Israel vs. Iran?

[Dennis1209]

16 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Or,

Daniel 11:40 “At the time of the end the king of the South shall attack him; and the king of the North shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter the countries, overwhelm them, and pass through. 41 He shall also enter the Glorious Land..."

-- the King of the North being a leader of the NATO nations; the military of which has been meddling too much in the Middle East's affairs. That is, according to the King of the South, which many now think is the leader of Iran. Which nation has proxy warriors in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Gaza, and Yemen, and undoubtedly also the "West Bank."

At least, that is the most likely current scenario. But who knows what Islamic Mahdi leader may arise in coming years? Egypt is looking more and more unstable these days...

What is fantastic is that we are the generation witnessing how these things are coming about. Fifteen, thirty, and fifty years ago, we didn’t know how this would prophetically shape up.

Russia, Iran, and Turkey’s presence on Israel’s northern border in Syria is a constant threat to Israel. The Arab Spring, Abraham Accords, Iran developing nuclear weapons, Iran and Turkey formally friends and allies turned enemies of Israel, Iran’s terrorist proxies, and so much more. Russia’s involvement and mutual defense treaties with everyone listed for the Gog-Magog invasion.

Never has there been a convergence of everything prophetic simultaneously. I am reading Matthew chapter 24 and other prophecies for our time, all check marks and increasing.

I suspect there will be a trigger that initiates the forthcoming end-time events. Israel has spent the most money (over a billion dollars) planning, financing, and training to strike Iran for its survival preemptively.

It is no secret Israel will not allow Iran to obtain nuclear capability; the only question is when, and I believe it has to be soon. Even the AEC finally admits Iran now has enough centrifuge material for their nuclear capability goal.

[choir loft]

On 8/29/2022 at 8:21 PM, Dennis1209 said:

Jeremiah 49:34-39 is a stand-alone prophecy that has never been fulfilled in history. This future prophecy, in my estimation, is about to be initiated, in my opinion. Israel has been financing millions, training, and preparing for a massive aerial strike in Iran.

The ancient land of Elam is now 1/6 of the SW border landmass of today's Iran. Most of Iran's nuclear production facilities are located in the Bushehr facilities. No one contests how close Iran is to their first atomic bomb. Regional Arab & Muslim nations are terrorized, with Iran having nuclear capability (pun intended).

Iran has openly admitted they will use it on "little Satan" (Israel) and "big Satan" (America). Israel has vowed not to permit Iran to join the nuclear club, period, and Iran may only be weeks away from accomplishing its objective.

In verse 35, the Lord will break Iran's bow (no arrows or missiles). A bow launches a projectile. Perhaps that is their delivery system, the chief of their might. If you cannot get it there, what good is it?

Verse 36 appears to be a humanitarian crisis involving possible radiation. What would one expect with the demolition of quantities of radioactive materials? According to those in the know, the most remarkable revival on earth is taking place in Iran. Millions of converts have accepted the Lord through visions and dreams and are sharing Jesus in Iran.

These Iranian Christian converts know this prophecy well and are not fearing it but looking forward to that day. They will flee this area because of the unseen radioactive danger and migrate to "every" nation. No doubt spreading their Christian testimony and sharing Jesus wherever they go.

Verse 37 states that the evil leadership of Iran is "dismayed" or destroyed, and I suspect this occurs a little later during the Gog-Magog invasion of Israel.

Verse 38 engages with the placement of God's throne, which is very intriguing.

Verse 39, "latter days," is assumed to be the millennium, possibly when the radioactivity has dissipated or has been removed by the Lord.

In Jer. 49:34-39, notice the "seven" I will's, seven being a biblical number.

Based on my hermeneutics above, does anyone see this prophecy as historically fulfilled? Or, way off in the distant future? Will or will Iran not become a nuclear superpower?

I look forward to the discussion.

 

According to scholars, Elam was descended from Esau (Genesis 36:1-19) and dwelt either in the region surrounding the Dead Sea or east of the Euphrates.  Sources disagree on locations.  According to the Bible, as well as Jewish tradition, it's the former location that's accepted.

Hebrew kingdoms and Edomites had always been disagreeable.  When Jerusalem fell in the days of Jeremiah the Edomites rejoiced.   History records that the inter-testamental rebellion of the Maccabees not only ejected Greek occupation of Israel but forced the Edomites who remained in the region to become Jews.  The culmination of the Maccabean war is observed during the Jewish holiday of Hanukkah. 

