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choir loft

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  1. From the point of view of organization of the books of the Tanakh, Daniel isn't included with prophetic books because most of what he wrote was history. This doesn't mean Daniel didn't make predictions. It means he was primarily a historian. However, since you said Jesus' reference about Daniel is good enough for you, I assume you also agree with the gospel quote of Jesus denying the rapture. That's me hollering from the choir loft....
  2. Scholars have been arguing about the origins and linguistic meanings of words since they were first committed to paper. Who are you to suppose you have all the right answers? What is the correct order? What does it have to do with proving false rapture doctrine? Nothing at all. Do you know? Or are you a Protestant American that believes only his copy of the Bible has the correct order? What other Christians believe about canon: The Catholic and Orthodox churches (meaning the bulk of Christians in the world) accept the Deuterocanonical books. They call it the second canon. These are books from the Septuagint, or Hebrew writings from the Greek period of their history. Generally the collection is called the Apocrypha. These books are not accepted by Protestants or Jews. The Protestant Bible contains the same books in the same order as the Catholic canon, except for the Apocrypha. The Jewish Tanakh contains the same canonical books as the Christian versions of the Old Covenant. The exception is that the books are arranged in a different order. The first five books, called the Pentateuch by Christians, are called the Torah or Law by Jews. The next group is called the Prophets and contains works of major and minor prophets, of which Daniel is NOT one. When Jesus referred to the Law and Prophets, these are the books He was talking about The third group of books in the Hebrew Bible is called The Writings. They contain books of history and poetry such as Kings, Chronicles, Psalms, Proverbs, Ruth and Daniel. Daniel is NOT considered to be a prophet because most of his writing was historic in nature. (Christians disagree, obviously.) None of this organization has anything to do with promoting American rapturism. The argument is simply ludicrous in the extreme and evidence of great ignorance regarding Biblical origins and organization. that's me, hollering from the choir loft....
  3. Rapture fans are not interested in what scripture teaches. My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. - Jesus as quoted by John 17:15 Jesus said there would be NO rapture. Which part of NOT is NOT being understood? The part that contradicts accepted heresy of fantastical evacuation is deliberately misrepresented so as to promote doctrines of demons. As we are now in the End Times, this sort of thing is to be expected. American Protestants are only interested in persuading themselves they've got some special revelation above and beyond what Biblical context promises or suggests.(*) Americans always believe they are exceptional in nearly every regard (The Nazis, Romans, Greeks and Napoleonic French believed the same thing too, btw.) Most of the current harvest of rubbish is based upon gentile Replacement Theology, which insinuated itself into groups of early believers who were mostly Jews. The fact a heresy is old doesn't make it true. It is anti-semitic at the root, self-aggrandizing in branch and obscenely egocentric to the point of philosophical humanism in its flower. Most of the rest of it is a doctrine of cowards who seek escape from the world's troubles, not a courageous stand in the midst of them. The ENTIRE Biblical context teaches the true student of scripture that God NEVER pulls His people out of trouble. Instead He promises to be with us in the midst of difficulty and hardship. He does this to teach us HIS faithfulness and to give us good courage. The doctrine of the rapture encourages cowardice. God HATES a coward. Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil,for You are with me;Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me. - Psalm 23:4 Are the above words those of a coward or are they one of enduring challenge and courage in the midst of fearful trouble? Nevertheless, despite the overwhelming evidence and teaching of the Bible, many will refuse to accept logical and scriptural evidence that the rapture is not supported by the Word of God. Someone once said stupidity isn't a virtue. Evidence that it is a virtue can be seen in most American churches. that's me, hollering from the choir loft... (*) Doctrine of the rapture has been rejected by most churches in the rest of the world because; - it is inconsistent with the context of scripture - it is divisive - it promotes cowardice, not faithful reliance upon the grace of God - it is anti-semitic and exclusive in that it rejects Jews, Catholics and members of the Orthodox church - which means most of the bulk of Christendom. In other words, unless you are a Protestant (American) you won't make the cut.
