Moves toward the Kingdom

[Dafydd]

It seems to me that God is moving the church toward a more complete manifesting of the Kingdom through several different movements. First, there is a growing preterist interpretation of the Second Coming. Putting it bluntly, there is a growing sense that we are not waiting for Christ to return to build the Kingdom. He is already present and building the Kingdom NOW.

Secondly (and closely related) there is a growing sense that God still "speaks" to His people. Part (but not all) of this relates to spiritual gifts as operative today.

Thirdly, there is a move from "doing church' to "building the Kingdom"

Fourthly, there is a wider adoption of "Holy Spirit-led" consensus (Quaker style) in doing Christian business. The WCC is moving into this; a method previously practised by Quakers and groups such as the Bruderhof Community.

All of these will, I believe, come together more and more closely as the Kingdom is manifested increasingly on earth. In my opinion, something like the Bruderhof Community manifests a little of what the mature Kingdom will be. Imagine a world where nations have given way to confederations of Bruderhof-like communities, where business is owned by communities and where decisions (business and political) are made in the manner of Quaker business meetings. That, I believe, will happen in the future!

[Michael37]

2 hours ago, Dafydd said:

It seems to me that God is moving the church toward a more complete manifesting of the Kingdom through several different movements. First, there is a growing preterist interpretation of the Second Coming. Putting it bluntly, there is a growing sense that we are not waiting for Christ to return to build the Kingdom. He is already present and building the Kingdom NOW.

There is no hard evidence to support Kingdom Now Theology, but hey, speculate all you want @Dafydd.

[Eternally Gratefull]

On 6/26/2022 at 9:46 PM, Dafydd said:

It seems to me that God is moving the church toward a more complete manifesting of the Kingdom through several different movements. First, there is a growing preterist interpretation of the Second Coming. Putting it bluntly, there is a growing sense that we are not waiting for Christ to return to build the Kingdom. He is already present and building the Kingdom NOW.

Secondly (and closely related) there is a growing sense that God still "speaks" to His people. Part (but not all) of this relates to spiritual gifts as operative today.

Thirdly, there is a move from "doing church' to "building the Kingdom"

Fourthly, there is a wider adoption of "Holy Spirit-led" consensus (Quaker style) in doing Christian business. The WCC is moving into this; a method previously practised by Quakers and groups such as the Bruderhof Community.

All of these will, I believe, come together more and more closely as the Kingdom is manifested increasingly on earth. In my opinion, something like the Bruderhof Community manifests a little of what the mature Kingdom will be. Imagine a world where nations have given way to confederations of Bruderhof-like communities, where business is owned by communities and where decisions (business and political) are made in the manner of Quaker business meetings. That, I believe, will happen in the future!

have you studied prophecy much?

[Dafydd]

I have studied prophecy to a fair degree, but I rely much on those who are far more expert than myself, although nobody has all the correct answers and we must rely on the guidance of the Holy Spirit as we try to understand what the Bible really says about these (and all other!) matters.

[AdHoc]

On 6/27/2022 at 3:46 AM, Dafydd said:

It seems to me that God is moving the church toward a more complete manifesting of the Kingdom through several different movements. First, there is a growing preterist interpretation of the Second Coming. Putting it bluntly, there is a growing sense that we are not waiting for Christ to return to build the Kingdom. He is already present and building the Kingdom NOW.

Secondly (and closely related) there is a growing sense that God still "speaks" to His people. Part (but not all) of this relates to spiritual gifts as operative today.

Thirdly, there is a move from "doing church' to "building the Kingdom"

Fourthly, there is a wider adoption of "Holy Spirit-led" consensus (Quaker style) in doing Christian business. The WCC is moving into this; a method previously practised by Quakers and groups such as the Bruderhof Community.

All of these will, I believe, come together more and more closely as the Kingdom is manifested increasingly on earth. In my opinion, something like the Bruderhof Community manifests a little of what the mature Kingdom will be. Imagine a world where nations have given way to confederations of Bruderhof-like communities, where business is owned by communities and where decisions (business and political) are made in the manner of Quaker business meetings. That, I believe, will happen in the future!

If you read the New Testament from Acts Chapter 2 onward to the end of Revelation Chapter 3, what is the impression you would get? That the Church is growing, is more moral, is more spiritual? Or would you get the feeling that the Church is beset with problems, more are backsliding, the morality and spirituality is at a low and that the Lord is threatening to vomit us out of His mouth? I find only one Church in the letters, and only one Church in Revelation that was commended by the Holy Spirit. And 2nd Thessalonians Chapter 2 gives, as an indicator of our gathering in rapture, apostasy.

Maybe I've missed something, but if you asked me, the likelihood of the Kingdom being manifested by the present-day Christianity is highly unlikely. The manifestation of any Kingdom is the arrival of its King in power, pomp and glory. And so Daniel predicts the change of material government on earth only when "the stone not cut out with hands" crushes the fourth world power and the central religion that runs through them all. There is not a single verse in the New Testament predicting a revival toward the end. I would like to think there is, but both the Bible and the current condition of the Church tell another story.

[Marilyn C]

On 6/27/2022 at 11:16 AM, Dafydd said:

It seems to me that God is moving the church toward a more complete manifesting of the Kingdom through several different movements. First, there is a growing preterist interpretation of the Second Coming. Putting it bluntly, there is a growing sense that we are not waiting for Christ to return to build the Kingdom. He is already present and building the Kingdom NOW.

Secondly (and closely related) there is a growing sense that God still "speaks" to His people. Part (but not all) of this relates to spiritual gifts as operative today.

