Christ`s Seat of Power and Authority.

[Marilyn C]

15 hours ago, AdHoc said:

 

The 24 Elders who, having already had crowns, where the administrators UNTIL Christ is invested

Hi Ad Hoc,

Now I don`t think you realise what you are actually saying there. God the Father did not give any being rulership in the highest heaven, the third heaven before Christ. He is the ONLY one who is found worthy because of His great sacrifice.

 

1. Christ made each realm for Himself. 

`For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.` (Col. 1: 16)

2. God the Father has NOT crowned any other being since Lucifer.

3. The ONLY WORTHY ONE is Christ to hold the offices of Kingpriest. He conquered Satan, death and the grave, plus the Father appointed and anointed Him to the highest place. 

 

To say there are crowned administrators in the third heaven, before Christ is actually heresy.

 

Marilyn.

[AdHoc]

3 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Ad Hoc,

Now I don`t think you realise what you are actually saying there. God the Father did not give any being rulership in the highest heaven, the third heaven before Christ. He is the ONLY one who is found worthy because of His great sacrifice.

 

1. Christ made each realm for Himself. 

`For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.` (Col. 1: 16)

2. God the Father has NOT crowned any other being since Lucifer.

3. The ONLY WORTHY ONE is Christ to hold the offices of Kingpriest. He conquered Satan, death and the grave, plus the Father appointed and anointed Him to the highest place. 

 

To say there are crowned administrators in the third heaven, before Christ is actually heresy.

 

Marilyn.

Strong words my sister. If a man is to be accused of heresy, should he not be condemned on the actual words he used, not what somebody read into his words. Did I say "administrators in the third heaven before Christ"?

But it is much worse, for while I am of little account, You have called God's Word into question. Did the Elders have crowns or not? Did not Jesus Himself say that Lucifer - an angel - was "prince of this world" and that he was among the angels in heaven before God's throne (Job Chapter 1 & 2)? Is not Satan, "prince of the power of the air" cast from heaven in Revelation 12. To be cast from heaven means that you he to dwell there in the first place. Does not Jude tell us that Michael - angel of Israel, is lower than Lucifer? And is not Lucifer once "Covering Cherub" - guardian of God's holiness?

God has a huge administration. Even in the Millennium He rules Israel via David (Jer.30:9) and the twelve apostles (Matt.19:28).

But consider - who FIRST wore the crown of David? David or Christ. And when did Christ wear the crown of Israel? Not yet I think.

[Marilyn C]

12 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Strong words my sister. If a man is to be accused of heresy, should he not be condemned on the actual words he used, not what somebody read into his words. Did I say "administrators in the third heaven before Christ"?

But it is much worse, for while I am of little account, You have called God's Word into question. Did the Elders have crowns or not? Did not Jesus Himself say that Lucifer - an angel - was "prince of this world" and that he was among the angels in heaven before God's throne (Job Chapter 1 & 2)? Is not Satan, "prince of the power of the air" cast from heaven in Revelation 12. To be cast from heaven means that you he to dwell there in the first place. Does not Jude tell us that Michael - angel of Israel, is lower than Lucifer? And is not Lucifer once "Covering Cherub" - guardian of God's holiness?

God has a huge administration. Even in the Millennium He rules Israel via David (Jer.30:9) and the twelve apostles (Matt.19:28).

But consider - who FIRST wore the crown of David? David or Christ. And when did Christ wear the crown of Israel? Not yet I think.

Hi Ad Hoc,

Yes I realized they were strong words, however there is no one above the Lord in any way. That demeans the Lord and His sacrificial work upon the cross.

I think you may not realise that these are the Lord`s Kingship titles.

