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choir loft

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  1. First of all it should be pointed out that the above quoted post is based upon Calvinist theology with a great deal of Replacement Theology for spice. Neither of them is accurate. Neither of them is sufficient to tell us what is going on. Neither of them is adequate to explain the fulfillment of prophecy. "Jerusalem shall be trodden under foot until the times of the gentiles are fulfilled." - Jesus as quoted by Luke 21:24b On June 7, 1967, forces of the IDF entered Jerusalem. On that day the city came under Jewish authority for the first time in nearly two thousand years. The Biblical prophecy of the liberation of Jerusalem made by Jesus signifies three events. #1 - Jerusalem taken by Jews #2 - Times of the gentiles ended #3 - End of global persecution of Jews Reread Luke 21:23-24 again. It's very clear that Jesus is saying the times of Jewish persecution would continue until Jerusalem is liberated and that gentile rule of religious authority would last until then. Consider the history of the church since 1967. Whether you are aware of it or not, the church began a serious decline at that time. It continues to this day when even the Pope has admitted to entire continents becoming secularized - beginning with Europe, the traditional seat of Christendom. According to PEW and Gallup polls, regular attendance in American churches defined as one visit per month declined in 2010 to 50% of 1949 levels. If the trend continues attendance will drop to 10% by 2050. Church leaders, especially Catholic leaders, were once respected and politically influential. Today they are a joke. Catholic leadership is under fire for sexual abuses and failure of its leadership to recognize social issues of global importance. Protestant leadership is even worse. While more successful at sweeping immoral behavior under the carpet, Protestant leadership has driven the church into a situation many theologians refer to as "self-destructive" and close to "spiritual death". Without dragging in more statistical evidence to prove my point, it is widely known and acknowledged that Christendom is dwindling. Islam is enjoying a period of unprecedented growth at the expense of the church, yet it's being ignored by almost everyone in a position to address it. The days of the gentiles are over. It's beyond time to use obsolete theology of Calvin and Darby to explain what is happening to us and time to see events as they truly are. God's hand is upon Israel as it was in Biblical times. The evidence of Jewish capture of Jerusalem is clear and obvious. Something else is in the wind. The wise man will recognize it and pray seriously about it. The fool will continue to hold onto false doctrine and anti-semitic fantasies about the future. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
  2. Everyone is already cheering. They are cheering not because of torments unleashed by the witnesses, but because they're mouths will be silenced. Nobody has a problem with torments, including you. The US government is the author of endless torments for millions of people, yet no one seriously considers these torments or even whether they should be stopped. The governments of many countries are involved in similar crimes against humanity, but nobody bothers to even recognize them. It's not the torment that's the issue. The issue is what the witnesses are saying - and nobody wants to hear it. Nobody wants to hear about government corruption. We want child-like stories to give us a half baked reason to go about our lives and sleep at night. Nobody wants to hear about corporate corruption. There is no demand for the heads of corporations to suffer jail time. Nobody cares. We just want to go shopping with an easy conscience. Nobody wants to hear about personal debauchery or social wickedness in the eyes of God. We just want to think about the old bearded man far away strumming his harp on a distant cloud - if we think of Him at all. Nobody wants to consider justice because the punishment for sin falls upon us all. We just want to go on with our wicked lives without anybody telling us to stop - or warning us about the hazards of what we're doing. (*) that's me, hollering from the choir loft.... (*) I once warned a woman I knew against smoking. She'd smoked like a chimney all her life. Her daughter warned her too, but she became angry when told her health was at risk. Not long after that she died from smoking related health issues. Is smoking a sin? If it is death to sin, then maybe it ought to be considered as such.
