 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

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Daniel 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

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Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

 

10 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Yes, but God isn't going to make people two thousand years later pay for what happened back then right? 

No, they are not paying for someone else's sins...Israel to this day is in a state of unbelief, and the veil is upon their heart...each person who is grafted in will have to personally accept Jesus and repent of their own sins..those who pierced him and have been dead for all these years will be resurrected and be judged for what they did personally, regardless of what those before them did. 

10 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

There will be no death. 

The scripture that states 'death is swallowed up in victory' pertains only to those who have received immortal bodies...those in mortal bodies will still be mortal and subject to death.

10 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Are you proposing that there will be people who are 1120 years old at the end of the millennium? 

No, people die during the millennium. There would be no need to have a resurrection at the Great White throne if no one died during that time...Pre trib states the Great White Throne is for the resurrection of the wicked dead only, but this is not the case...the wheat and the tares are both judged and rewarded at the end of THIS age, not at the end of the next age...

10 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

There is no way GOD can judge people who have PHYSICAL and MENTAL problems that effect their soul/spirit. 

If a person gets in a car crash and goes into a state of unconsciousness, he will be judged by what his state was at that point...

10 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Sorry, some schizo or someone in a coma or some one on an island in the middle of no where who never heard Gods truth is going to GET that opportunity and can only then be JUDGED. 

It says those that have sinned in the law will be judged by the law..those Gentiles who have not the law will be judged by their own conscience...as it states :

 "For when the Gentiles do by nature the things contained in the Law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves...which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts meanwhile accusing or else excusing one another..." 

For example, even though there was no mosaic law at the time Sodom was destroyed, it says Lot was vexed with their 'unlawful' deeds... It says they were wicked sinners exceedingly against the Lord...even though there was no law against it they knew it was wrong, and God judged them for it.

10 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

NEVER even in the beginning did anyone live to be 1000 and then it was changed to 120. 

It does seem to say people will live longer, when it says the child shall die being an hundred years old...however they are still mortal beings and subject to death even if they live longer during that time...

It says death and hell gave up the dead that were in them, and whoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire...if no one had died during that time, death and hell would have no one to give up...

Blessings to you- Gary