King of Glory. (Ps. 24: 7)

King of heaven. (Dan. 4: 37)

King of the Ages. (1 Tim. 1: 17)

King of Righteousness. (Heb. 7: 1 – 3)

King of the Jews. (Matt. 2: 2)

King of Israel. (John 1 : 49)

King Priest. (Heb. 6: 20)

King of the Nations. (Rev. 15: 3)

And finally King of Kings..... (Rev. 19: 16)

 

Christ has all those titles NOW. He was born KING. And that kingship is not dependent upon Israel. Remember all the things He had authority over - demons, sickness, nature, etc, etc. That kingship is NOT of this world. His authority as King is always from above.

Christ is far above all in this age and the one to come, and prior to His manifestation on earth He was in the Godhead over all. All those you mention are below Him.

Serious matters we are discussing, and there is NO room for speculation, imagination, but just scripture.

 

Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

15 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Strong words my sister. If a man is to be accused of heresy, should he not be condemned on the actual words he used, not what somebody read into his words. Did I say "administrators in the third heaven before Christ"?

But it is much worse, for while I am of little account, You have called God's Word into question. Did the Elders have crowns or not? Did not Jesus Himself say that Lucifer - an angel - was "prince of this world" and that he was among the angels in heaven before God's throne (Job Chapter 1 & 2)? Is not Satan, "prince of the power of the air" cast from heaven in Revelation 12. To be cast from heaven means that you he to dwell there in the first place. Does not Jude tell us that Michael - angel of Israel, is lower than Lucifer? And is not Lucifer once "Covering Cherub" - guardian of God's holiness?

God has a huge administration. Even in the Millennium He rules Israel via David (Jer.30:9) and the twelve apostles (Matt.19:28).

But consider - who FIRST wore the crown of David? David or Christ. And when did Christ wear the crown of Israel? Not yet I think.

Hi Ad Hoc,

Peter said the Body of Christ were kingpriests - `you are a chosen generation a ROYAL PRIESTHOOD.` (1 Peter 2: 9)

John said the Body of Christ were kingpriests - `and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father.` (Rev. 1: 6)

Jesus said the Body of Christ would reign with Him on His throne, (Kingpriests) - `To him who overcomers I will grant to sit with me on my throne..` (Rev. 3: 21)

And thus we see the Body of Christ represented by the 24 Elders. 12 for kings, (Matt. 19: 28) and 24 for kingpriests. (the Melchizedek order - kingpriests. Heb. 7: 1,  21) 

Where there is a HIGH priest, (the Lord) there are other priests, (the Body of Christ).

And note that Jesus is the ROOT of David. (Rev. 22: 16) He created King David`s line of Royalty. 

Marilyn.

[AdHoc]

10 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Ad Hoc,

Yes I realized they were strong words, however there is no one above the Lord in any way. That demeans the Lord and His sacrificial work upon the cross.

I think you may not realise that these are the Lord`s Kingship titles.

King of Glory. (Ps. 24: 7)

King of heaven. (Dan. 4: 37)

King of the Ages. (1 Tim. 1: 17)

King of Righteousness. (Heb. 7: 1 – 3)

King of the Jews. (Matt. 2: 2)

King of Israel. (John 1 : 49)

King Priest. (Heb. 6: 20)

King of the Nations. (Rev. 15: 3)

And finally King of Kings..... (Rev. 19: 16)

 

Christ has all those titles NOW. He was born KING. And that kingship is not dependent upon Israel. Remember all the things He had authority over - demons, sickness, nature, etc, etc. That kingship is NOT of this world. His authority as King is always from above.

Christ is far above all in this age and the one to come, and prior to His manifestation on earth He was in the Godhead over all. All those you mention are below Him.

Serious matters we are discussing, and there is NO room for speculation, imagination, but just scripture.

 

Marilyn.

 

But these titles were not the discussion. The point I made is that in casting down their crowns the Elders were abdicating. If they were abdicating, then they held a position from which to abdicate. When our Lord was tried before Pilate, did Jesus deny Pilate's authority. NO! He showed where it came from. No attack on our Lord's position as Creator and Lord of all is made at all. The point was that Pilate had authority - and that from God. This is not heresy.