  3. Again the Bible says the two witnesses will kill those who seek to torment them. What sort of torment can a baby provide? You are pressing an extremist interpretation of scripture here. Again, the Bible insists that the ways of man are not the ways of God. He wounds and heals as is His good pleasure. Unfortunately our present society is vehemently supportive of hedonistic self-gratification and hubris. We cannot and will not acknowledge the just ways of God - especially when these ways contradict our human passions arrogance and perversions. For this do we deserve the judgment that is coming upon us - yes and may already have arrived..... that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
  4. I've responded as a reply to you, but my words are not aimed at you per se...... Do you have a lawyer? Have you sought counsel of him in his office? When you sat there did you notice his bookcases full of books? A good lawyer consuls many books and many variations of the law so as to arrive at a positive outcome for his client. Likewise a sincere student of the Bible will not rest upon one single version alone, but consult very many. In this is the wisdom of a student. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
  5. It's not me that accuses you of a lack of understanding, but your own words that testify against you. In this too do you err. You have quoted scripture, but so have many others who do so for their own purpose - not God's. You are correct in that you've never overtly admitted hatred of Jews (until now), but your acceptance and approval of dogma that rejects their rightful place as the chosen of God proves your heart's aberrant attitude. Jews ARE an elite race - the chosen of God. Have you not read it in the Bible? This is why you ought to doubt your own conclusions. Those who join themselves to Christ become Jews in God's sight. I've already quoted scripture about it, but if you're still unclear I can suggest entire chapters for your study. Which leads me to an obvious question - if YOU do not love Jews (the people who have blessed all the families of the earth), then how do you justify denying them their rightful place in the center of God's redemptive plan for humanity? You cannot for God has not. God has never abandoned His people Israel. The dogma that declares them to be abandoned is not of God. It's called Replacement Theology. Google it. I quoted scripture about that previously, which you ignore. Instead you falsely accuse the messenger and deny the message. God indeed has punished them for their adulterous attitude, but He NEVER abandoned them. Those that hate Jews love to twist scripture and interpret limited displeasure and divine judgment to be permanent. They subvert the plan of God and usurp the rightful inheritance they've been given. If you are indeed a devoted student of scripture, as you claim, then you will not shrink from further study into this matter. On the other hand, if you are an anti-semite you will continue to vomit falsehoods and misinterpretation to support an agenda that opposes the kingdom of heaven. Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; - Genesis 6:3a The open door of salvation is not forever available. The Bible says so. The opportunity for salvation closes at the time of physical death. Therefore it is crucial for a sinner to humble himself before Christ and surrender to the Lordship of the King of the Jews. The Bible states God's promise to Abraham in Genesis 12:3, "I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you, and in you shall all the families of the earth be blessed." Your arrogant attitude opposing God's favor of Jews does not serve you well. Indeed you may find yourself opposing God. Read it again and meditate upon its meaning. Curse the Jews and you will bring God's curses upon you in kind. Bless them and you will find God's smile upon you. What then is the blessing God promised to all the families of earth but salvation in the name of Yeshuah ha-mashiach (the Hebrew name of the Son of God - He who the gentiles call Jesus the Christ). Repent of your ways, for they do not please God. How do I know this? I read the scripture and accept its words. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
  6. As I was with Moses, so I will be with you; I will never leave you nor forsake you. - Joshua 1:5 It is NOT the gospel you promote to Jews, but church membership. Church membership isn't the same thing as salvation by justification in the Name (Ha Shem) of the Messiah (Yeshuah ha Mashiach). The two are not the same thing. God has NEVER left His people Israel. He NEVER will. Surely He will punish them for their sins and disobedience, but that is a matter between God and Israel - NOT YOU. Certainly not Replacement Theology which the church uses to justify global hate and persecution of Jews - even unto their homeland given to them by God. Are you not aware of official church policy for the last 1,700 years? Accept Christ and join the congregation or die. The church has been and continues to be the greatest persecutor of Jews the world has ever seen. (Revelation 17:5) The official church threat against Jews is and always has been physical death and the threat of spiritual damnation in a fictitious dungeon of eternal torment. This is NOT love of the saints. It is anti-semitic rhetoric of the most vile sort. Be very careful of your convictions against Israel, for they do NOT serve God's purpose. (Genesis 12:3) You may find yourself fighting against God's plan of redemption and God's desire to protect and defend His people - Israel. For those who come to the Messiah in surrender to His will do NOT join a church. They become Jews. (Romans 2:29) There is no such thing as spiritual israel. Replacement Theology is a work of the devil and a tissue of lies. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
  7. It is well that you apologize for that which you believe so earnestly. If you do not the censors will come after you and silence you. As they did in Nazi Germany, so they seek to do it here today as well. The next level is to be jailed for your beliefs. Be careful how you publish the truth. It can be your undoing. The Bible says not to muzzle the ox that works for the gospel. Today the ox has its tongue cut out. Tomorrow it is put to death. America is not the country you were told it was when you were a child. America has become a land of bigots and unrestrained fools all of whom are persuaded that God's honest truth is hate language and those who promote it judged to be mentally imbalanced. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
