The Sower - misunderstood

[Waggles]

6 hours ago, AdHoc said:

You will notice that I built a case, with scriptures, that shows the meaning of the parable of the sower.

Well you may have done in your eyes, but you are wrong.

The parable is about how people receive (or not) the word of God - the gospel of salvation.

When disciples go out and preach the full gospel of salvation - ye must be born from above by water baptism and baptism of the Holy Spirit and these signs shall follow those who believe - quite often the words of life do indeed fall on stony ground and "when they should hear, straightway comes Satan, and takes away the word sown in them." I have seen this happen many times right before my eyes when I have been witnessing to people.

Mark 4:5  And other fell on the rocky ground, and where it had not much earth; and straightway it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth: 6  and when the sun was risen, it was scorched; and because it had no root, withered away. - Oh how true this is. So many converts who have received the indwelling Holy Spirit and speak in tongues do give up and return back into the world, or worse go back into worldly churches. Usually over being "offended" by other saints or offended in obeying the commandments of God to walk worthy.

Mark 4:18  And others are they sown among the thorns; these are they that have heard the word, 
19  and the cares of the age, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.  - Here is another great truth about the cost of discipleship revealed by our Lord Jesus on how disciples can be overcome by the world and its distractions.

Mark 4:8  And others fell into the good ground, and yielded fruit growing up and increasing; and brought forth [unto] thirty and [in] sixty and [in] hundred. - Sadly only a few (one in four) bear good fruit [the fruit of the Spirit and being fruitful unto the gospel].

Matthew 7:13  Enter ye by the narrow gate: for wide and spacious is the way that leads unto the destruction, and many are they that enter thereby. 
14  Because narrow the gate, and straitened the way that leads unto the life, and few are they that find it. 

[AdHoc]

4 hours ago, Waggles said:

Well you may have done in your eyes, but you are wrong.

The parable is about how people receive (or not) the word of God - the gospel of salvation.

When disciples go out and preach the full gospel of salvation - ye must be born from above by water baptism and baptism of the Holy Spirit and these signs shall follow those who believe - quite often the words of life do indeed fall on stony ground and "when they should hear, straightway comes Satan, and takes away the word sown in them." I have seen this happen many times right before my eyes when I have been witnessing to people.

Mark 4:5  And other fell on the rocky ground, and where it had not much earth; and straightway it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth: 6  and when the sun was risen, it was scorched; and because it had no root, withered away. - Oh how true this is. So many converts who have received the indwelling Holy Spirit and speak in tongues do give up and return back into the world, or worse go back into worldly churches. Usually over being "offended" by other saints or offended in obeying the commandments of God to walk worthy.

Mark 4:18  And others are they sown among the thorns; these are they that have heard the word, 
19  and the cares of the age, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.  - Here is another great truth about the cost of discipleship revealed by our Lord Jesus on how disciples can be overcome by the world and its distractions.

Mark 4:8  And others fell into the good ground, and yielded fruit growing up and increasing; and brought forth [unto] thirty and [in] sixty and [in] hundred. - Sadly only a few (one in four) bear good fruit [the fruit of the Spirit and being fruitful unto the gospel].

Matthew 7:13  Enter ye by the narrow gate: for wide and spacious is the way that leads unto the destruction, and many are they that enter thereby. 
14  Because narrow the gate, and straitened the way that leads unto the life, and few are they that find it. 

Thank you for your reply. I've read and noted it. God bless.

[Dan Knight]

5 hours ago, Waggles said:

Well you may have done in your eyes, but you are wrong.

The parable is about how people receive (or not) the word of God - the gospel of salvation.

When disciples go out and preach the full gospel of salvation - ye must be born from above by water baptism and baptism of the Holy Spirit and these signs shall follow those who believe - quite often the words of life do indeed fall on stony ground and "when they should hear, straightway comes Satan, and takes away the word sown in them." I have seen this happen many times right before my eyes when I have been witnessing to people.

