The Sower - misunderstood

[Marilyn C]

18 hours ago, AdHoc said:

I appreciate that you have set your heart and mind on being in heaven. 95% of the rest of Christianity have too. But for such a doctrine, you should have a mound of evidence, AND there should not be anything to indicate otherwise. Yet the whole Bible is full of God's recovery of man FOR RULING from the earth. And in plain and unambiguous language, in Matthew 21:43 Israel is BARRED from ruing. Another people are to be raised up for this purpose. I propose, in the friendliest way possible that the scriptures you produced above do not say that Christians will be transported to heaven and reign from there. 

1

Hi Ad Hoc,

I have my heart set on WHERE the Lord Jesus Christ has told us we will be!

Now in Matt. 21: 43 as you said, Jesus says that `the kingdom, (rule) of God will be taken from you..`  And in the context the `YOU` are the rulers of that day in Israel, the chief priests and scribes. (Matt. 21: 23)  

So Ad Hoc, are you telling me that the Lord Jesus Christ is not and will not be where the Father has set Him? -

 `at His right hand in the heavenly places, FAR ABOVE all principality and powers and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age BUT ALSO IN THAT WHICH IS TO COME.

And He has put ALL THINGS UNDER HIS FEET, and gave Him to be Head of the church which is His Body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.` (Eph. 1: 20 - 22)  

 

Are you telling me and those reading that the Lord Jesus Christ will be

-         Below where Lucifer had his throne?

-         Below where the angels are?

-         Below where Satan rules from even now?

-         Below on the earth His FOOTSTOOL?

 

` Heaven is MY THRONE, and the earth is MY FOOTSTOOL.`(Isa. 66: 1)

 

`But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain you?` (1 Kings 8: 27)

 

Marilyn.

-          

 

[AdHoc]

11 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Quote AdHoc

I appreciate that you have set your heart and mind on being in heaven. 95% of the rest of Christianity have too. But for such a doctrine, you should have a mound of evidence, AND there should not be anything to indicate otherwise. Yet the whole Bible is full of God's recovery of man FOR RULING from the earth. And in plain and unambiguous language, in Matthew 21:43 Israel is BARRED from ruing. Another people are to be raised up for this purpose. I propose, in the friendliest way possible that the scriptures you produced above do not say that Christians will be transported to heaven and reign from there. 

 

11 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Ad Hoc,

I have my heart set on WHERE the Lord Jesus Christ has told us we will be!

Now in Matt. 21: 43 as you said, Jesus says that `the kingdom, (rule) of God will be taken from you..`  And in the context the `YOU` are the rulers of that day in Israel, the chief priests and scribes. (Matt. 21: 23)  

So Ad Hoc, are you telling me that the Lord Jesus Christ is not and will not be where the Father has set Him? -

 `at His right hand in the heavenly places, FAR ABOVE all principality and powers and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age BUT ALSO IN THAT WHICH IS TO COME.

And He has put ALL THINGS UNDER HIS FEET, and gave Him to be Head of the church which is His Body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.` (Eph. 1: 20 - 22)  

 

Are you telling me and those reading that the Lord Jesus Christ will be

-         Below where Lucifer had his throne?

-         Below where the angels are?

-         Below where Satan rules from even now?

-         Below on the earth His FOOTSTOOL?

 

` Heaven is MY THRONE, and the earth is MY FOOTSTOOL.`(Isa. 66: 1)

 

`But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain you?` (1 Kings 8: 27)

 

Marilyn.

My dear sister,

It is our freedom and right to answer another how we like, and I am the first to uphold that right. But if we are intent in getting to the truth of a matter we are constrained to answer what is written. I have posted my answer and your answer together so that you, and the readers you mentioned, may see if you addressed my points.
1. Where is the "mound of evidence" for men going to heaven, staying there and ruling from there?