Nebuchadnezzar is the most fearsome and sovereign king of antiquity. God Himself accords Nebuchadnezzar's government "gold". Israel are ravaged and vanquished and under the authority of Nebuchadnezzar. God's words are;

37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. 38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold (Da 2:37–38).

Where was then Jesus in this? Did God commit heresy for saying this? Did God demean Jesus's universal authority? Or did Daniel commit heresy by not saying that Jesus is actually the head of gold?

All I said was that the Elders had ruled, for that is the meaning of a crown. But that once our Lord's work form His Father's throne is complete, and He receives His own, the Elders must abdicate. Far from heresy, does this not rather show Christ's supremacy?

[AdHoc]

11 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Ad Hoc,

Peter said the Body of Christ were kingpriests - `you are a chosen generation a ROYAL PRIESTHOOD.` (1 Peter 2: 9)

John said the Body of Christ were kingpriests - `and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father.` (Rev. 1: 6)

Jesus said the Body of Christ would reign with Him on His throne, (Kingpriests) - `To him who overcomers I will grant to sit with me on my throne..` (Rev. 3: 21)

And thus we see the Body of Christ represented by the 24 Elders. 12 for kings, (Matt. 19: 28) and 24 for kingpriests. (the Melchizedek order - kingpriests. Heb. 7: 1,  21) 

Where there is a HIGH priest, (the Lord) there are other priests, (the Body of Christ).

And note that Jesus is the ROOT of David. (Rev. 22: 16) He created King David`s line of Royalty. 

Marilyn.

You nicely ducked every question I put forth in my defense. Let me observe:

Although the number 24 appears plainly in connection with the courses that David instituted according to the "pattern" of the heavenly, you discard this, and insert a private interpretation of 12 for the priesthood of Christians and 12 for their kingship to be added. No scripture for this is forthcoming.

You say that the BODY OF CHRIST will reign with Christ on His Throne. But you quote a scripture that say that ONLY OVERCOMERS of an apostate Church will. You conveniently left out the fact that the 12 apostles will sit on TWELVE Thrones, and those of Revelation 20:4 have THRONES.

My question concerning David and Christ was; David has been crowned king of Israel. Has Christ been crowned King of Israel? The answer is NO! Christ must wait for the Church to be complete and only "AFTER THIS" will He return to build the ruined House of David (Act.15:14-16). So, it is patently clear that David received a crown but Christ did not YET. In the grand scheme of things Christ will reign over David, but was it heresy to say that David had a crown and Jesus not? Is this any different to observing that the Elders had crowns but One enters Who had not yet a crown - and the Elders abdicate? 

In plain English, the word "became" tells that something that was not BECAME something. In Revelation 11 the Kingdoms of this world BECAME the Kingdoms of Christ. Is it true, or is it heresy, to say that Kingdoms once did not belong to Jesus? If Jesus says; "Thy Kingdom COME", is it heresy to say that God's Kingdom had not yet come? Or did our Lord Jesus get it wrong and pray a vain prayer? In Daniel Chapter 2 the prophet predicts four Gentile Kingdoms. These are to be crushed and replaced by the God of heaven. By all means of language, if these four kingdoms are to be replaced by a fifth, is it heresy to say that they were Kingdoms? The God of heaven retains all power to change government but only does it after 6,000 years of mankind.

1. Our Lord Jesus takes His rightful place before the 24 Elders AFTER they have reigned a while. True or not?
2. Jesus reigns in Jerusalem 3,500 years AFTER David. True or not?
3. Four Gentile Kingdoms reign BEFORE Christ's Kingdom does. True or false?
4. 24 Elders in heaven have crowns UNTIL our Lord Jesus enters the scene - and then ONLY cast them down. Heresy?

I think not.

By the way, the Greek word we render "heresy" in the Bible means "to choose". The connotation is choosing a political party with its opposing political view. In essence it means "to choose sides with a doctrine" as in Acts 24:14.