Mark 4:5  And other fell on the rocky ground, and where it had not much earth; and straightway it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth: 6  and when the sun was risen, it was scorched; and because it had no root, withered away. - Oh how true this is. So many converts who have received the indwelling Holy Spirit and speak in tongues do give up and return back into the world, or worse go back into worldly churches. Usually over being "offended" by other saints or offended in obeying the commandments of God to walk worthy.

Mark 4:18  And others are they sown among the thorns; these are they that have heard the word, 
19  and the cares of the age, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.  - Here is another great truth about the cost of discipleship revealed by our Lord Jesus on how disciples can be overcome by the world and its distractions.

Mark 4:8  And others fell into the good ground, and yielded fruit growing up and increasing; and brought forth [unto] thirty and [in] sixty and [in] hundred. - Sadly only a few (one in four) bear good fruit [the fruit of the Spirit and being fruitful unto the gospel].

Matthew 7:13  Enter ye by the narrow gate: for wide and spacious is the way that leads unto the destruction, and many are they that enter thereby. 
14  Because narrow the gate, and straitened the way that leads unto the life, and few are they that find it. 

James 2:17, 18... faith by itself, if it does not result in action, is dead. 18But someone will say, “You have faith and I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 

[AdHoc]

@Waggles, @Dan Knight, Thank you for joining in the discussion. I would like to propose a further help to understanding the matter. In Genesis 1:26-28 God laid forth why He made man. Man was to be in the likeness and image of God. He was to eat from the Tree of Life and have the life and nature of God. He was to rule like God would. Life was for the man to be in the image of God and this would enable him to rule like God. Man sinned and ruled badly. Salvation is there to

1. Free a man from the debt of sin and judgment
2. To experience a new and heavenly birth to give the man God's life
3. To reconcile two enemies. The man offended God and was at "enmity" with God
4. To transform a man's fallen character to a character like God
5. To overcome physical death by resurrection

In point #4 the man must cooperate with God by denying himself and carrying his cross. But in ALL these four points of salvation, a man gets them for free. Man's FULL salvation is a GIFT. But this salvation if FOR SOMETHING. It is so that the saved one can become a co-king of the EARTH with Christ. This is the KINGDOM. The Kingdom is that sphere of RULE where the King is God and His WILL is done. According to the prophets Daniel, God will allow the Gentiles to rule up to a certain time. Then He will change government on earth to His "people" (Dan.2:44). In the mean time God is preparing those who will rule with Christ - the Overcomers of the Church (Rev.2.27). And when He is finished raising up these He will restore Israel (Act.15:14-16).

When the Gentiles are subdued, the Overcomers of the Church have proven themselves, and Israel is restored with Jesus living in Jerusalem, the KINGDOM WILL HAVE COME TO EARTH. The parables of Matthew 13 show the DEVELOPMENT of this Kingdom in this age BEFORE it is manifested in the next age. In this age the Kingdom is hidden. It is in MYSTERY. It will develop a certain way. This is the content of Matthew 13. The Book of Matthew ASSUMES the rebirth. It's them is Jesus - Son of Abraham (inheritor of the whole world - Rom.4:13), and Jesus - Son of David (King of Israel) (Matt.1:1). For this Kingdom, God needs reliable CO-kings with Jesus. The book of Matthew shows how to become a co-king FOR THE KINGDOM ON EARTH.

[Dan Knight]

32 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

@Waggles, @Dan Knight, Thank you for joining in the discussion. I would like to propose a further help to understanding the matter. In Genesis 1:26-28 God laid forth why He made man. Man was to be in the likeness and image of God. He was to eat from the Tree of Life and have the life and nature of God. He was to rule like God would. Life was for the man to be in the image of God and this would enable him to rule like God. Man sinned and ruled badly. Salvation is there to

1. Free a man from the debt of sin and judgment
2. To experience a new and heavenly birth to give the man God's life
3. To reconcile two enemies. The man offended God and was at "enmity" with God
4. To transform a man's fallen character to a character like God
5. To overcome physical death by resurrection

In point #4 the man must cooperate with God by denying himself and carrying his cross. But in ALL these four points of salvation, a man gets them for free. Man's FULL salvation is a GIFT. But this salvation if FOR SOMETHING. It is so that the saved one can become a co-king of the EARTH with Christ. This is the KINGDOM. The Kingdom is that sphere of RULE where the King is God and His WILL is done. According to the prophets Daniel, God will allow the Gentiles to rule up to a certain time. Then He will change government on earth to His "people" (Dan.2:44). In the mean time God is preparing those who will rule with Christ - the Overcomers of the Church (Rev.2.27). And when He is finished raising up these He will restore Israel (Act.15:14-16).

