Riches

[kenny2212]

3 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

No what Jesus was saying is. 

https://biblehub.com/matthew/19-21.htm

If you want to be perfect, go sell your possessions and give to the poor and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me. 

 

He didn't say anything about using money for God. God doesn't need your money. 

Of course, I know God doesn't need our money.

Psalm 50:8-12 (NKJV) - 

8 I will not rebuke you for your sacrifices
Or your burnt offerings,
Which are continually before Me.
9 I will not take a bull from your house,
Nor goats out of your folds.
10 For every beast of the forest is Mine,
And the cattle on a thousand hills.
11 I know all the birds of the mountains,
And the wild beasts of the field are Mine.

12 “If I were hungry, I would not tell you;
For the world is Mine, and all its fullness.

But God had to ask for offerings when he wanted the Tabernacle built. God won't rain money down from heaven.

Exodus 25:1-8 (NKJV) - 

 

1 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying: 2 “Speak to the children of Israel, that they bring Me an offering. From everyone who gives it willingly with his heart you shall take My offering. 3 And this is the offering which you shall take from them: gold, silver, and bronze; 4 blue, purple, and scarlet thread, fine linen, and goats’ hair; 5 ram skins dyed red, badger skins, and acacia wood; 6 oil for the light, and spices for the anointing oil and for the sweet incense; 7 onyx stones, and stones to be set in the ephod and in the breastplate. 8 And let them make Me a sanctuary, that I may dwell among them.

Malachi 3:6-12 (NKJV) - 

 

⁶ “For I am the Lord, I do not change;

Therefore you are not consumed,  O sons of Jacob.
⁷ Yet from the days of your fathers
You have gone away from My ordinances
And have not kept them. Return to Me, and I will return to you,”
Says the Lord of hosts. 

“But you said,
‘In what way shall we return?’

 

⁸ “Will a man rob God?
Yet you have robbed Me!
But you say,
‘In what way have we robbed You?’
In tithes and offerings.
⁹ You are cursed with a curse,
For you have robbed Me,
Even this whole nation.
¹⁰Bring all the tithes into the storehouse,
That there may be food in My house,
And try Me now in this,”
Says the Lord of hosts,
“If I will not open for you the windows of heaven
And pour out for you such blessing
That there will not be room enough to receive it.

¹¹ “And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes,
So that he will not destroy the fruit of your ground,
Nor shall the vine fail to bear fruit for you in the field,”
Says the Lord of hosts;
¹² “And all nations will call you blessed,
For you will be a delightful land,”
Says the Lord of hosts.

 

Acts 10:4 (NKJV) - 

 

 

⁴ And when he observed him, he was afraid, and said, “What is it, lord?”

So he said to him, “Your prayers and your alms have come up for a memorial before God.

[Shilohsfoal]

38 minutes ago, kenny2212 said:

Of course, I know God doesn't need our money.

Psalm 50:8-12 (NKJV) - 

8 I will not rebuke you for your sacrifices
Or your burnt offerings,
Which are continually before Me.
9 I will not take a bull from your house,
Nor goats out of your folds.
10 For every beast of the forest is Mine,
And the cattle on a thousand hills.
11 I know all the birds of the mountains,
And the wild beasts of the field are Mine.

12 “If I were hungry, I would not tell you;
For the world is Mine, and all its fullness.

But God had to ask for offerings when he wanted the Tabernacle built. God won't rain money down from heaven.

Exodus 25:1-8 (NKJV) - 

 

1 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying: 2 “Speak to the children of Israel, that they bring Me an offering. From everyone who gives it willingly with his heart you shall take My offering. 3 And this is the offering which you shall take from them: gold, silver, and bronze; 4 blue, purple, and scarlet thread, fine linen, and goats’ hair; 5 ram skins dyed red, badger skins, and acacia wood; 6 oil for the light, and spices for the anointing oil and for the sweet incense; 7 onyx stones, and stones to be set in the ephod and in the breastplate. 8 And let them make Me a sanctuary, that I may dwell among them.

Malachi 3:6-12 (NKJV) - 

 

⁶ “For I am the Lord, I do not change;

Therefore you are not consumed,  O sons of Jacob.
⁷ Yet from the days of your fathers
You have gone away from My ordinances
And have not kept them. Return to Me, and I will return to you,”
Says the Lord of hosts. 

“But you said,
‘In what way shall we return?’

 

⁸ “Will a man rob God?
Yet you have robbed Me!
But you say,
‘In what way have we robbed You?’
In tithes and offerings.
⁹ You are cursed with a curse,
For you have robbed Me,
Even this whole nation.
¹⁰Bring all the tithes into the storehouse,
That there may be food in My house,
And try Me now in this,”
Says the Lord of hosts,
“If I will not open for you the windows of heaven
And pour out for you such blessing
That there will not be room enough to receive it.