  4. JESUS said the day and the hour of His return weren't known because of mathematical reasons, not spiritual ones and not ones favored by ignorant Protestants of the post-modern church. At the heart of the issue is the Year of Jubilee, the calculation of which is unknown and unknowable. THIS is why Jesus said the day and hour weren't known. MOSES passed down the Law from God, which included a day of rest called shabbat - or sabbath in English. Shabbat was to be observed from sundown on Friday until sundown on Saturday. Shabbat was every 7th day. MOSES also established the Law that every seventh year was to be a shabbat/sabbath year or sabbatical year. Every seventh year in a week of years was to be a year of rest for the land. The land was not to be cultivated during the sabbatical year. Certain other requirements were to be observed as well. Seven years was defined as a week of years, therefore the seventh year in the week of years was a sabbatical year. Daniel refers to a week of years during his End Times predictions. Everything is connected to the Year of Jubilee. MOSES also established the Law that every seven sabbatical years was to be observed as the YEAR OF JUBILEE. (7 x 7 + 1 = 50) During the Year of Jubilee all debts were to be erased and all servants and slaves were to be set free. Any real estate deals were to revert to the original owner. In other words, God intended an entire reset of society was to take place every fifty years. Unfortunately Moses died before the 50th year was to be observed. Joshua, who assumed leadership, never insisted the Year of Jubilee be observed. Over time the Hebrews lost track of the date for the beginning of the calendar calculation. By the Babylonian capitivity, no trace of the origins of sabbatical year or Year of Jubilee remained. By Jesus' time it was totally unknown. IT GETS BETTER..... Calendar calculations about the End Times are generally made by ignorant Protestant Christians who forget that the Hebrew calendar is lunar, not solar. The solar calendar we currently use wasn't adopted until the 16th century. All ancient cultures used a lunar calendar. For instance, Islamic calendars continue to be lunar. Add to this the fact that Jewish calendars use BOTH lunar and solar dates and you may begin to appreciate the mathematical problem. (Ask any rabbi for a copy of the Jewish calendar he distributes to his congregation. You'll see both lunar and solar dates on it.) AND BETTER...... Not all Jewish holidays and ceremonies begin at sundown on Friday and end at sundown on Saturday. Some begin at noon. THIS IS WHY... Jesus' disciples asked Our Lord for the day and the hour, according to Jewish tradition and according to the Law of Moses. Jesus knew what the people were talking about when they asked for day and hour of His second coming. It's a matter of calculation, not hypothetical assumptions. It's about mathematics and the Law and God isn't revealing the formula. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
  5. If you are referring to John Nelson Darby, it might interest you to know the fellow; - was never a theologian, though he presented himself as one - was a consort of witches, though his relationship has never been well defined - began his diatribe by attempting to resolve the 3 issues of the millenium debated for centures, but which were mostly resolved following WWI and the events of history - was popular mostly among Protestant Americans and then only among marginal congregations (who today might be called the lunatic fringe) - made significant personal connections with D.L. Moody, noted evangelist of the day, and Cyrus Scofield who, more than anyone, promoted Darby's ideology in his chain reference Bible. - though the ideas of tribulation and rapture were floating around on the edges of legitimate theology for some time, it was Darby who organized the ideas into a more or less coherent structure - primarily known as the Father of Dispensationalism, an anti-semitic ideology that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
  6. Human thoughts and actions have multiple sources such as bodily urges, emotional passions, logical assumptions and spiritual motivations. Human thoughts and actions are indeed intricately interwoven, but references to hair or head are matters of observation by others, not something integral in the personality. Hair is traditionally representative of strength and virility in a man - femininity and fertility in a woman. Head is representative of community approval or attractiveness approved of by society. Betha's question raises interesting possibilities. King Saul was tall and attractive in his youth, but ended up being rejected by God because of disobedience. King David was likewise attractive, being described as ruddy and handsome. David pleased God and was blessed. A difference is that in the eyes of the public both were attractive men. In the eyes of God, their blessing or curse was based on obedience not appearance. Might this result in a sort of spiritual irony? that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