2. Why did you avoid the many and plain scriptures that give the earth to men?

3. Why have you singled out the Pharisees as those who have the Kingdom of God ripped from them when the context was "The Vine of Israel" and the new recipients an "ethnos" in the Greek. Strong gives the meaning as "a people, company or nation of the same genus". That is, this second people CANNOT be Israelites. This is a people of another "genus". This is born out in that in the Millennium Israel is ruled by Christ, David (a Christian) and the Twelve Apostles (Christians). The "genus" of the new royal nation is the Holy Spirit (Jn.3:3), not Jacob.

Instead, you have taken verses outside of the context and wrested them together to form a picture that does not exist. My tendency is to wait till you answer my posting, but out of respect for the fine Christian that you are, I will answer your posting.

You use Ephesians 1:20-22 but in doing so you have contradicted yourself. How can our Lord be confined to the Father's throne - heaven, but at the same time say that it cannot contain Him? How can you confine Christ to the father's throne when there are double the amount of prophecies compared to His first advent, that He returns to earth? You have annulled Revelation 4 and Matthew 25 which have Him in His OWN throne. You have denied the councils of God Who put a man on an imperfect earth in the first place TO SUBDUE.

To your points:

1. YES! Christ will replace Lucifer in the same place. In Luke 4 Lucifer claims the Kingdoms of this world. Our Lord dos not deny this. That it is true is shown in that He was "tempted". If it had not been true what test was there?. In Revelation 11 these Kingdoms become those of Christ.

2. YES! The obedient angels will be WITH Christ (Matt.25:31). the disobedient angels will be confined on earth since the Lake of Fire was "made for the Devil AND his angels". Until then, the Devil and his angels are held in Tartaroo in the "bottomless pit adjacent to Hades (2nd Pet.2:4, Rev.20:1-3)

3. YES! Satan pollutes God's glorious earth. A Man replaces him. This is nothing new. The Canaanites dwelt in Canaan. They polluted the Land by sexual offense, murder, idol worship and bruning their children alive to Molech. Some time later, as you have testified, God dwelt in Canaan in Solomon's Temple

4. YES. God commanded the tabernacle be built and He dwelt there between the Cherubim. When the Good Land was subdued, Solomon built God a fixed House "in that place HE CHOSE to put His name". Jesus called Zerubbabel's Temple "His Father's House" in John 2. The Church is on earth - the "House of the living God". New Jerusalem, the Tabernacle of God, comes down to earth.

The earth and all that is in it belongs to the Lord. God so loved the world (kosmos) that He gave His only begotten Son ... ". That is the price God put on the earth. I personally would not belittle it.

That God dwells in unapproachable light in heaven is not disputed. That God fills the universe to overflow is not disputed. That God dwells in the spirits of Christians is not disputed. That God dwells in the Church is not disputed. That God is omniscient is confirmed. But that men will be transported to heaven, remain there and rule from there has no place in scripture.

Nice swapping ideas with you. Go well.

[Dan Knight]

2 hours ago, AdHoc said:

 

My dear sister,

It is our freedom and right to answer another how we like, and I am the first to uphold that right. But if we are intent in getting to the truth of a matter we are constrained to answer what is written. I have posted my answer and your answer together so that you, and the readers you mentioned, may see if you addressed my points.
1. Where is the "mound of evidence" for men going to heaven, staying there and ruling from there?

2. Why did you avoid the many and plain scriptures that give the earth to men?

3. Why have you singled out the Pharisees as those who have the Kingdom of God ripped from them when the context was "The Vine of Israel" and the new recipients an "ethnos" in the Greek. Strong gives the meaning as "a people, company or nation of the same genus". That is, this second people CANNOT be Israelites. This is a people of another "genus". This is born out in that in the Millennium Israel is ruled by Christ, David (a Christian) and the Twelve Apostles (Christians). The "genus" of the new royal nation is the Holy Spirit (Jn.3:3), not Jacob.

Instead, you have taken verses outside of the context and wrested them together to form a picture that does not exist. My tendency is to wait till you answer my posting, but out of respect for the fine Christian that you are, I will answer your posting.