When the Gentiles are subdued, the Overcomers of the Church have proven themselves, and Israel is restored with Jesus living in Jerusalem, the KINGDOM WILL HAVE COME TO EARTH. The parables of Matthew 13 show the DEVELOPMENT of this Kingdom in this age BEFORE it is manifested in the next age. In this age the Kingdom is hidden. It is in MYSTERY. It will develop a certain way. This is the content of Matthew 13. The Book of Matthew ASSUMES the rebirth. It's them is Jesus - Son of Abraham (inheritor of the whole world - Rom.4:13), and Jesus - Son of David (King of Israel) (Matt.1:1). For this Kingdom, God needs reliable CO-kings with Jesus. The book of Matthew shows how to become a co-king FOR THE KINGDOM ON EARTH.

I have long believed that the Kingdom of God would be established on earth. Since the mid seventies. Rev 21:2 among other verses. 

2 things that must be 'reconciled ' between God and man have orgins in the Garden.

1. The 'original' sin, or perhaps I should say the true original sin by a human being, is not the eating of the fruit. That was the physical manifestation.  It was believing that God was a liar. 

   And what was that lie? Gen 3:4- "...you shall Not surely die. " Adam and Eve knew what surely die meant. They had believed it up to the point of the serpent lieing to them, evidenced by the fact that they had not eaten of that  tree up to that point. 

  Many Human beings since have held on to that exact same lie. To understand what God means about 'surely die ' look at Gen 3:22.

Question: can you sneak up on God and take something from Him that He said you couldn't have? Answer found in the reason they were kicked out of the Garden of Eden.  

22

And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." 

 

 This certainly means human beings were not created eternal beings, BUT what are we taught from the pulpits today? That when we depart this existence we shall either go to heaven and live forever or to hell and live forever,  BUT YOU SHALL NOT SURELY DIE. 

2. When Adam was confronted about eating of the fruit,  God's question required a  simple yes or no response. But He chose instead to soften his crime by accusing others. Gen 3:11- 2nd of which was Eve, which incidentally is the first time in recorded history that a man threw his wife under the bus.  Primarily, though, he blamed God, saying that it was the fault of, "..the woman You gave me..".

Why that is so very important for human beings to understand can be found at the event at Calvary , specifically in the words of the thief on the cross. 

God gave the woman to the man as a help. To be someone positively helpful and usefull to him. What Adam was saying is that she wasn't as God had designed her to be, she was flawed. God made her for one thing, she was another thing. Flawed design, flawed Designer. 

So what does this have to do with this topic? Our beliefs are based on a foundation of what we determine, accept, to be truth. If that truth is flawed, it is doomed to fail. 

Matt 7: 26, 27-But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. ²⁷ The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

 What is required of each of us as individuals is shown to us by the thief on the cross. A type of...

The penalty of is to surely die. The thief  on the cross was there for his crime,  his sin.  The one thief said if Jesus was God,  to get them out of this mess, which is saying that if He doesn't the He is flawed in His claims. This is the Era before Jesus.

The second thief stated the truth.  The same truth about God that has ALWAYS been. He said, Luke 23:41 ".. this Man has done nothing wrong."

God gave him that knowledge at that point so that we could witness repentance in motion. 

In keeping with this topic, what God put in his heart, he had to make a decision and take action on. He couldn't just think it to God,  he had to put it into works. And what did this get him? He asked Jesus specifically to remember him when he came into his Kingdom. :42

And Jesus response was you got it! See you in Paradise!

