QUESTION

[mandy3381]

My belief is(and i may be wrong, correct me if i am please)

Once a person accepts Jesus with their whole heart and Soul.. Knowingly and willingly turning their life over to christ , then they rest safely in the father's arms forever.

Now sometime later down the road if they should happen to willingly reject Christ and sin,then there are consequences..

If you are a christian, and you turn away, knowingly or unknowingly, God will reveal the sin and convict . He repramands his children.

Can we lose our Salvation..To tell you truthfully..I really couldnt say.. I have heard both, yes and no.

So i Trust my saviour to know whats best for me and continue to strive in his will.

YSIC

Mandy

[EricH]

Actually the correct terminology is the Persistance of the Saints

[Joy in the Journey]

Actually the correct terminology is the Persistance of the Saints

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you're a Calvinist...although I learned it as perseverance of the Saints

[Trust & Obey]

Actually the correct terminology is the Persistance of the Saints

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you mean "Persevering of the Saints."

[EricH]

Thats the ticket. It is actually more descriptive than OSAS

[Trust & Obey]

Thats the ticket. It is actually more descriptive than OSAS

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes.

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

I still find trouble with this passage. Christians do, at many times, fall into sin. Paul acknowledges this as does John.

Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

1Jo 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

1Jo 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

1Jo 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

John seems to have contradictory thoughts in the same passage. First he says a brother can sin a sin not unto death, there is such a sin... then he goes on to say that whoever is born of God sinneth not.

This is why the debate rages on. There are other passages that indicate that someone can fall under the condemnation of sin even after being saved, such as:

Jam 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;

Jam 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Bro Eric, what's your take on that James passage?

[EricH]

Thats the ticket. It is actually more descriptive than OSAS

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes.

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

I still find trouble with this passage. Christians do, at many times, fall into sin. Paul acknowledges this as does John.

Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

1Jo 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

1Jo 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

1Jo 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

John seems to have contradictory thoughts in the same passage. First he says a brother can sin a sin not unto death, there is such a sin... then he goes on to say that whoever is born of God sinneth not.

This is why the debate rages on. There are other passages that indicate that someone can fall under the condemnation of sin even after being saved, such as:

Jam 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;

Jam 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Bro Eric, what's your take on that James passage?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I love these easy questions

Here is my take on the James passage:

The immediate context of the passage starts at 5:13:

Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing praises. Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him. Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much. Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and e prayed earnestly that it might not rain; and it did not rain on the earth for three years and six months. And he prayed again, and the sky poured rain, and the earth produced its fruit.

James 5:13-18 NASB

Clearly James was adressing the issue of people who were sick. It appears that for some the reason for their illness was a sin issue. James instructions are for the elders to be called. The person is to repent their sinfulness and the elders are to pray for the individual. When they have met the above conditions they will experience restoration and healing.

In this context we read James 5:19-20

My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth, and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death, and will cover a multitude of sins.

James 5:19-20 NASB

In light of the fact that many were suffering physically as a result of sinfulness, James instructs those not in sin to attempt to restore the one who has slipped into sin. If the sinner is restored their life will be spared (the illness will not lead to death).

The thought seems to echo what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 11:30

For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep.

1 Cor 11:30 NASB

In that passage believers were taking the Lords Supper in an unworthy manner with unconfessed sin in their lives and were thus experiencing illness and death. I think the same principle is in operation in the James passage.

IMHO

[Pax]

OK...

Here's what I believe:

I don't believe that a person who is truly born again (and, true, only God knows who that person is) can sin deliberately and that if that person doesn't repent before dying then that person was never really saved in the first place.

My Pastor says "no" that "your sins were nailed to the cross" and that anyone who confeses with his mouth that Jesus is Lord and accepts Him as their Lord and Saviour is saved.

My problem with that is: I believe he is taking the meaning of "accept" waaaaay too lightly...That accepting would mean you will do your best to follow in the footsteps of Jesus, live righteously and be done with the world...That although we will always sin we will feel convicted and repent.

He says not always...