Additional prophecies against Edom may be found in: Ezekiel, Joel, Amos and Obadiah.

It should also be noted that the eastern Empire of Parthia was predominant during Jesus' earthly ministry.  When Jesus was born the wise men who came to pay homage traveled to Israel from the Empire of Parthia.  Parthia is also known as Persia and the modern state of Iran.

In Revelation 16:12 and 9:16 a curious story is related.

The latter passage says that at some future time the waters of the Euphrates river will be dried up.  The water will be dried up so as to allow the passage of an army of two hundred million to enter Parthia/Persia/Iran.   Interpretations of the past hundred years or so all seem to agree that the huge army will have its point of origin in China.  (Additional Biblical references may apply...)

Thirty years or so ago, the Communist Chinese government began plans to establish what they called a trade route to the west - to rebuild the ancient Silk Road.  (Google: Silk Road)  The project was called the Belt and Road Initiative (Google: Belt & Road Initiative) and was the largest construction project undertaken by the Chinese since the Great Wall.   

The belt was planned as a series of sea lanes that hugged the coast of southeastern and southern Asia from China to the Persian Gulf (Ports of Iran) and the Suez Canal.  The road was a highway and rail line cut through the massive Himalaya mountains from western China to a termination point in eastern Iran.   Western experts said it couldn't be done and few western media sources recorded its construction or progress.  

As of this writing the road has been completed.

In addition, it is well known that a global drought is being experienced in every nation.   In Iran it's been reported that the Euphrates River is drying up.  (Google it)

Whether or not one accepts Biblical predictions of the political alignment of nations prior to the 2nd coming of Christ it remains a fact that these matters have occurred.  One can bury one's head in the sand and ignore them or one can REPENT of their SINs and make peace with God.

The end of history as we've known it has already commenced.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

Edited September 16, 2022 by choir loft

[Dennis1209]

On 9/16/2022 at 8:10 AM, choir loft said:

The latter passage says that at some future time the waters of the Euphrates river will be dried up.

Extreme drought + Turkey and water terrorism The Euphrates Dam - Rojava Center for Strategic Studies (nrls.net) = Euphrates dry as a bone. It is possible the same scenario could apply to Egypt with the Ethiopian Dam. Both of these are recent, and the glass half darkly is settling and clearing up some as events progress and unfold.

Russia is using fossil fuel to bend the world to their wishes, it appears Ethiopia and Turkey will use water in the middle east for the same purposes. World events are on the fast track now to usher in the return of Jesus, IMO. 

 

[WilliamL]

On 9/15/2022 at 6:38 AM, Dennis1209 said:

It is no secret Israel will not allow Iran to obtain nuclear capability; the only question is when, and I believe it has to be soon.

Will believe it when I see it. They have been making this threat for years.

Iran probably has the bomb already, and is just playing shell games with the world. They certainly have all the technology, because they financed and worked with the North Koreans for years in the development of their nuclear weapons. Including being guests at their a-bomb tests.

[WilliamL]

On 9/16/2022 at 7:10 AM, choir loft said:

According to scholars, Elam was descended from Esau (Genesis 36:1-19)

No reputable scholar I've heard of says any such thing, and neither does this passage of Genesis.

Elam was one of the sons of Shem:

Gen. 10:22 The sons of Shem were Elam, Asshur, Arphaxad, Lud, and Aram.

The Book of Daniel tells precisely where Elam was, and still is:

Daniel 8:2 I saw in the vision, and it so happened while I was looking, that I was in Shushan, the citadel, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in the vision that I was by the River Ulai.

Elam was eastward of Babylonia, being a western province of what we now know as Iran. Where the ancient city Shushan/Susa was, one of the three capital cities of Persia, now Iran.

[Dennis1209]

32 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Will believe it when I see it. They have been making this threat for years.

Iran probably has the bomb already, and is just playing shell games with the world. They certainly have all the technology, because they financed and worked with the North Koreans for years in the development of their nuclear weapons. Including being guests at their a-bomb tests.