 

[DPMartin]

20 hours ago, AdHoc said:

1  The same day went Jesus out of the house, and sat by the sea side. 2 And great multitudes were gathered together unto him, so that he went into a ship, and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore. 3 And he spake many things unto them in parables,
…
18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. 19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. 20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. 22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. 23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

 Matthew 13 presents us with seven difficult parables. The difficulty comes from centuries of wrong premise. The Roman Church set us off on the wrong direction and we have never called them into question. Let us do it now.

There are a number of basic facts that need to be set forth to make these parables understandable.

1.  The first and most important is to define the “Kingdom of Heaven”. It is NOT the “Kingdom IN Heaven”. From Genesis 1:26-28 onward through Daniel Chapter 2, through Revelation 22:5. God has never wavered in His original plan to have mankind subdue and rule this earth. The birth needed for entering this Kingdom is from heaven (Jn.3:3-5), the ultimate King is from heaven, the nature of this King and His co-kings is heavenly, the God Who is over all and authenticates this Kingdom is heavenly and His heavenly rules are to be applied on earth - making this Kingdom heavenly in NATURE but not geographical position. The parable is about this kingdom - NOT SALVATION.

2.  The second fact that plays a crucial role is that the Lord spoke in parables which were not understandable to anyone but His disciples. In Matthew 12 Israel’s rejection of Messiah was complete as they attributed to Him the works of Beelzebub - the sin unforgivable in this age and the next. The audience was mixed - but our Lord Jesus only spoke to His disciples. The rest could not understand.

3.  The grammar of the first sentence of the explanation in verse 19 unequivocally sets the same conditions for the first group as for the rest. They “heard” the word of the Kingdom and it “was sown in their hearts”. The problem with the first group was NOT UNBELIEF. It was that they did not understand it! If a man thinks that it is the “Kingdom IN Heaven” he has NOT UNDERSTOOD the parable, for it pertains to the EARTH. If the man who has had the word of the Kingdom “sown in his heart” thinks that his destiny is heaven, he has NOT UNDERSTOOD the Kingdom - for our Lord prays; “Thy Kingdom COME, thy will be done ON EARTH … .” In verse 23 the fruitful ones “UNDERSTOOD”.

And if a man who has had the word of the Kingdom sown in his heart and thinks that it is for free, he has NOT UNDERSTOOD the Kingdom because in ALL the parables of the Kingdom it is to be ATTAINED to BY EFFORT:

1. In Matthew 5:20 it is only to be had if YOUR righteousness is greater that that of the Pharisees
2. In Mathew 7:21 it is only to be had if you are OBEDIENT
3. In Matthew 16:24-28 it is only to be had after a judgment of your WORKS (v.27) In Matthew 19 the rich man must keep God’s Laws and still sell all he has - WORKS
4. In Matthew 22 the man had accepted the invitation but his “garment” (his works - Rev.19:7-8) were lacking
5. In Matthew 25 the foolish Virgins had not BOUGHT extra oil
6. In Matthew 25 the servant of the Lord had not TRADED with his talent In 1st Corinthians 6:10-11, Galatians 5:5 and Ephesians 5:21 men are ejected from the kingdom for their WORKS
7. In John 3:3 rebirth only allows you to SEE the Kingdom. To ENTER you must be immersed in water (3:5). For his WORKS Moses may only SEE the Good Land but not ENTER.

Have you UNDERSTOOD that the Sower in Matthew 13 speaks of the Kingdom and not salvation, and that the Kingdom is obtained BY WORKS?

works are a result of, not the way to the Kingdom of Heaven, listen to what Jesus says here:

Luk 17:20  And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 
Luk 17:21  Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.  

also:

Joh_3:13  And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

note that Jesus while in the earth (in the flesh which is made of earth) states He is in Heaven.

 

Jesus says God is a Spirit and that Spirit in the born again case is indwelling therefore since God is in heaven and yet His Presence is within a born again.................................