  7. Religious noises, but distant from the Law. Most of Christendom excels in ceremony and religious noise, but their hearts are far from God in so far as they justify their closet sin by claiming they're saved by grace. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LICENSE TO SIN. Therefore most of Christendom is based upon the twin pillars of false religion; hypocrisy and philosophy. It is not based upon Law as revealed in the Word of God. The Bible says those who follow Christ do not do so from love, but by means of guidance of the Holy Spirit, the Ruach Ha-Kodesh. Love has become a buzz word, an empty religious slogan that means nothing. It certainly has nothing to do with salvation or peace with God at all. Such things are based upon and maintained by the Law. The Law is in effect in the world and among believers as well as in the world as a whole. Unfortunately Christians are almost totally ignorant of the Law and its repercussions. They are not taught Law because such things are viewed by financially motivated leaders as contradictory to goads for an expanded membership base (and increased donations). Most leaders know not God. Neither do they promote the Law. Apart from the Law man cannot know God and be saved. Case in point is that Protestant Americans generally assume observance of the Law means they must follow the precepts of Judaism. Not so. God gave 10 commandments. Moses wrote a total of 613 (many of which are not observed by Jews today for numerous reasons). Jesus gave two - both of which have been abandoned by the church. Jews are the oracle of God, separated from the rest of humanity so as to receive the revelation of God to mankind. As such they are required to follow a certain life style including restrictions and religious observance. Paul points out that gentiles are not required to follow those same laws, but Gentiles are indeed required to follow the 10 - all of which they refuse to do anyway. To that end, those who have humbly come to the savior for forgiveness and to covenant with God are helped by the Spirit of God (Ruach Ha-Kodesh) to follow the Law - the 10 commandments and whatever else God requires of them. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
  8. Your argument is over a question of timing. Biblical prophecy is not a step by step road map to the future. It is a revelation of God's intent upon the world and the families of man for the purpose of redemption. Revelation is made so that man will know God intended certain things to come upon the earth - and why. They are fuzzy on purpose so that man may not extrapolate his own interpretations too much - and interfere with God's work which He Himself is more than able to accomplish. Those who buy into buzz words and religious slogans instead of a deep understanding of these predictions fall into error and misjudgment. Case in point is Ezekiel 37. (* dry bones and two sticks) Many now deny these twin prophecies of God's Holy Word and accept anti-semitic religious slogans instead. Jesus predicted the destruction of the temple as well as His own life. Both happened even as He said it would. Jesus did NOT say there would be TWO periods of holocaust. He said there would be ONE. It is YOU who have expressed hope for another holocaust. Shame upon you for your bloodthirsty words. Your interpretation of religious slogans, not Biblical prophecy, does that. Beware of buzz words that lead away from God's will. Beware of religious slogans that lead to hatred and demonic action instead of the love of God and God's chosen people. Gott mit uns The above is an example of a religious slogan used for political as well as religious deception. It is a German phrase which is literally translated as, "God is with us." It was popularized by Nazi propaganda even as Germans plotted the death of Jews. You may note that Americans often quote the same phrase ("God bless America") even as they invade countries that have not threatened us - even as it lies to us about its intentions and purposes. We are as misguided as the Germans before us. I am not ignoring Jesus words, but I fear you are putting words into His mouth that He did not intend. I REFUSE TO ACCEPT THE IDEA OF A SECOND HOLOCAUST. So should you - the reader. It is not not Biblically accurate (one, not two such events). The Bible does NOT predict two mass murders of Jews. Only Jew haters long for that future time. Only those who love mass murder of innocent men women and children look forward to a hideous time of more Jewish bloodshed. Only Nazis masquerading as Christians wish for such a thing to happen AGAIN. It is not evidence of Christian love. It is NOT evident of God's continuing love of Israel......or gentiles who also died in those terrible years. Conservative estimates are 60 million dead and a total wrecked civilization. YOU WISH FOR MORE? Are you so filled with hatred and love of violence that you cannot see the wickedness of