The Word of God (Scripture)

[com7fy8]

6 hours ago, enoob57 said:

 I wait upon God in His objective resource to further my understanding of His precious Word that directs my life... 

I believe His word works like how He said, "Let there be," during creation and then what happened was what He meant.

What His word does is better than we can understand and produce on our own.

For example, He commands >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

Being ruled by God's own peace is so great, but not what we can understand; but we discover how this is as God does this with us. And there can be words for this, but there is no intellectual knowing that in words alone can tell us what it is like to be personally ruled by God His own peace. But we can have words for realities that we can experience in sharing with Him and one another.

It is like how no amount of words by themselves can have you experience a harbor scene. But words might be used to direct your attention to certain realities of the scene 

[enoob57]

Now we enter the fall of God's image (man) into sin Genesis 3:
The garden by it's description was rather large place and this truth brings us to the place of why they are at the tree of knowledge of good and evil... of course this is not answered by God but never the less there they are...

Genesis 3:1 (KJV)

[1] Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? [2] And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

Notice satan brings to bear the fact there is now forbiden area in the garden and Eve quickly responds we may eat from all the trees...

Genesis 3:3 (KJV)

[3] But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

but then tells what she knows about the forbidden tree and touching is now revealed to us... some say this was from Adam making doubly sure no violation >however< if the Bible doesn't say such we have an obedience to wait upon God 

2 Corinthians 10:5 (KJV)

[5] Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

this bringing into captivity to every thought to the obedience of Christ is making The Word of God our only source for thought because God has placed it as truth

John 17:17 (KJV)

[17] Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

so we don't know where this added touching came from God or Adam but we know it is not exaggeration or lie or sin would have already been exercised in Eve's heart...

Now Eve expresses death if we do and satan is revealed speaking through the serpent

Genesis 3:4 (KJV)

[4] And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Whenever you have direct conflict with Scripture it is of satan... as he is the enemy of God and his whole system is dependent upon truth to continue... his rebellion is again God Who "IS" truth... so when God places Him in hell where there will only be lie his system and purpose will cease as to purpose... He will be in torment without reason or purpose even from within himself... satan is pathetic in all areas of reason for although his total dependence is upon God yet he rebels of God to the nothingness of lie as though substance can be achieved there...

 

[enoob57]

On 8/23/2022 at 9:04 PM, com7fy8 said:

I believe His word works like how He said, "Let there be," during creation and then what happened was what He meant.

What His word does is better than we can understand and produce on our own.

For example, He commands >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

Being ruled by God's own peace is so great, but not what we can understand; but we discover how this is as God does this with us. And there can be words for this, but there is no intellectual knowing that in words alone can tell us what it is like to be personally ruled by God His own peace. But we can have words for realities that we can experience in sharing with Him and one another.

It is like how no amount of words by themselves can have you experience a harbor scene. But words might be used to direct your attention to certain realities of the scene 

I think your speaking in human abilities here   but one thing I remind my friends 

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV)

[15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

God's written Word lacks nothing toward our sanctification and ability to glorify God... It is the only resource by which all else is measured by: as God's creative Word (jesus), God's written Word (through the Jews) and God's living Word (Jesus in flesh) and The Holy Spirit to guide us through written, objective, format called the Scriptures...

[enoob57]

When eve was presented with 

Gen 3:4-5

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
KJV

Satan's full rebellion is brought forth "Ye shall not surely die" ... being in the result of death is there really any doubt who's in charge... not only did satan oppose 180 degrees but suggested God was keeping something of value from her and Adam! This again should tell us the confusion lie brings suggesting God has ulterior motives of trying to keep something from His creation... we see the fruit of lie 
1 Corinthians 5:6
6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
KJV
Galatians 5:9
9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.
KJV

The only recourse when lie is presented to you is to leave it where it is at and give it no place within you or you will become lie...

Gen 3:6a

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, 
KJV

At this point Eve has taken in the lie and it quickly spreads out as Scripture says

1 John 2:16-17

16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth forever. KJV

 

this also illumines this passage of Scripture here

James 1:15

15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
KJV

Even though Scripture says
1 Tim 2:14

14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
KJV

Eve has taken in the lie as truth and now acts upon that deception 
Gen 3:6b
she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
KJV

knowing from above Adam was not deceived the question is what motivated Him to directly defy God? This answer is not found

[enoob57]

Gen 3:7

7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
KJV

Their eyes were opened?
The Scripture reveals this in the spiritual sense:
            The initial thrust of the temptation given by the serpent
                 Genesis 3:5 (KJV)
                  [5] For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be
                    as gods, knowing good and evil.
                                      Spiritually indicated (cf. Ex 32:25; Ezek 16:22; Rev 3:17)

When Adam and Eve died spiritually, the moment they ate, the direct connection to the Persons of God were lost to mankind as original creation of God had bestowed....  God's comment on this:

                  Gen 3:22a
                    22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

The importance of this statement is phenomenal to the condition of fallen man! Adam in his dead spiritual state knew both good and evil. This presents to the Calvinist that their system of theology is incorrect... fallen man does know both good and evil and that alone sets up a choice of doing... "good or evil"... the only difference in the doing of good or evil is that man does either good or evil (in a spiritually dead condition)... This is why Jesus spoke of the necessity here:

John 3:3 (KJV)
[3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

This is why doing good (works) in a dead spiritual condition cannot save us

Titus 3:5 (KJV)
[5] Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

                   Genesis 3:22b
                    and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever: KJV

God's elective / predestined plan to save His created image is seen plainly here... this portion of God's comment is speaking of Adam in his fallen state and God's protection of said image, that no longer is connected directly to God by removal of the spirit (called spiritual death). By removing them from ability to eat from the tree of life and living forever in that state... my assumption is this would have sealed us in an eternal separation from God, in a place God would create, called hell... note the Calvinist position is that fallen state of man would not choose good but God by separating Adam and Eve from the 'tree of life' shows that is not true... and that man can choose good in his fallen state but of no consolation to the elective / predestined plan of God toward salvation... 'ye must be born again'!