 

but without the Lord there is no works that are acceptable:

 

Co 3:11  For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 
1Co 3:12  Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 
1Co 3:13  Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 
1Co 3:14  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 
1Co 3:15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 
1Co 3:16  Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 

Edited September 7, 2022 by DPMartin

[Dan Knight]

11 hours ago, DPMartin said:

works are a result of, not the way to the Kingdom of Heaven, listen to what Jesus says here:

Luk 17:20  And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 
Luk 17:21  Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.  

also:

Joh_3:13  And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

note that Jesus while in the earth (in the flesh which is made of earth) states He is in Heaven.

 

Jesus says God is a Spirit and that Spirit in the born again case is indwelling therefore since God is in heaven and yet His Presence is within a born again.................................

 

but without the Lord there is no works that are acceptable:

 

Co 3:11  For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 
1Co 3:12  Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 
1Co 3:13  Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 
1Co 3:14  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 
1Co 3:15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 
1Co 3:16  Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 

Jesus is the Way.

When He started His ministry He says that the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand. He was headed to the Kingdom of Heaven, and worked Hus way there, giving us the example to follow.  The Kingdom of Heaven is like..He'd say. Showing us what to do. But obviously we couldn't do it from prison,  so He paid the price of relief for us. So we can begin our journey to the Kingdom of Heaven. 

The price for the penalty of sin is impossible for us to pay, and then be free because it is to surely die. To be un-existed. No coming back from that. But Jesus could because He was innocent and fully trusted the Father. He died for us while we were yet still sinners.  That we could do, we could die for our sins. What we could not do is come back. Jesus sacrifice is by grace, all gift. The gift that brings us back to life. 

In the prison system folk on death row are referred as dead men walking. Because they inescapably await the death penalty to be executed. Jesus  said let the dead bury their own. Same thing. 

In our prison system, the condemned can be pardoned and the penalty excused. Not so with God's law concerning sin. The penalty of death will be exacted. And it was. God died for us, in our stead.

Some folks have a hard time with that. They say the 2nd death is being separated from God.  And when Jesus said Father why have you forsaken me, that can be seen as a separation from God.  But if the penalty of sin is separation fr6om God, and that is what happened on the cross, then why did Jesus have to continue on, to give up the ghost and be buried in the tomb? If the penalty was met at the forsaken stage, why go on. Unnecessarily so? 

No, the penalty for sin is the 2nd death.  To be destroyed.  To be un-existed.  Folks ask, are you saying God can die, my response is are you saying He didn't? 1cor 11:23-27, 1peter 1:18-19, rom 5:6-10, and so many more. We are saved by the blood of God,  redeemed by the blood of God,  God died for us. We were not saved by the rejection of Jesus Christ. 

Edited September 8, 2022 by Dan Knight

[AdHoc]

5 hours ago, Dan Knight said:

I have long believed that the Kingdom of God would be established on earth. Since the mid seventies. Rev 21:2 among other verses. 

2 things that must be 'reconciled ' between God and man have orgins in the Garden.

1. The 'original' sin, or perhaps I should say the true original sin by a human being, is not the eating of the fruit. That was the physical manifestation.  It was believing that God was a liar. 

   And what was that lie? Gen 3:4- "...you shall Not surely die. " Adam and Eve knew what surely die meant. They had believed it up to the point of the serpent lieing to them, evidenced by the fact that they had not eaten of that  tree up to that point. 

  Many Human beings since have held on to that exact same lie. To understand what God means about 'surely die ' look at Gen 3:22.

Question: can you sneak up on God and take something from Him that He said you couldn't have? Answer found in the reason they were kicked out of the Garden of Eden.  

22

And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." 

 

 This certainly means human beings were not created eternal beings, BUT what are we taught from the pulpits today? That when we depart this existence we shall either go to heaven and live forever or to hell and live forever,  BUT YOU SHALL NOT SURELY DIE. 

2. When Adam was confronted about eating of the fruit,  God's question required a  simple yes or no response. But He chose instead to soften his crime by accusing others. Gen 3:11- 2nd of which was Eve, which incidentally is the first time in recorded history that a man threw his wife under the bus.  Primarily, though, he blamed God, saying that it was the fault of, "..the woman You gave me..".