Thirdly, there is a move from "doing church' to "building the Kingdom"

Fourthly, there is a wider adoption of "Holy Spirit-led" consensus (Quaker style) in doing Christian business. The WCC is moving into this; a method previously practised by Quakers and groups such as the Bruderhof Community.

All of these will, I believe, come together more and more closely as the Kingdom is manifested increasingly on earth. In my opinion, something like the Bruderhof Community manifests a little of what the mature Kingdom will be. Imagine a world where nations have given way to confederations of Bruderhof-like communities, where business is owned by communities and where decisions (business and political) are made in the manner of Quaker business meetings. That, I believe, will happen in the future!

Hi Dafydd,

That is a demonic doctrine. God is NOT about fixing up this old sinful world system, He will judge it. 

God owns the whole world, it is His kingdom as well as the Universe and third heaven. He created them all and NEVER gave them away.

`The earth is the Lord`s, and all its fullness, the world and those who dwell therein...` (Ps. 24: 1)

God is about dealing with unrighteous RULERSHIP. That is what He will judge and all those bowing to it. The Gentiles have been given a certain time to rule and have been found wanting. The last Global Government will be utterly demonic and judged accordingly.  

Your statements are actually leading people to connect with this evil world system and try to fix it. 

"Come out from it...." 

Marilyn.

[AdHoc]

On 11/28/2022 at 3:24 PM, Walter Goraj jr said:

Why was the kingdom of God taken away from Israel?

What nation will become the kingdom of God?

What is the great nation that God promised to make of Abraham?

The FREE 27-page booklet "Royal Nation" presents the Bible’s answer to these questions.

Because of Abraham’s obedience, God promised to “make of thee a great nation” (Gen. 12:2), “kings shall come out of thee” (Gen. 17:6), “I will give unto thee and to thy seed after thee … all the land of Canaan for an everlasting possession” (Gen. 17:8), and “in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed” — Gen. 12:3.

Following the death of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, God dealt with Jacob’s twelve sons and their descendants, the nation of Israel. God liberated them from Egyptian bondage, made a covenant with them at Mt. Sinai, gave them prophets, judges and kings and sent them His son as their Messiah.

Because Israel rejected Jesus, he said unto them, “The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof” (Matt. 21:43). Jesus “came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name” — John 1:11-12.

The followers of Jesus or his church become this new nation. “But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; … Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God” — 1 Peter 2:9-10.

This royal, holy nation will bring mercy and salvation to the nation of Israel. They are the deliverer that comes from Zion and turns ungodliness from Jacob. “So all Israel shall be saved” — Rom. 11:26.

A pity you did not quote scripture for your thesis that the Church is the deliverer from Zion. From the earliest days of the Church the Jews have persecuted Christ's Church. A large percentage of Jews disregard Jesus and even actively hate Him. I propose that the "Deliverer from Zion" is Jesus Himself. I refer you to Zacharias' prophecy of Luke 1:67-79

67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: 71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; 72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; 73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, 74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, 75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life. 76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways; 77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins, 78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us, 79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace

The "Horn of salvation" is Jesus whom John was to announce. The term "Messiah" stands for that man that will save and liberate a people. The Church is not a Savior. What is most interesting is the beautiful tactics of the Lord in Israel's restoration. In the text of Romans 11:26 that you mentioned a "mystery" is alluded to. It is this; According to God's estimation, Israel (i) Never believe until they see Him Whom they pierced break through the clouds over Mount of Olives - yet they are forgiven their sins. The text reads;

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

In this text, nothing points to Israel ever believing. But mercy is extended and Israel (i) have their sins forgiven (on the basis that Christ died for the sins [trespasses] of the world - 1st Jn.2:2) and (ii) receive God's Promise of a New and better Covenant that writes the Law into their innermost being. This way, Israel will keep the Law and never be kicked out of the Land again. Of course FAITH brings other rewards - eternal life, sonship of God, partakers of the divine nature etc. These Israel can no longer gain, but Zachariah's prophecy stands.

[AdHoc]

5 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

Christians are of Abraham and his seed. Abraham's seed were those who received the literal  land of Canaan that God promised them. He owes them nothing more. Now we look ahead and hope that we , as Jews and Gentiles, are part of that remnant that was chosen to salvation  before the world began. 

To Abraham is promised THREE Seeds (i) Jesus Christ ("Seed" singular- Gal.3:16), (ii) "seed as the sand of the sea-shore" - Israel, God's earthly people, and (iii) "seed as the stars of heaven" - the Church, God's heavenly people. Each is HEIR to an inheritance. Jesus Christ, Heir to the Creation. Israel, Heir to Canaan and the service of the Temple. The Church, Heir to the WORLD (Rom.4:13). Each has a specific BIRTH. Jesus, seed of the woman by God (Matt.1:18, Lk.1:35). Israel by Jacob. The Church by being IN Christ, being seed of Abraham (Gal.3:29) and a BIRTH by the Holy Spirit.

1. Jesus is rejected and humiliated but inherits in great glory, pomp and with a name above every name
2. Israel is chastised by the diaspora and is restored at the dawn of the Millennium. Israel has a remnant who fulfill the Law for the recovery (Deut.30:1-5, Rev.12:17)
3. The Church is chastised during the Millennium and restored on the New Earth. The Church has "Overcomers" who inherit during the Millennium

God has set aside the Sabbath, or "seventh day" for His Rest (Hebrews 3 and 4). The Millennium is the Sabbath of 1,000-year days. Jesus will rule and subdue the nations and death with the Overcomers of the Church. Israel will host and serve Emmanuel in peace, prosperity and safety in Canaan.