¹¹ “And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes,
So that he will not destroy the fruit of your ground,
Nor shall the vine fail to bear fruit for you in the field,”
Says the Lord of hosts;
¹² “And all nations will call you blessed,
For you will be a delightful land,”
Says the Lord of hosts.

 

Acts 10:4 (NKJV) - 

 

 

⁴ And when he observed him, he was afraid, and said, “What is it, lord?”

So he said to him, “Your prayers and your alms have come up for a memorial before God.

 

https://biblehub.com/matthew/19-21.htm

Jesus answered, if you want to be perfect, go sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me. 

 

 

You believe Jesus was depriving God of the rich man's money or do you believe he was leading the rich man astray? Why do you believe the rich man should have done other than what Jesus told him to do? 

Edited May 22, 2022 by Shilohsfoal

[kenny2212]

48 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

 

https://biblehub.com/matthew/19-21.htm

Jesus answered, if you want to be perfect, go sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me. 

 

 

You believe Jesus was depriving God of the rich man's money or do you believe he was leading the rich man astray? Why do you believe the rich man should have done other than what Jesus told him to do? 

I believe Jesus' statement of "if you want to be perfect, go sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." was particularly for that man. That was his destiny. 

Zaccheus was also a rich man who met Jesus. Jesus didn't ask of Zaccheus what he asked the rich young man.

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, kenny2212 said:

I believe Jesus' statement of "if you want to be perfect, go sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." was particularly for that man. That was his destiny. 

Zaccheus was also a rich man who met Jesus. Jesus didn't ask of Zaccheus what he asked the rich young man.

https://biblehub.com/matthew/19-22.htm

I don't think eternal life was that rich mans destiny. He walked away from Christ sad because he had great riches. 

 

 Jesus answered the man straight forward and told him what to do. I dont remember Jesus ever telling anyone they needed to give thier money to him or to God though. I do remember people colecting money for the treasury. Jesus talked about those people who taught the law saying they devour widows houses. Alot of preachers like teaching the law, there's good money in it for them. Can't make any money telling rich people to give to the poor. 

[kenny2212]

6 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

https://biblehub.com/matthew/19-22.htm

I don't think eternal life was that rich mans destiny. He walked away from Christ sad because he had great riches. 

 

 Jesus answered the man straight forward and told him what to do. I dont remember Jesus ever telling anyone they needed to give thier money to him or to God though. I do remember people colecting money for the treasury. Jesus talked about those people who taught the law saying they devour widows houses. Alot of preachers like teaching the law, there's good money in it for them. Can't make any money telling rich people to give to the poor. 

 

Receiving eternal life was the plan God had for him. If he had agreed to do what Jesus said he would have been saved.

Remember the madman of Gadara (Mark 5). He wanted to follow Jesus but Jesus refused him. Exactly diametrically opposed to what Jesus offered the rich young man.

Did you even read what I wrote? I don't think you did. I gave you scripture. Did I not refer to Zaccheus? You guys just type without reading (thinking). After this reply I won't reply you anymore. It's clear you're looking for trouble.

I gave you scripture you're still arguing. Scripture is the final word. I'm sure you will still have something to say after all the scripture I gave.

I rest my case.

[Shilohsfoal]

54 minutes ago, kenny2212 said:

 

Receiving eternal life was the plan God had for him. If he had agreed to do what Jesus said he would have been saved.

Remember the madman of Gadara (Mark 5). He wanted to follow Jesus but Jesus refused him. Exactly diametrically opposed to what Jesus offered the rich young man.

Did you even read what I wrote? I don't think you did. I gave you scripture. Did I not refer to Zaccheus? You guys just type without reading (thinking). After this reply I won't reply you anymore. It's clear you're looking for trouble. I don't know why Worthy admits every Tom, Dick  and Harry. I gave you scripture you're still arguing. Scripture is the final word. I'm sure you will still have something to say after all the scripture I gave.

I rest my case.

I quoted Jesus. You quoted Moses. 

I rest my case. 

[Diaste]

22 hours ago, kenny2212 said:

What Jesus was saying in a nutshell is "Use your money for God"

I don't think so. This is teaching the tithe and I don't agree. 

The only thing Jesus is teaching is the supremacy of the Spirit over the world system. It's never about a material, inanimate thing or good, it's always about perception of the material and inanimate. 

The rich young man had the incorrect perception. Most do. 

I only give to individuals as they need and ask. Very little of charitable giving goes to the ones in need, most is spent on administrative costs. That includes the cult of organized religion. 