Why that is so very important for human beings to understand can be found at the event at Calvary , specifically in the words of the thief on the cross. 

God gave the woman to the man as a help. To be someone positively helpful and usefull to him. What Adam was saying is that she wasn't as God had designed her to be, she was flawed. God made her for one thing, she was another thing. Flawed design, flawed Designer. 

So what does this have to do with this topic? Our beliefs are based on a foundation of what we determine, accept, to be truth. If that truth is flawed, it is doomed to fail. 

Matt 7: 26, 27-But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. ²⁷ The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

 What is required of each of us as individuals is shown to us by the thief on the cross. A type of...

The penalty of is to surely die. The thief  on the cross was there for his crime,  his sin.  The one thief said if Jesus was God,  to get them out of this mess, which is saying that if He doesn't the He is flawed in His claims. This is the Era before Jesus.

The second thief stated the truth.  The same truth about God that has ALWAYS been. He said, Luke 23:41 ".. this Man has done nothing wrong."

God gave him that knowledge at that point so that we could witness repentance in motion. 

In keeping with this topic, what God put in his heart, he had to make a decision and take action on. He couldn't just think it to God,  he had to put it into works. And what did this get him? He asked Jesus specifically to remember him when he came into his Kingdom. :42

And Jesus response was you got it! See you in Paradise!

 

You have a good perception of things. I've hardly seen Christian teachers address these points.

The matter of Eve, if I judge correctly, is answered in the five main offerings of Leviticus. Their sequence is very telling. If we were writing about the Offerings we would reverse the order to be according to our experience.
5. The TRESPASS Offering for our many sins that are caused by having having Adam's sin-nature
4. The SIN (singular) Offering for having the Adamic nature
3. The PEACE Offering because our sin and sins has caused enmity with God
2. The MEAL Offering because our humanity is so fallen, but Jesus' is perfect
1. The BURNT Offering because Jesus was fully for the Father but we are not.

You will notice that until the law was given, the only Offering was the BURNT Offering. And it required an Altar. The reason is that man's biggest failure is that he is not fully for the Father. Eve, when she perceived the lust of the eye (good to look upon), the lust of the flesh (good to eat) and the pride of life (good to make one wise), she decided in favor of herself. What was needed was an ALTAR where she could put her desires to death. The Burnt Offering is fully burned. No part remains for the priest. So was Christ. He was fully given for the Father (Heb.10:7). Eve was not fallen when she made her decision. But she decided for herself.

Is it not fitting that the main attribute for getting into the Kingdom is OBEDIENCE (Mat.7:21). And is it not fitting that our part in ENTERING the Kingdom is to deny the soul and apply the cross to our will - the altar (Matt.16:24-28)

[AdHoc]

5 hours ago, DPMartin said:

works are a result of, not the way to the Kingdom of Heaven, listen to what Jesus says here:

Luk 17:20  And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 
Luk 17:21  Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.  

also:

Joh_3:13  And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

note that Jesus while in the earth (in the flesh which is made of earth) states He is in Heaven.

 

Jesus says God is a Spirit and that Spirit in the born again case is indwelling therefore since God is in heaven and yet His Presence is within a born again.................................

 

but without the Lord there is no works that are acceptable:

 

Co 3:11  For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 
1Co 3:12  Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 
1Co 3:13  Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 
1Co 3:14  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 
1Co 3:15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 
1Co 3:16  Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 

You have alluded to an important point. Where and when is the Kingdom?

To answer that we must first define a kingdom. A KINGDOM is a sphere or area where a certain king lives and applies his authority.

1. While Jesus, the King, lived on earth the King was present but He did not enforce His rule on men. He enforced it on the principalities. So His Kingdom was "near" or "at hand".
2. When our Lord Jesus was present and His Kingdom was at hand, it did not come because the HEIRS (Israel) refused it
3. When our Lord Jesus went to heaven He was not present on earth as King so the Kingdom must wait for a future day
4. But our Lord is King and lives in each Christian, so He IS PRESENT and exercises His rule in the Church. So we have been translated into His Kingdom and John could confirm this (Col.1:13, Rev.1:9)

Your mention of Luke 17:21 falls under point #1. The word "within" is "entos" in the Greek. It can also mean "among you". Now, since the Pharisees did not believe and confess that Jesus was Lord, the Lord did not dwell "within" them. But Jesus the King, Who was exercising His authority over the principalities, was "AMONG" them. "Within" is not wrong but it does not mean inside the Pharisees. It means "in the midst of you." (Darby Translation).