Any comments?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

All of us can sin deliberately, and do at one time or another, this is called a freewill. No one is perfect. Your argument is a textbook example of a person who believes in once saved, always saved, and this is the exact same thing I was taught growing up in the Baptist Church. All we have to do is profess that Jesus Christ died on the cross and we are saved...that's it, plain and simple. And if a person goes and does horrible things after professing that Jesus Christ died on the cross for us, than that person was never saved in the first place. How logical does this sound? It is very easy to say I believe in Jesus and he died on the cross for me. It is another thing to live ones life for Christ. And even then we are going to sin from time to time. What does scripture have to say on this.

Read: Mt. 7:21 "not everyone saying, Lord, Lord will inherit the kingdom.

Mt. 24:13 "those who perserve to the end will be saved." (why would you have to perserve to the end if you are already saved?)

Rom 11:22 "remain in his kindness or you will be cut off" (How can we be cut off we are saved?)

Phil 2:12 "work out your salvation in fear and trembling" (we are saved why do we have to work out our salvation through fear and trembling?)

Gal 5:4 "seperated from Christ you've fallen from grace." (how can we be seperated from God, we are saved?)

Your hunch about your pastor is very correct. Heaven is the greatest thing we could ever imagine and even then we can't even beign to understand what it will be like. Do you think it is that easy to get into heaven, by just saying I believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross for my sins. And one last note, Satan believes that Jesus Christ died on the cross....is he in heaven.

[Scarletprayers]

Great answer Pax, I agree 100%

[Trust & Obey]

OK...

Here's what I believe:

I don't believe that a person who is truly born again (and, true, only God knows who that person is) can sin deliberately and that if that person doesn't repent before dying then that person was never really saved in the first place.

My Pastor says "no" that "your sins were nailed to the cross" and that anyone who confeses with his mouth that Jesus is Lord and accepts Him as their Lord and Saviour is saved.

My problem with that is: I believe he is taking the meaning of "accept" waaaaay too lightly...That accepting would mean you will do your best to follow in the footsteps of Jesus, live righteously and be done with the world...That although we will always sin we will feel convicted and repent.

He says not always...

Any comments?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

All of us can sin deliberately, and do at one time or another, this is called a freewill. No one is perfect. Your argument is a textbook example of a person who believes in once saved, always saved, and this is the exact same thing I was taught growing up in the Baptist Church. All we have to do is profess that Jesus Christ died on the cross and we are saved...that's it, plain and simple. And if a person goes and does horrible things after professing that Jesus Christ died on the cross for us, than that person was never saved in the first place. How logical does this sound? It is very easy to say I believe in Jesus and he died on the cross for me. It is another thing to live ones life for Christ. And even then we are going to sin from time to time. What does scripture have to say on this.

Read: Mt. 7:21 "not everyone saying, Lord, Lord will inherit the kingdom.

Mt. 24:13 "those who perserve to the end will be saved." (why would you have to perserve to the end if you are already saved?)

Rom 11:22 "remain in his kindness or you will be cut off" (How can we be cut off we are saved?)

Phil 2:12 "work out your salvation in fear and trembling" (we are saved why do we have to work out our salvation through fear and trembling?)

Gal 5:4 "seperated from Christ you've fallen from grace." (how can we be seperated from God, we are saved?)

Your hunch about your pastor is very correct. Heaven is the greatest thing we could ever imagine and even then we can't even beign to understand what it will be like. Do you think it is that easy to get into heaven, by just saying I believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross for my sins. And one last note, Satan believes that Jesus Christ died on the cross....is he in heaven.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pax, you need to go back and read the Parable of the Sower. In it Jesus explained that there are 4 basic responses to the gospel. One outright rejects it. He is not saved. Two receive it gladly and then fall away after a period of time. These are not saved either. Lastly, one receives it and it bears fruit in their life. This is the only one that is saved.

The two that received it and fell away later were not saved. Although, they certainly appeared to be in the early days/weeks/months after their profession. But, only the seed that fell on good soil actually bears fruit unto salvation.

This is in perfect keeping with what "your Baptist upbringing" taught you. There will be many who profess Christ. Some will follow Him for their whole lives, others will fall away after a period of time. Those that fall away after a period of time are simply demonstrating that their soil was not good. These people were never saved to begin with and their falling away simply demonstrates that.

Remember what John said:

1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us: for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.