I will heed Paul: "As everyone purposes in their own heart, so let them give; not by constraint, for God loves a cheerful giver."

[Strict Machine]

On 5/20/2022 at 8:13 AM, Shilohsfoal said:

https://biblehub.com/mark/10-29.htm

https://biblehub.com/mark/10-30.htm

https://biblehub.com/mark/10-31.htm

I believe it is hard for a man to give up all that he has to follow Christ. A man with the Holy ghost can and many will. 

There are those who will be last (at the end of this age) who will give up everything including thier own lives to follow the Lamb. 

  i don't think this is necessarily just about money, Jesus also says what good is it for a man to gain the whole world, yet lose his soul?  Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?  (Matt 16:26, i think).  its pretty easy to get sucked into the world system, many real believers have left the faith because of greed, but this can also be status in the world system or anything that takes God's place.  success in the world can be like a drug addiction.

[Don19]

Riches in the Bible refers to the currency of this world - i.e., good works; i.e., all efforts of the flesh at righteousness. It's been pointed out that riches were seen as a sign of God's approval in the times of Jesus. This is true. And so this metaphor is perfect for today, in the world of what purports to be Christianity, where good works are seen as a sign of approval from God, when that approval from God is actually lacking.

Hence why Jesus said: "So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple." Luke 14:33

...and Matthew 13:44-46:

⁴⁴ Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.

⁴⁵ Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:

⁴⁶ Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

 

What this means is you cannot enter the kingdom of God while believing you are forgiven only for some sins, but not others. What's the most horrible sin you can imagine? I'll leave it you to imagine. Well, guess what. That one, if you were to commit it, is one you must believe you are forgiven for, along with all the others.

[kenny2212]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

I don't think so. This is teaching the tithe and I don't agree. 

The only thing Jesus is teaching is the supremacy of the Spirit over the world system. It's never about a material, inanimate thing or good, it's always about perception of the material and inanimate. 

The rich young man had the incorrect perception. Most do. 

I only give to individuals as they need and ask. Very little of charitable giving goes to the ones in need, most is spent on administrative costs. That includes the cult of organized religion. 

I will heed Paul: "As everyone purposes in their own heart, so let them give; not by constraint, for God loves a cheerful giver."

Of course, I know God doesn't need our money.

Psalm 50:8-12 (NKJV) - 

8 I will not rebuke you for your sacrifices
Or your burnt offerings,
Which are continually before Me.
9 I will not take a bull from your house,
Nor goats out of your folds.
10 For every beast of the forest is Mine,
And the cattle on a thousand hills.
11 I know all the birds of the mountains,
And the wild beasts of the field are Mine.

12 “If I were hungry, I would not tell you;
For the world is Mine, and all its fullness.

But God had to ask for offerings when he wanted the Tabernacle built. God won't rain money down from heaven.

Exodus 25:1-8 (NKJV) - 

 

1 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying: 2 “Speak to the children of Israel, that they bring Me an offering. From everyone who gives it willingly with his heart you shall take My offering. 3 And this is the offering which you shall take from them: gold, silver, and bronze; 4 blue, purple, and scarlet thread, fine linen, and goats’ hair; 5 ram skins dyed red, badger skins, and acacia wood; 6 oil for the light, and spices for the anointing oil and for the sweet incense; 7 onyx stones, and stones to be set in the ephod and in the breastplate. 8 And let them make Me a sanctuary, that I may dwell among them.

Malachi 3:6-12 (NKJV) - 

 

6 “For I am the Lord, I do not change;

Therefore you are not consumed,  O sons of Jacob.
7 Yet from the days of your fathers
You have gone away from My ordinances
And have not kept them. Return to Me, and I will return to you,”
Says the Lord of hosts. 

“But you said,
‘In what way shall we return?’

 

8 “Will a man rob God?
Yet you have robbed Me!
But you say,
‘In what way have we robbed You?’
In tithes and offerings.
9 You are cursed with a curse,
For you have robbed Me,
Even this whole nation.
10Bring all the tithes into the storehouse,
That there may be food in My house,
And try Me now in this,”
Says the Lord of hosts,
“If I will not open for you the windows of heaven
And pour out for you such blessing
That there will not be room enough to receive it.

11 “And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes,
So that he will not destroy the fruit of your ground,
Nor shall the vine fail to bear fruit for you in the field,”
Says the Lord of hosts;
12 “And all nations will call you blessed,
For you will be a delightful land,”
Says the Lord of hosts.

 

Acts 10:4 (NKJV) - 

 

 

4 And when he observed him, he was afraid, and said, “What is it, lord?”

So he said to him, “Your prayers and your alms have come up for a memorial before God.