Was it doubting Thomas who coined that phrase  https://worthychristianforums-h45go6maxh5rpepgu.netdna-ssl.com/uploads/emoticons/default_noidea.gif

[WilliamL]

21 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Was it doubting Thomas who coined that phrase  https://worthychristianforums-h45go6maxh5rpepgu.netdna-ssl.com/uploads/emoticons/default_noidea.gif

I see the emoticons don't work for you either! https://worthychristianforums-h45go6maxh5rpepgu.netdna-ssl.com/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png

[choir loft]

23 hours ago, WilliamL said:

No reputable scholar I've heard of says any such thing, and neither does this passage of Genesis.

Elam was one of the sons of Shem:

Gen. 10:22 The sons of Shem were Elam, Asshur, Arphaxad, Lud, and Aram.

The Book of Daniel tells precisely where Elam was, and still is:

Daniel 8:2 I saw in the vision, and it so happened while I was looking, that I was in Shushan, the citadel, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in the vision that I was by the River Ulai.

Elam was eastward of Babylonia, being a western province of what we now know as Iran. Where the ancient city Shushan/Susa was, one of the three capital cities of Persia, now Iran.

What do you consider reputable scholarship?

Indeed there is a variation of interpretation as to the origins and references to Elam not to mention precise identification of the name.

I can provide such references, but I doubt you'd acknowledge them as valid.   My point here is that there is a variation of interpretation which does indeed exist.  Denying it only complicates the issue. 

The definition you provided in your post is entirely accurate with regard to ONE interpretation.   There are others that don't necessarily fit into the world view of TV preachers.   I wonder if this is the real reason for your objection.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

[WilliamL]

On 9/22/2022 at 2:02 PM, choir loft said:

The definition you provided in your post is entirely accurate with regard to ONE interpretation.

Yes, with regard to the record of the Genesis and 1 Chronicles.

You are unable to quote any biblical source to support your belief. And unwilling to provide any other source. So why would anyone accept your mere word about it?

[Dennis1209]

On 9/22/2022 at 3:02 PM, choir loft said:

What do you consider reputable scholarship?

Indeed there is a variation of interpretation as to the origins and references to Elam not to mention precise identification of the name.

I can provide such references, but I doubt you'd acknowledge them as valid.   My point here is that there is a variation of interpretation which does indeed exist.  Denying it only complicates the issue. 

The definition you provided in your post is entirely accurate with regard to ONE interpretation.   There are others that don't necessarily fit into the world view of TV preachers.   I wonder if this is the real reason for your objection.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Good morning, choir loft,

I get in a hurry many times and make a mistake. Without looking at the name on the quote from @WilliamL I assumed it was a response for me. There have been times I have meant Elam for Edom and vice versa. I went back to see where I made this error, correct my mistake, and apologize. Maybe I copied and pasted the wrong thing? I couldn’t find where I said that then I noticed it was not me, LOL.

WilliamL is correct as stated in all my resources, with one cited below:

Elam (Heb. ʿêlām) (PLACE)

Name denoting both a region in highland Fars province (Iran) around the modern city of Shiraz, the ancient capital of which was Anshan (Tal-i Malyan), and a state, the size of which fluctuated throughout its history and at times incorporated modern Khuzistan, parts of Luristan, and western Kerman as well as the heartland of Fars. The Table of Nations (Gen. 10:22; 1 Chr. 1:17) lists Elam, along with Assur, as a son of Shem, undoubtedly because of the historical connections between Elam and her Mesopotamian neighbors (cf. the role of Elamite archers in the Assyrian and Babylonian armies; Isa. 22:6; Jer. 49:35), rather than for any ethnolinguistic reason (Elamite is unrelated to either Akkadian or Sumerian).^[1]

At any rate, my point was comparing Jerimiah 49:34-38 to what we see today. I’ve found no documented historical records where Elam (S.W. Iran) has ever had a diaspora globally, and it sounds like a humanitarian crisis.

If those that hold this view (myself included) are correct, it should be validated or denied soon. As I alluded to earlier, Israel has openly spent a tremendous amount of money and training for this strike. We can take a Jewish vow to the bank. Israel will not tolerate Iran being nuclear-capable for their very own existence. The phrase is, “never again.”

 

 

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^[1] Potts, D. T. “Elam.” Ed. David Noel Freedman, Allen C. Myers, and Astrid B. Beck. Eerdmans dictionary of the Bible 2000: 386–387. Print.