  8. A complete and unequivocal statement of anti-semitism if ever I have read one. SEIG HEIL You have absolutely NO IDEA of what was accomplished on the cross, because you have denied He who died there and why. Your hatred of Jews is obvious. Your misunderstanding of Hebrews 1:1-3 is ludicrous because you have NO IDEA what is meant by "purification for sins". When you deny the Old Covenant by calling its prophecies "obscure" and irrelevant you logically subvert your own ability to interpret any other part of the Bible. Therefore you fall back on the only other classic position available to those who hate Israel and the Jews - illogic, innuendo, false doctrine and mindless heartless anti-semitic hatred of Jews. SEIG HEIL Consider Ezekiel 37. READ IT. Read the whole thing. There are two, count em' two MAJOR prophecies in that chapter; one is commonly referred to as the 'Dry Bones' prophecy (1-12). The second is commonly referred to as the 'Two Stick Prophecy' (15-28). The Dry Bones prophecy predicts the rebirth of the State of Israel. The Two Stick Prophecy predicts the return of ALL 12 tribes of Israel (aliyah) unto the land which God gave to them (Eretz Israel). The Two Stick prophecy proves that the gentile church has no legal moral or spiritual claim to the inheritance God gave to the Jews - ISRAEL. Any, repeat ANY, dogma that suggests otherwise (Replacement Theology) is a lie of satan. I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you and in you shall all the families of the earth be blessed. - Genesis 12:3 Even the Qur'an says Allah gave the land to the Jews and even the Qur'an prophecies that some wicked persons will attempt to take it from them. It calls such people losers - an interesting qualification for your opening post. If I read the Qur'an properly, your assertions of the veracity of Replacement Theology are those of a loser. But that's not me, it's the Qur'an. Consider the source and whether the shoe fits. And We made the people who were deemed weak to inherit the eastern lands and the western ones which We had blessed; and the good word of your Lord was fulfilled in the children of Israel because they bore up (sufferings) patiently; and We utterly destroyed what Firon (pharaoh) and his people had wrought and what they built. - Qur’an 7.137 And when Musa (Moses) said to his people: O my people! remember the favor of Allah upon you when He raised prophets among you and made you kings and gave you what He had not given to any other among the nations. O my people! enter the holy land which Allah has prescribed for you and turn not on your backs for then you will turn back losers. - Our’an 5.20-21 And We said to the Israelites after him: Dwell in the land: and when the promise of the next life shall come to pass, we will bring you both together in judgment. - Qur’an 17.104 And.surely they purposed to unsettle you from the land that they might expel you from it, and in that case they will not tarry behind you but a little. - Qur’an 17.76 (prophecy of attempts to remove Jews from Palestine) Your refusal to recognize the STATE OF ISRAEL as God's ordained and royal accomplishment for the Jews, as predicted in the Bible as well as Qur'an, is nothing less than blatant disregard for the Word of God and an open hatred of Jews (anti-semitism). It is a tissue of lies and open hostility to the truth and a race of people God has given to the world for its blessing (Yeshuah ha-Mashiach). Neither do you have a shred of understanding of what happened upon the cross (because what happened there is based upon "obscure prophecies" in your eyes, and Jewish LAW, which you confuse with obsolescence). To you its nothing more than a dead guy on a stick - a flag to wave in opposition to God's revealed Will - a banner to wave for all those who would curse Israel with the slander of illegitimacy. I advise you to refrain from future curses against Israel. It really isn't a healthy position. God is just and will not disregard hatred of the race of Abraham. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
  9. Why are you bringing this up? Do you not understand there are as many variations of dogma regarding these topics as there are people who buy into them? Nothing. Absolutely nothing will be resolved in these pages. Why? Because you've only invited opinion, not anything based on fact logic or documented scholarly work. People prefer to vent their private fantasies on these subjects and if one disagrees one is either censored or labeled a miscreant. It is better to ask how one may appropriately weigh and consider the words of scripture than to ask for opinions. For in the repetition of opinion there is no end. Neither is there satisfaction in an answer.......because no answer is sought. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
  10. Repetition of religious slogans and use of scripture as buzz words do not suffice to justify an erroneous argument. Use of YouTube and/or Facebook do not qualify as legitimate sources of information for ANY study. Yet you hold to these as though they were gospel itself - and absolutely refuse to acknowledge good advice. A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion. - Proverbs 18:2 I have asked several religious leaders about the veracity of YouTube and Facebook with regard to learning - anything. None of them agrees that these ENTERTAINMENT sources are appropriate. Apparently you are wise beyond the understanding of men who are your intellectual betters. So be it. Continue to wallow in the rubbish you love. Your resistance to good counsel and preference for darkness will continue for the rest of your life unless you repent. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
  11. "Speaking the truth to one who loves it not invites only interpretation." - George McDonald You refuse to acknowledge your own double mindedness. You accuse me of following the words of man, yet insist I listen to your favorite speaker, a man, on YouTube. You are insisting I follow you into your own form of fantasy and error and anti-Christian assumption. You do not see, or refuse to acknowledge, the hypocrisy of your own words when you accuse me of doing what you yourself are doing. You refuse any suggestion that what you believe may be the vomitus of the Vatican rather than the Will of God revealed in the Bible. "This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill - you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Remember, all I'm offering is the truth and nothing more." - Morpheus THE MATRIX I have explored the subject of the false assertions of the dogma of hell and studied the Bible for answers. I've shared these answers with you, yet you continue to resort to character assassination and irresponsible claims of your own authority. So be it. As you have judged me, so I judge you. Go out and hold to your fantasy. I do pray, however, that before life ebbs away from you completely your insanity may be cured. There is nothing so difficult as to persuade a man of the chains he bears and nothing more difficult than to help him be free of them. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
  12. The purpose of YouTube is entertainment. It is, at root - Show Bu$iness. Surely you know that those who post items on YouTube make money from the production? The effort is not altogether altruistic. Consider the source, as some wise person once said. that's me, hollering from the choir loft....