 

[enoob57]

Gen 3:9

9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
KJV
The notable thing here is God is seeking out fallen man ...  and a very unique conversation through 'Word'.

Gen 3:10

10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
KJV
Calvinism states that fallen man cannot, (because of a dead man state), respond to God... yet in the very first instance Adam in his fallen dead man state is responding to God! Not only responding but showing forth moral conscious: fear for disobeying God, ashamed for his nakedness, and man's (only self-ability) was to hide from God...

Gen 3:11

11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
KJV
God is now dealing with the sin issue of disobedience to Him and is making it very clear the responsibility was upon Adam in his present state... Adam realizing his responsibility in all this, we know this by revealed Scripture 1 Timothy 2:14 (KJV) [14] And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression, further showing that man in his fallen state can know his culpability in sin...

Gen 3:12

12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
KJV
Adam now trying to take the focus off him, for the disobedience, by having Eve share in it... but God knows the heart and the first Timothy passage above tells us Adam knew full well his responsibility ... Adam did not want to own his sin alone as the ole phrase misery loves company...  

[Mr. M]

I find that translating logos = word a bit banal. The Son did not simply come to manifest 

the Word of God, He came to reveal what He meant. His intent.

Matthew 5:

21 You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder,

and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 

22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment.

And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’

shall be in danger of hell fire.

When I was contemplating the idea of logos, the Holy Spirit gave me this remembrance from my youth. 

I often found myself experiencing difficulties communicating with my father. I would try to do something

and found my father asking me "what are you doing?" I would respond, but you said to do this! to which he

would cleverly reply, don't do what I said, do what I meant. The Lord didn't simply come to repeat the words

spoken by His Father, He came to open our comprehension to what He meant. What He intended.

This is the meaning of the words of the apostle John.

1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding (comprehension), 

that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. 

This is the true God and eternal life.

This is found in our fellowship, in the breaking of bread.

Luke 24:

32 And they said to one another, Did not our heart burn within us while He talked with us on the road,

and while He opened the Scriptures to us?

35 And they told about the things that had happened on the road, and how He was

known to them in the breaking of bread.

[enoob57]

You have read me saying that Calvinism does not fit the flow of Scripture... here is case and point with Adam:

God is seeking out Adam and using His Word to reason with Adam. According to Calvinism man is dead in his fallen state and the Word has no effect unless God regenerates that person first. So one must ask- is God misleading us here? As we know God curses this world (Isaiah 45:7 (KJV) [7] I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.) in listed form: death, disease, pestilence, one must struggle to keep this existence, pain in childbirth, famine, etc. (calamity)

Yet, this is the witness of God Himself of man's fallen state:
Genesis 3:22 (KJV)
[22] And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever:

This is directly opposed to what Calvinist teach of the fallen nature of man, yet, we have God's Word on it right here...
Notice also Calvinist claim man in his fallen state does not desire anything of God and use this verse here to uphold this:
1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV)

[14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

God says man in his fallen state can know both good and evil and then God keeps fallen man from choosing to eat from the tree of life and this does not fit what the Calvinist are teaching...   Fallen man knows both good and evil and can desire the things of God (tree of life). Fallen man can respond to God but only in unredeemed flesh in deadness of spirit by works which cannot redeem himself... 'Ye must be born again'

[David1701]

7 hours ago, enoob57 said:

You have read me saying that Calvinism does not fit the flow of Scripture... here is case and point with Adam:

God is seeking out Adam and using His Word to reason with Adam. According to Calvinism man is dead in his fallen state and the Word has no effect unless God regenerates that person first. So one must ask- is God misleading us here? As we know God curses this world (Isaiah 45:7 (KJV) [7] I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.) in listed form: death, disease, pestilence, one must struggle to keep this existence, pain in childbirth, famine, etc. (calamity)

Yet, this is the witness of God Himself of man's fallen state:
Genesis 3:22 (KJV)
[22] And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever:

This is directly opposed to what Calvinist teach of the fallen nature of man, yet, we have God's Word on it right here...
Notice also Calvinist claim man in his fallen state do not desire anything of God and use this verse here to uphold this:
1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV)

[14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

God says man in his fallen state can know both good and evil and then God keeps fallen man from choosing to eat from the tree of life and this does not fit what the Calvinist are teaching...   Fallen man knows both good and evil and can desire the things of God (tree of life).

 

 

 

I notice that very few people are responding to these posts, and that's a very good thing.

James 3:1 (WEB) Let not many of you be teachers, my brothers, knowing that we will receive heavier judgement.

[farouk]

On 8/22/2022 at 7:55 PM, com7fy8 said:

It is like how Jesus spoke His word to the stormy sea, and the sea and air became calm. Whatever God's word says, trust God to do with us what His word means to Him.

@com7fy8 What you say reminds me of these words:

"Do you want a Pilot?
Signal then to Jesus;
Do you want a Pilot?
Bid Him come on board;
For He will safely guide
Across the oceans wide
Until you reach at last
The Heavenly Harbour."