You use Ephesians 1:20-22 but in doing so you have contradicted yourself. How can our Lord be confined to the Father's throne - heaven, but at the same time say that it cannot contain Him? How can you confine Christ to the father's throne when there are double the amount of prophecies compared to His first advent, that He returns to earth? You have annulled Revelation 4 and Matthew 25 which have Him in His OWN throne. You have denied the councils of God Who put a man on an imperfect earth in the first place TO SUBDUE.

To your points:

1. YES! Christ will replace Lucifer in the same place. In Luke 4 Lucifer claims the Kingdoms of this world. Our Lord dos not deny this. That it is true is shown in that He was "tempted". If it had not been true what test was there?. In Revelation 11 these Kingdoms become those of Christ.

2. YES! The obedient angels will be WITH Christ (Matt.25:31). the disobedient angels will be confined on earth since the Lake of Fire was "made for the Devil AND his angels". Until then, the Devil and his angels are held in Tartaroo in the "bottomless pit adjacent to Hades (2nd Pet.2:4, Rev.20:1-3)

3. YES! Satan pollutes God's glorious earth. A Man replaces him. This is nothing new. The Canaanites dwelt in Canaan. They polluted the Land by sexual offense, murder, idol worship and bruning their children alive to Molech. Some time later, as you have testified, God dwelt in Canaan in Solomon's Temple

4. YES. God commanded the tabernacle be built and He dwelt there between the Cherubim. When the Good Land was subdued, Solomon built God a fixed House "in that place HE CHOSE to put His name". Jesus called Zerubbabel's Temple "His Father's House" in John 2. The Church is on earth - the "House of the living God". New Jerusalem, the Tabernacle of God, comes down to earth.

The earth and all that is in it belongs to the Lord. God so loved the world (kosmos) that He gave His only begotten Son ... ". That is the price God put on the earth. I personally would not belittle it.

That God dwells in unapproachable light in heaven is not disputed. That God fills the universe to overflow is not disputed. That God dwells in the spirits of Christians is not disputed. That God dwells in the Church is not disputed. That God is omniscient is confirmed. But that men will be transported to heaven, remain there and rule from there has no place in scripture.

Nice swapping ideas with you. Go well.

Euaggelion-

Rev 21-22.   We are not going to heaven,  heaven is coming here. And that's the "Gospel "! 

 

Cognate: 2098 euaggélion – the Gospel – literally, "God's good news." See 2097 (euangelizō).

In ref to limiting God;  The Gospel(2098 /euaggélion) includes the entire Bible, i.e. it is not limited to how a person becomes a Christian. 

Yes The Father gave His only begotten,  praise the Most High God! AAANNND...there is a Whole Bunch before that and an ETERNITY AFTER THAT!

HAPPY EUAGGELION!!!

 

Edited September 11, 2022 by Dan Knight

[AdHoc]

1 hour ago, Dan Knight said:

Euaggelion-

Rev 21-22.   We are not going to heaven,  heaven is coming here. And that's the "Gospel "! 

 

Cognate: 2098 euaggélion – the Gospel – literally, "God's good news." See 2097 (euangelizō).

In ref to limiting God;  The Gospel(2098 /euaggélion) includes the entire Bible, i.e. it is not limited to how a person becomes a Christian. 

Yes The Father gave His only begotten,  praise the Most High God! AAANNND...there is a Whole Bunch before that and an ETERNITY AFTER THAT!

HAPPY EUAGGELION!!!

 

Thanks ... and yes, not only do we have a gospel that is too much for the human mind, but we have been given a revelation of God's purpose with EARTH. Our Lord's prayer is; "Thy kingdom COME (to earth), Thy will be done ON EARTH as it is in heaven:" The problem is not in heaven, but on earth. Man is made to subdue and rule EARTH. In heaven there is the golden altar of incense, but on earth the journey to God starts at the brazen altar of blood. A little quoted verse is so profound that it needs a deep appreciation just to speak it.