this point of view? It is a doctrine of madmen filled with hatred of Jews and gentiles. Must the gospel be advanced by means of bloodshed on an industrial scale - AGAIN? May God forbid it. Think about what you are defending. Why do Christians act as though it's a crime to be born a Jew? Why do you hate Jews so much that you want them all to die before Christ returns to a devastated world? There will NOT be a second holocaust. It has already happened even as Jesus predicted - there was never so violent or destructive time in all of human history as those events of the mid-twentieth century. More Christians died for their faith in those years than any other time in history. Do you wish for Christian bloodshed as well? Are you so enraged by your slogans that you care nothing for innocent gentiles as well as Jews? The Bible says, "to the Jew first, then the gentile." (Romans 2:10) Mass murder DID happen - even according to Biblical prophecy. DO NOT hope for more, for it may be that you and your entire family be caught up in it. Do you want that to happen? I pray you do not. I pray you see the truth and live. I pray you cease wishing for Jewish bloodshed. God bless the State of Israel. May He grant peace to Jerusalem (the inheritance of peace unto Jews). that's me, hollering from the choir loft... (*) Ezekiel 37 contains twin prophecies about the modern State of Israel. First is that the dead Hebrew civilization would be resurrected even unto its original land - Eretz Israel. Second is that ALL the tribes, even the scattered northern tribes, would be GATHERED together in the land (Eretz) Israel. This GATHERING is falsely assumed to be of gentiles, when it specifically refers to Israel - called Aliyah. Aliyah is the basic principle of modern Zionism, not heretical Christian replacement theology. All Biblical prophecy centers upon the State of Israel. All other issues are peripheral in nature.
  9. My references are to the institutional pseudo-religious group called the Christian church. Specifically I point to the American church. Those who attend such organizations have given all or part of their allegiance to it and therefore are equally guilty of its sins and wickedness. They are Ichabod. (1 Samuel 4:21) Therefore the Bible warns us to come away from these groups. Hedonism means the pursuit of pleasure and earthly goods. Humanism is a philosophy that emphasizes the value and agency of human beings. Since the forth century, church doctrine has been based upon Greek philosophy in one form or another - humanistic. Not Biblical Law. Since WWII the American church has grown to embrace hedonism more and more. Therefore every ten years or so, church leaders feel it necessary to make the gospel relevant to changing society. If you are not familiar with the expression, "to make the gospel relevant", then I suggest you consult your pastor. Relevancy is necessary because post-modern church theology is based on changing philosophy, not the unchangeable Law of God. (Matthew 7:24-27) <--- read it The Law of God is now so hated by Christians it is considered heresy. At this time the church in America and abroad is almost entirely consumed with both humanism and hedonism. Your attempt to obfuscate the issue is a common error. You have bought into a religious slogan. This can be corrected if you pursue the truth. The result of error is that it clouds one's perceptions of reality. Can you see the heart of every church member? Do you know what goes on there? You may be able to do so if you are wise. The book of Proverbs and the Word of Jesus says it IS possible to know the heart of man. Jesus is quoted by Matthew 7:16 in saying that men and women are known by their fruits. READ IT again for the first time. What men and women DO is a reflection of their heart and mind and spirit. Masking the wickedness of the church by claiming divine inspiration is inaccurate and possibly demonic. How do you know the church isn't being guided by anti-Christ instead of divine providence? If its actions are a measure of its guidance then it is NOT of God and the people therein are misguided. Judge rightly. Judge by God's Law, not the philosophy of man. American churches have become humanistic. When the Law and precepts of the Bible are abandoned for philosophy and hedonism, the group is following something other than the Holy Spirit. It is Ichabod. The Holy Spirit will depart from such assemblies. Indeed, the Ruach Ha-Kodesh (Holy Spirit as it is called in Hebrew) has already departed from many main denominations. The situation was predicted for the End Times. It is called apostasy and it is pandemic today as never before in history. "I hate, I despise your feasts, and I will take no delight in your solemn assemblies." Amos 5:21 "For the time is come for judgment to begin at the house of God:" - 1 Peter 4:17a The American churches have become hedonistic. Perhaps you attend a church that's tiny and tucked away in the back woods of American civilization. If true, then I grant you may