The reason that a man ENTERS he Kingdom by WORKS is that it is a JOB. To be forgiven of one's sins and have eternal life is a CONDITION that no man can attain to. So our Lord Jesus does the WORKS and we receives them fro free by FAITH. But to be a co-king in the Kingdom is a DUTY, OCCUPATION or JOB DESIGNATION. It will be the Christian's POSITION  and WORK in the Millennium. So he has to show, over a long period of time, his willingness to DO GOD'S WORK. You will notice that in the parable of the Talents in Matthew 25 our Lord called the man "faithful". "Faithful" means to carry out a given task. But in Luke and the parable of the Pounds (in Chapter 19) the Lord judged "diligence". "Diligence" is how hard a man worked at his given task. So the man with ten pounds is commended. But the man with five is not commended.

Our WORKS during this age decide our POSITION in the next age. FAITH in this age decides our CONDITION now and later.

[Dan Knight]

34 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

You have alluded to an important point. Where and when is the Kingdom?

To answer that we must first define a kingdom. A KINGDOM is a sphere or area where a certain king lives and applies his authority.

1. While Jesus, the King, lived on earth the King was present but He did not enforce His rule on men. He enforced it on the principalities. So His Kingdom was "near" or "at hand".
2. When our Lord Jesus was present and His Kingdom was at hand, it did not come because the HEIRS (Israel) refused it
3. When our Lord Jesus went to heaven He was not present on earth as King so the Kingdom must wait for a future day
4. But our Lord is King and lives in each Christian, so He IS PRESENT and exercises His rule in the Church. So we have been translated into His Kingdom and John could confirm this (Col.1:13, Rev.1:9)

Your mention of Luke 17:21 falls under point #1. The word "within" is "entos" in the Greek. It can also mean "among you". Now, since the Pharisees did not believe and confess that Jesus was Lord, the Lord did not dwell "within" them. But Jesus the King, Who was exercising His authority over the principalities, was "AMONG" them. "Within" is not wrong but it does not mean inside the Pharisees. It means "in the midst of you." (Darby Translation).

The reason that a man ENTERS he Kingdom by WORKS is that it is a JOB. To be forgiven of one's sins and have eternal life is a CONDITION that no man can attain to. So our Lord Jesus does the WORKS and we receives them fro free by FAITH. But to be a co-king in the Kingdom is a DUTY, OCCUPATION or JOB DESIGNATION. It will be the Christian's POSITION  and WORK in the Millennium. So he has to show, over a long period of time, his willingness to DO GOD'S WORK. You will notice that in the parable of the Talents in Matthew 25 our Lord called the man "faithful". "Faithful" means to carry out a given task. But in Luke and the parable of the Pounds (in Chapter 19) the Lord judged "diligence". "Diligence" is how hard a man worked at his given task. So the man with ten pounds is commended. But the man with five is not commended.

Our WORKS during this age decide our POSITION in the next age. FAITH in this age decides our CONDITION now and later.

"Enter the Kingdom by works because it is a job". Yes. 

  I remember some years ago I was visiting a church and their evangelist said in a thundering voice," When Jesus returns He better find you at the foot of the cross"!  Why, I said.  He ain't there, and don't bother looking in that tomb, cause He ain't there either!

  Sometimes we'll intentioned folk get stuck on certain issues. 'Grace, and nothing we can do' does not apply to everything.  Works gets a bum rap. Many scriptures proclaim that. One of my favorite is .." and I will show you my faith by works."

 Again, " if you had faith...you would say to this mountain..". I hear so much that we should pray.asking God to.move the mountains in our lived. But He says " you do it."