"The blood of sprinkling which speaks better things than that of Abel" (Heb.12.24)

Abel's blood required a just God to meet this affront and injustice. Thorns and thistles and failed harvests are the dwellers of earth's portion. It took the sinless blood and the most agonizing death of both body and soul of the Darling of heaven to give His Father the judicial right to lift this curse. Does this not make the EARTH a most valuable PRIZE. Is not the earth's beauty and wealth far surpassed by it being bought by Christ's blood?

Shall not the Man Who set the legal requirements of this same just God, dwell on His PRIZE? Is not the story of earth far more glorious than that of heaven?

Psalm 8:1–9
1  To the chief Musician upon Gittith, A Psalm of David. O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.
2  Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger.
3  When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;
4  What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
5  For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
6  Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
7  All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field;
8  The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas.
9  O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!

It is man's glory to be chosen to rule this glorious corner of the vast universe.

 

[Dan Knight]

2 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Thanks ... and yes, not only do we have a gospel that is too much for the human mind, but we have been given a revelation of God's purpose with EARTH. Our Lord's prayer is; "Thy kingdom COME (to earth), Thy will be done ON EARTH as it is in heaven:" The problem is not in heaven, but on earth. Man is made to subdue and rule EARTH. In heaven there is the golden altar of incense, but on earth the journey to God starts at the brazen altar of blood. A little quoted verse is so profound that it needs a deep appreciation just to speak it.

"The blood of sprinkling which speaks better things than that of Abel" (Heb.12.24)

Abel's blood required a just God to meet this affront and injustice. Thorns and thistles and failed harvests are the dwellers of earth's portion. It took the sinless blood and the most agonizing death of both body and soul of the Darling of heaven to give His Father the judicial right to lift this curse. Does this not make the EARTH a most valuable PRIZE. Is not the earth's beauty and wealth far surpassed by it being bought by Christ's blood?

Shall not the Man Who set the legal requirements of this same just God, dwell on His PRIZE? Is not the story of earth far more glorious than that of heaven?

Psalm 8:1–9
1  To the chief Musician upon Gittith, A Psalm of David. O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.
2  Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger.
3  When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;
4  What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
5  For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
6  Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
7  All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field;
8  The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas.
9  O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!

It is man's glory to be chosen to rule this glorious corner of the vast universe.

 

3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying:

“Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man,

and He will dwell with them.

They will be His people,

and God Himself will be with them as their God.b

4‘He will wipe away every tear from their eyes,’c

and there will be no more death

or mourning or crying or pain,

for the former things have passed away.”

[Dan Knight]

4 minutes ago, Dan Knight said:

3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying:

“Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man,

and He will dwell with them.

They will be His people,

and God Himself will be with them as their God.b

4‘He will wipe away every tear from their eyes,’c

and there will be no more death

or mourning or crying or pain,

for the former things have passed away.”

 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb ² down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. ³ No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him. ⁴ They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. ⁵ There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever."

And where is this throne of God at this mentioned time?

"Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man,

and He will dwell with them."

[Marilyn C]

11 hours ago, AdHoc said:

 

My dear sister,

It is our freedom and right to answer another how we like, and I am the first to uphold that right. But if we are intent in getting to the truth of a matter we are constrained to answer what is written. I have posted my answer and your answer together so that you, and the readers you mentioned, may see if you addressed my points.
1. Where is the "mound of evidence" for men going to heaven, staying there and ruling from there?

2. Why did you avoid the many and plain scriptures that give the earth to men?

3. Why have you singled out the Pharisees as those who have the Kingdom of God ripped from them when the context was "The Vine of Israel" and the new recipients an "ethnos" in the Greek. Strong gives the meaning as "a people, company or nation of the same genus". That is, this second people CANNOT be Israelites. This is a people of another "genus". This is born out in that in the Millennium Israel is ruled by Christ, David (a Christian) and the Twelve Apostles (Christians). The "genus" of the new royal nation is the Holy Spirit (Jn.3:3), not Jacob.