be unaware of trends now assuming tsunami proportions in our churches. Hedonistic pursuits in churches are attended with LOUD music, humanistic philosophy (*) and fragrant breakfast foods of coffee fresh breads and fruit. I don't know about you, but I attend worship services to feed my spirit not to hear a rock concert or to have a picnic during worship services. Yet such things DO HAPPEN. THE TREND, as all church leaders are aware, is to fill the worship liturgy with loud music (provide free ear protection if requested), fresh food courts, and sermons preaching happy talk or situational ethics. They do NOT preach the Law or repentance which leads unto salvation. They do NOT preach the absolute necessity of redemption in the Name of Jesus Christ. They DO preach the necessity of joining their particular brand of heresy. They DO preach lawlessness (demonic in nature) and claim the Law of Moses is abolished, which it is not. (Matthew 5:17) After preaching the abolition of the Law, they point to the Law and require 10% religious tax (tithe) be paid to the church for the rest of one's natural life. This is in total disregard to the FACT the NT does not mention a tithe requirement at all. Give or do not give. It's up to you, but it is not required. Which is it? Law or no law? Church leaders teach lawlessness with the exception of donations required. This is the face of hypocrisy. Judgment is already upon the church in that attendance in these places of spiritual desert has fallen dramatically. People ARE leaving the church in record numbers. According to PEW and Gallup polls, the level of regular church attendance defined as one visit per month has declined more than 50% in 2010 from 1948 levels. If the trend continues, according to the findings of these respected organizations the level of regular attendance will fall to 10% by 2050. These are FACTS supported by scripture and real numbers. Consider them and profit by it. Ignore it to your disservice and spiritual darkness. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. - Jesus as quoted by John 3:19 Why do people, who are otherwise pretending to be good Christian folks persist in believing buzz words and religious slogans instead of studying scripture and being aware of current trends? Because they are enamored of their closet sins and wickedness and are willing to prostitute their faith for political correctness - the approval of man instead of the approval of God. They shall have their reward, but it will not be in the celestial palaces of the Almighty. that's me, hollering from the choir loft... (*) Humanistic philosophy can be discovered in sermons that feature happy talk to fill pews and humanistic lyrics in music. I once heard a preacher admit to this even in the midst of his sermon. I have heard 'Christian' gospel groups glorify the devil and its works. I can name names and identify these groups and people, but moderators will censor me if I do. It's up to the reader to investigate on their own - if they are so inspired to seek truth. Unfortunately most are satisfied with their familiar buzz words and religious slogans and do not wish to escape the trap they believe has made them safe. God's Law may be uncomfortable, but it provides an escape from the wrath of God which is coming upon the world - even unto our churches.
  10. The holocaust was a terrible time. Europe was burned to the ground in those days. Your constant hope and cry for MORE Jewish blood to be shed shall surely fall upon your own head. Beware of the false doctrine you hold so dear. As for me and my house, we pray for the safety and life and flourishing of the State of Israel and all Jewish folk. May those who hope and pray for shedding innocent Jewish blood be carried away by the curses they enjoy to utter. Not only is it false doctrine to teach that MORE Jewish blood be shed, for every the Nazi did it in their time, but it is a stain upon the organized church to look forward to such a gastly thing. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
  11. THE LAW HAS NOT CHANGED, NEITHER HAS IT BEEN ABOLISHED. Jesus said so and I think He knew what He was talking about. God expects the same from us before Moses, after Moses and in Christ. You are making reference to the Law which you seem not to understand. The Law has not changed. God expects man to obey His law. The soul that sins shall surely die. - Ezekiel 18:20 Grace does not subvert the Law. Grace enables the Law that it may be lived in the life of the one who petitions God for forgiveness and help to do His will. God does not expect ANYONE to live a life of sin. Jesus didn't die on the cross so that sin and wickedness may thrive upon the earth. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LICENSE TO SIN. Do you want to continue to sin and discover what God's opinion of it is these days? I beg you in the name of Jesus Christ not to be so foolish. It is of interest to me that you so eagerly embrace sin. Why? that's me, hollering from the choir loft....