  13. Anyone who tells you that 'this' or 'that' translation is best or that only their favorite ought to be used is doing you a disservice. One needs to have several hard copies on hand as well as software that can compare multiple translations. Do you have a lawyer? Is his wall bookshelf crammed with books or does he have only one book on those shelves? Any good lawyer will have his or her own library. I wouldn't consult a lawyer with only one book and neither would you. In the same way, I recommend several different versions of the Bible for study. Bear in mind that the entire Tanakh (Old Covenant) was written in Hebrew and most of the Gospels and Epistles written in Greek it is reasonable to assume that English translations are affected by the translator's preference of phrasing. Problems can arise, such as literal translation of idioms which always leads to misunderstanding and/or outright neglect. An idiom is a phrase familiar with the original language, but may make no sense when translated into another language. For example, an English idiom is "easy as pie" or "a piece of cake". While these idioms can be literally translated to any language, they can cause confusion by the reader of the next language. The same is true for translations of the Bible into English. There's only one that I'd advise you to stay away from - The Scofield Reference Bible. The first release of the Scofield Reference (chain link) Bible was in 1909 by Oxford Press. The Scofield Bible is heavily influenced by the dogmas of 'futurism', 'dispensationalism' and 'Replacement Theology' none of which do justice to Biblical context. In fact, Replacement Theology is but anti-semitism cloaked in Christian pseudo-scholarship. Cyrus Scofield began his secular career as a lawyer, by the way. While I'm not implying that all lawyers are deceitful or that a saved lawyer is automatically correct in all his presumptions, I do insist that Scofield was no theologian. Expertise in one field does not automatically translate to expertise in another field. Yet that very assumption is made of Scofield. The purpose of individual Bible study is for one to research and form one's own opinion of the meaning of the Word of God - not to be lead from one aberration of false doctrine to another. Unfortunately this deliberate deception is exactly what the Scofield Reference Bible does for its readers. Scofield was heavily influenced by the teachings of John Nelson Darby, who was neither attorney nor theologian himself. Darby in turn was influenced by certain occult and pagan ideologies, which were integrated into his own writings. You and I disagree on a few things. That being said I am confident that you are a person who is capable of forming your own opinion on things, especially the Bible. I'd advise you to acquire several copies of the Bible and to stay away from the toxic nudgings of the Scofield Bible. that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
  14. ok.....line by line Matthew 25:46 is taken out of context. The entire passage is from verses 31 - 46, but the specific reference in 46 is linked to verse 41 where sinners are cast into fire. The fire is eternal, as is stated. But that which is cast into the fire is destroyed. In verse 46 the righteous are rewarded with eternal life while the sinners' punishment is eternal. This does not imply everlasting torment by any stretch of the imagination. Eternal torment is a form of life albeit one very unpleasant. Which is it, life or death? There is no middle ground except in popular fiction. What is being stated is destruction that cannot be revoked, without parole and minus mercy. The only ONE who is immortal is God and God gives of His life to those who accept Him. God's eternal life is not given to sinners in any form whatsoever. You cannot find a single passage in the Bible where it says God gives eternal life to sinners. The Lake of Fire is for destruction. Fire may burn longer than that which it consumes. Beware the root of error, for it begins with changing words from their common meaning to one of uncommon description. Death in the Bible means death and life means life. Destruction means deletion and obliteration, not everlasting contempt and torment. Matthew 5:29-30, again translations vary, but references to outer darkness refer to destruction. If God is light and blessings are in His light, then ostracism from God is removal of life and light and spirit. A nearly identical description can be read in Jude 1:13 where it speaks of the destiny of sinners as "...wandering stars for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever." The darkness has been reserved forever, not the punishment. Sinners are cast out of God's presence, which signifies death. In both instances, darkness is a form of fire. If God = life, then absence of God = death. The meaning of death must be perverted in order to justify eternal torment of sinners. The