Instead, you have taken verses outside of the context and wrested them together to form a picture that does not exist. My tendency is to wait till you answer my posting, but out of respect for the fine Christian that you are, I will answer your posting.

You use Ephesians 1:20-22 but in doing so you have contradicted yourself. How can our Lord be confined to the Father's throne - heaven, but at the same time say that it cannot contain Him? How can you confine Christ to the father's throne when there are double the amount of prophecies compared to His first advent, that He returns to earth? You have annulled Revelation 4 and Matthew 25 which have Him in His OWN throne. You have denied the councils of God Who put a man on an imperfect earth in the first place TO SUBDUE.......

Nice swapping ideas with you. Go well.

Hi Ad Hoc,

I do hope we are doing more than just `swapping ideas,` as you say. I hope and pray that we are working towards the truth. So you would like me to do each question rather than the general theme of the point - heaven or earth.

1.     You say, `Where is the "mound of evidence" for men going to heaven, staying there and ruling from there?` A truth is NOT truth because of the `mound of evidence` but because God said so.

 

2.     You say,  `Why did you avoid the many and plain scriptures that give the earth to men?` I don`t avoid them because it is the truth. However NOT all men (& women) have their inheritance on the earth.

 

3.     You say, `Why have you singled out the Pharisees as those who have the Kingdom of God ripped from them when the context was "The Vine of Israel" and the new recipients an "ethnos" in the Greek.`

God`s word tells us who the Lord is talking to - `Now when He (Jesus) came into the Temple the CHIEF PRIESTS and the ELDERS of the people confronted Him as He was teaching...` (Matt. 21: 21)

Jesus said to THEM......` (Matt. 21: 42)

 

4.     You say, `You use Ephesians 1:20-22 but in doing so you have contradicted yourself. How can our Lord be confined to the Father's throne - heaven, but at the same time say that it cannot contain Him? How can you confine Christ to the father's throne when there are double the amount of prophecies compared to His first advent, that He returns to earth? You have annulled Revelation 4 and Matthew 25 which have Him in His OWN throne.`

The word Throne relates to authority. The Lord Jesus Christ is part of the Godhead - Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Thus they ALL share the authority of the Godhead.

It is NOT a physical seat for someone to sit on and be `confined` as you say. The Father gave the glorified Son in bodily form the authority and position He had before His earthly manifestation. (Eph. 1: 20 & 21) The phrase `right hand` indicates that it is the Son who administers the Father`s will. (John 5: 26 & 27)

And yes we agree that the Lord comes back to this earth to deliver Israel and deal with the rebellious nations and people. He then sets up His kingdom rule of a regent king, and priests. (Ez. 37: 24.  Jer. 30: 9,  Isa. 66: 21)

 

The Lord`s OWN THRONE is the authority the Father gives for the Son to bring the judgments upon the earth, (John 5: 26 & 27,  Ps. 110: 2,  Rev. 5: 5)

5.     You say, `You have denied the councils of God Who put a man on an imperfect earth in the first place TO SUBDUE.`  I agree that that is so, however there will be SOME people who will rule and reign with the Lord on His own throne in the highest. (Rev. 3: 21)

 

 

 

[Marilyn C]

11 hours ago, AdHoc said:

 

My dear sister,

 

To your points:

1. YES! Christ will replace Lucifer in the same place. In Luke 4 Lucifer claims the Kingdoms of this world. Our Lord dos not deny this. That it is true is shown in that He was "tempted". If it had not been true what test was there?. In Revelation 11 these Kingdoms become those of Christ.