  12. Truth is that which is consistent with what is. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
  13. Dispensationalism was a term coined by John Nelson Darby in the mid-19th century. He used it as a device to try to explain several different variations of millenialism. The term and the teaching, instead of clearing up a centuries old debate, clouded the matter further. Darby wasn't a theologian, by the way, though he pretended to be one. His division of a dispensation of Law vs. a dispensation of Grace was based on the false notion of Replacement Theology in that the Law is no longer in effect. That much is a lie. Jesus was quoted in Matthew 5:17 saying the Law is NOT abolished. Therefore Darby's idea about dividing history into dispensations is wrong. Since the Law is still in effect there is no separation between Law and Grace. Seems to me you are unfamiliar with the very ideology you're trying to defend - dispensationalism. By the way, Darby was also a consort of witches. A man is known by the company he keeps. Is he your man? Think again. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
  14. I cannot believe how many people who consider themselves good God fearing Christians are here calling and hoping and teaching that a Second Holocaust is in the future. SIX MILLION innocent dead people isn't enough for you that you demand more Jewish blood? The posts here read like Nazi propaganda - calling for Jewish blood to be spilled so that whatever false leader they approve of will rise to the leadership of the world. ENOUGH with these calls for murder of innocent Jews. Sixty Million people died during WWII including 6 additional millions of homosexuals, mentally retarded people, political opposition, and so on for a total of 12 million people. Do you want and hope and pray for more innocent blood to be shed? This is the most disgusting example of anti-semitic bloodlust I have read in a long time - and this from people who claim to be God fearing people. You want to see millions more dead Jews? What in God's name is wrong with you? We aren't talking about some abstract interpretation of misguided predictions here. We're talking about a hope to see dead Jews. I for one believe that time is over. It was called the holocaust and it was the most dreadful period in human history. And not Jews only. The 20th century saw more people martyred for Christ than any other time in history......AND YOU WANT MORE OF IT? May God bless Israel and curse those who curse them. May it be done to you even as you have hoped it to be done to Israel. I for one hope and pray for the safety of Israel and peace for Jerusalem - from this time forward. No more mass murder of Jews. No more lying about them so as to usurp the inheritance God gave them. May God bear witness between us who hopes for the death of Jews and who does not. I DO NOT. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
  15. You are very confused and are far from Biblical teaching of Law and Grace and salvation. Grace, according to the Merriam Webster dictionary, is a state of divine sanctification enjoyed through divine assistance. If you don't know what sanctification is, please look it up. Do no rely upon mistaken ideas. The blood atonement is a requirement of the Law as payment for sin. In order to be saved, according to the Law, one must approach God with sacrifice in hand - offer the sacrifice personally - and then humbly petition God for forgiveness. The ONLY thing that has changed is the sacrifice. According to Mosaic Law the sacrifice was an animal. According to Jesus, that Law was fulfilled in His sacrifice. THEREFORE, in order to be forgiven we must individually approach God with our sacrifice (Jesus' blood) - the ONLY acceptable sacrifice and humbly ask. According to the Law, this must be done individually - no priest can do it for us and it is not automatic. The Law is the requirement and cannot itself save - according to the Law. Only God's acceptance of the sacrifice, Jesus' blood, is acceptable. St. Paul wrote that the old Law was passing away - meaning animal sacrifice. At the time Paul wrote it the animal sacrifices were still being done and the Romans had not yet sacked Jerusalem. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LICENSE TO SIN. Sins continue to be made by saved believers, but if we confess our sins Jesus is faithful and just to forgive us those sins. BUT THIS DOES NOT MEAN WE ARE FREE TO SIN. Quite the contrary, shall those who were once slave to sin and are now slave to righteousness return to the old ways? God forbid. There remains a judgment for sin, even among believers who refuse to abandon their pet closet sins. For it is time for judgment to begin with God's household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? - 1 Peter 4:17 Many believers now suffer the consequences of unrepentant sin. Many now sleep who may have lived much longer upon the earth. God will not turn a blind eye to sin - anywhere. Finally, your post is a fuzzy logical explanation of the post-modern gospel. It is devoid of understanding as to how we arrive at the blessed condition of forgiveness and sanctification. I suggest you do more detailed study of this most basic message of the gospel. that's me, hollering from the choir loft.....
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