Biblical meaning is clear. They are destroyed. Mark 9:43-44 is a reiteration of the passage from Matthew. These passages specifically say the FIRE is unquenchable, not that the torment is everlasting. Unquenchable fire, as in gehenna the waste dump outside Jerusalem, burns continually so as to consume the waste tossed into it. The waste is burned up. THIS IS the purpose of allusions to gehenna and everlasting fire of the Lake of Fire. The fire burns, but sinners are destroyed. Did you ever witness a fire where that which is thrown into it isn't burned up and destroyed? You have not. Neither have I. The teaching is clear. The assumptions of eternal torment are based upon a perversion of the meaning of simple words; death, fire, life and eternal. 2 Peter 1:10-11 refers to eternity with reference to life. There is no way to interpret the Second Death as incorporation of life in any way that preserves the meaning of words and context of scripture. Life = reward, not punishment, not death. Which is it, life or death? One cannot die and be alive at the same time. Zombies are the creation of Hollywood and the occult, not the Bible. Finally I find it rather disconcerting that you attempt to call me out by asking if I believed Jesus or the teachings of man AFTER YOU REFERENCE A YOUTUBE SERMON BY A MAN. Your logic is flawed. May I ask the same question of you? You have testified of your own preference to believe a MAN on YouTube rather than Jesus by referring to some person on YouTube. You are so deep into the false concept of hell you cannot even recognize your own duplicitous statements and convoluted logic. Step back from presumption and have another look at the Bible. The template for Final Judgment can be viewed in Genesis 19, not on YouTube. The destruction of the five cities of Sodom was by fire - whole and complete. Not even ashes remained. In Luke 16 we read Jesus' own admonition that we MUST use the Tanakh (Law & Prophets) to reference the truth of the afterlife, not vagaries of the imagination (or in the cited case a reference to Purgatory taught in the inter-testimental work known to gentiles as the Apocrypha). Purgatory is not recognized canon by either Jews or Protestants, but IS recognized by the Catholic church. Jesus was a Karaite Jew and refused to recognize Talmud, inter-testimental writings or popular fiction. The point at the end of Luke 16 is to reference the Tanakh to obtain truth, not popular fiction or social media. This is a hard concept for many to accept because most folks are dominated by fantasies rather than scriptural references - and are too lazy to study for themselves, choosing instead to get their teaching from the internet and certifying it is gospel when it is decidedly NOT. that's me, hollering from the choir loft.... PS If I seem to have called you out rather briskly, I apologize for the tone. The subject is one that has been corrupted by the Vatican and adopted by Protestant churches - to their detriment. The dogma of hell is not true. The Bible describes God as a God of love and justice. God kills. God does not torture. The Mother of Harlots still rides the beast of religious falsehood and abuse of faith. Her children are many and her mouth continues to vomit blasphemies to this day. I encourage you to examine the doctrine of Final Judgment more fully....and please stay away from YouTube when you do it. I perceive you are better than that.
  15. This is getting off topic - veneration of the saints. I can engage your hellish interpretations at length in an appropriate setting if you wish. Suffice it to say that the overwhelming number of interpretations are based upon bad translations - translations which are infected with pagan ideology. Jesus is not the commandant of a demonic concentration camp in the bowels of the earth. The Bible nowhere condones such an interpretation. If you believe this abomination, you are not familiar with the Jesus of the Bible. Do you really believe Jesus is a sadistic monster who tortures people for pleasure? I really don't think you do. I do believe you are misinformed about the subject. I do not use YouTube as a reference for interpretations of the Bible. Neither should you. We may disagree at points, but I perceive you sincerely seek God on such things. You will not find the truth on YouTube I promise. It isn't a scholarly approach to learn about the false doctrine of hell or for veneration of the saints. I submit YouTube isn't even sufficient to answer questions about who orchestrated the conspiracy to assassinate John F. Kennedy (1) or our government's actions on 911 either (2), though there is plenty of stuff there about those issues. YouTube isn't about truth. It's about entertainment. That's it and that's all. The truth you seek will not be found there. that's me, hollering from the choir loft... (1) Allen Dulles (2) VP Dick Cheney
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