2. YES! The obedient angels will be WITH Christ (Matt.25:31). the disobedient angels will be confined on earth since the Lake of Fire was "made for the Devil AND his angels". Until then, the Devil and his angels are held in Tartaroo in the "bottomless pit adjacent to Hades (2nd Pet.2:4, Rev.20:1-3)

3. YES! Satan pollutes God's glorious earth. A Man replaces him. This is nothing new. The Canaanites dwelt in Canaan. They polluted the Land by sexual offense, murder, idol worship and bruning their children alive to Molech. Some time later, as you have testified, God dwelt in Canaan in Solomon's Temple

4. YES. God commanded the tabernacle be built and He dwelt there between the Cherubim. When the Good Land was subdued, Solomon built God a fixed House "in that place HE CHOSE to put His name". Jesus called Zerubbabel's Temple "His Father's House" in John 2. The Church is on earth - the "House of the living God". New Jerusalem, the Tabernacle of God, comes down to earth.

The earth and all that is in it belongs to the Lord. God so loved the world (kosmos) that He gave His only begotten Son ... ". That is the price God put on the earth. I personally would not belittle it.
 

Hi again Ad Hoc.

1.     We agree that Satan, (formerly Lucifer)  claimed the kingdoms of the world and we agree that the Lord will put all authority down and receive the earthly kingdoms under His authority. However that is NOT where Lucifer`s throne/authority as a kingpriest was. Lucifer`s throne was in the angelic realm, the third heaven.

`How you have fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! .......For you have said in your heart, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; ...I will be like the Most High.” (Isa. 14: 12 - 14)

 

2.     The angels of God are around His throne, `ministering to Him,` and being sent forth as commanded. (Dan. 7: 10,  Ps. 68: 17)

3.     Satan rules from the `Principalities and Powers` authority. (Eph. 2: 2,   6: 12)

4.     Now I would be careful as to saying who is `belittling` what the Lord has done. We agree that God has purpose for man on this earth, what we are NOT agreeing is that God also has purposes for man to rule in the heavenlies and highest heaven. And that is the eternal purposes of God, way beyond any limitation to earth.

 

[Marilyn C]

11 hours ago, AdHoc said:

 

My dear sister,

That God dwells in unapproachable light in heaven is not disputed. That God fills the universe to overflow is not disputed. That God dwells in the spirits of Christians is not disputed. That God dwells in the Church is not disputed. That God is omniscient is confirmed. But that men will be transported to heaven, remain there and rule from there has no place in scripture.

 

You say, `But that men will be transported to heaven, remain there and rule from there has no place in scripture.`

And therein lies the `battle` for the final truth to be received by the Body of Christ.

Here are the scriptures for the High calling, (on top calling) in Christ.

THE BODY OF CHRIST`S INHERITANCE IS IN HEAVEN.

Our inheritance, our hope, our place, our citizenship, all of which are IN HEAVEN.

 `...to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you.` (1 Peter 1: 4 )

` ...because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of truth..`(Col. 1: 5)

` ...and raised us up together and made to sit in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.`(Eph. 2: 6)

` For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly await for the saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ.` (Phil. 3: 20)

 

Finally - `...that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, if by any means, I may attain to the resurrection of the dead.

Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on. That I may lay hold of that which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me.

Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, I press towards the goal of the prize of the upward, (on top) call of God in Christ Jesus.

Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything YOU THINK OTHERWISE, God will reveal even this to you. Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us be of the same mind.` (Phil. 3: 10 - 16)

I believe this would be both our desire. Marilyn.

 

[DPMartin]

On 9/9/2022 at 10:50 AM, AdHoc said:

I put forward an argument which you rejected out of hand. If you do that it can be construed as supporting the original. Instead of entering into the grammar and meaning of the Greek to correct me, you painted my reference, brother Darby's translation, as wanting. My next posting will obviously defend my previous. That is why we are on this Forum.

I would dearly appreciate your counter argument - if you have one. Painting Mr. Darby as aligned with the JWs is a good tactic, but it does not clear up whether the kingdom was WITHIN the Pharisees or "AMONG" them.

But if you have changed your mind and agree with me now, I rejoice. I've had to change my mind many times so I know about it. If you haven't changed your mind, why, lets continue to debate. Your turn now.

maybe you think this is about winning an argument, not so here, my posting is merly an FYI on darby