Marathoner Posted October 7, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 72 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,266 Content Per Day: 7.09 Reputation: 13,293 Days Won: 99 Joined: 05/24/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted October 7, 2022 3 minutes ago, missmuffet said: For those who believe in annihilation and do not believe that the soul lasts for an eternity you are supporting what is not biblical. There is no where in the Holy Bible that says the soul will be destroyed. You are giving the Holy Words that are in the Bible your own interpretation. That goes along with choices that we make. That's your opinion. The scriptures clearly state that the soul who sins will die (Ezekiel 18), and also that our Lord Jesus Christ will condemn the wicked to eternal destruction (2 Thessalonians 1:6-10). There is ample scriptural support for the destruction of the wicked, MM. This particular debate has been carrying on for centuries. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marathoner Posted October 7, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 72 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,266 Content Per Day: 7.09 Reputation: 13,293 Days Won: 99 Joined: 05/24/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted October 7, 2022 In any case, this subject matter is not a matter of core doctrine, is it? Certainly not. This is properly regarded as the meat of His word, a matter which the mature consider and weigh according to the scriptures. We should be careful regarding accusations where non-essential matters are concerned, remembering that we will be held to account for every idle word. Disagreement in non-essentials is inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted October 7, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,992 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,690 Content Per Day: 11.77 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted October 7, 2022 Suit yourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny2212 Posted October 7, 2022 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 359 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 101 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 7, 2022 1 hour ago, missmuffet said: Is annihilationism biblical? https://www.gotquestions.org ANSWER Annihilationism is the belief that unbelievers will not experience an eternity of suffering in hell, but will instead be “extinguished” after death. For many, annihilationism is an attractive belief because of the awfulness of the idea of people spending eternity in hell. While there are some passages that seem to argue for annihilationism, a comprehensive look at what the Bible says about the destiny of the wicked reveals the fact that punishment in hell is eternal. A belief in annihilationism results from a misunderstanding of one or more of the following doctrines: 1) the consequences of sin, 2) the justice of God, 3) the nature of hell. In relation to the nature of hell, annihilationists misunderstand the meaning of the lake of fire. Obviously, if a human being were cast into a lake of burning lava, he/she would be almost instantly consumed. However, the lake of fire is both a physical and spiritual realm. It is not simply a human body being cast into the lake of fire; it is a human’s body, soul, and spirit. A spiritual nature cannot be consumed by physical fire. It seems that the unsaved are resurrected with a body prepared for eternity just as the saved are (Revelation 20:13; Acts 24:15). These bodies are prepared for an eternal fate. Eternity is another aspect which annihilationists fail to fully comprehend. Annihilationists are correct that the Greek word aionion, which is usually translated “eternal,” does not by definition mean “eternal.” It specifically refers to an “age” or “eon,” a specific period of time. However, it is clear that in the New Testament, aionion is sometimes used to refer to an eternal length of time. Revelation 20:10 speaks of Satan, the beast, and the false prophet being cast into the lake of fire and being tormented “day and night forever and ever.” It is clear that these three are not “extinguished” by being cast into the lake of fire. Why would the fate of the unsaved be any different (Revelation 20:14-15)? The most convincing evidence for the eternality of hell is Matthew 25:46, “Then they [the unsaved] will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” In this verse, the same Greek word is used to refer to the destiny of the wicked and the righteous. If the wicked are only tormented for an “age,” then the righteous will only experience life in heaven for an “age.” If believers will be in heaven forever, unbelievers will be in hell forever. Another frequent objection to the eternality of hell by annihilationists is that it would be unjust for God to punish unbelievers in hell for eternity for a finite amount of sin. How could it be fair for God to take a person who lived a sinful, 70-year life, and punish him/her for all of eternity? The answer is that our sin bears an eternal consequence because it is committed against an eternal God. When King David committed the sins of adultery and murder he stated, “Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight” (Psalm 51:4). David had sinned against Bathsheba and Uriah; how could David claim to have only sinned against God? David understood that all sin is ultimately against God. God is an eternal and infinite Being. As a result, all sin against Him is worthy of an eternal punishment. It is not a matter of the length of time we sin, but the character of the God against whom we sin. A more personal aspect of annihilationism is the idea that we could not possibly be happy in heaven if we knew that some of our loved ones were suffering an eternity of torment in hell. However, when we arrive in heaven, we will not have anything to complain about or be saddened by. Revelation 21:4 tells us, “He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.” If some of our loved ones are not in heaven, we will be in 100 percent complete agreement that they do not belong there and that they are condemned by their own refusal to accept Jesus Christ as their Savior (John 3:16; 14:6). It is hard to understand this, but we will not be saddened by the lack of their presence. Our focus should not be on how we can enjoy heaven without all of our loved ones there, but on how we can point our loved ones to faith in Christ so that they will be there. Hell is perhaps a primary reason why God sent Jesus Christ to pay the penalty for our sins. Being “extinguished” after death is no fate to dread, but an eternity in hell most definitely is. Jesus’ death was an infinite death, paying our infinite sin debt so that we would not have to pay it in hell for eternity (2 Corinthians 5:21). When we place our faith in Him, we are saved, forgiven, cleansed, and promised an eternal home in heaven. But if we reject God’s gift of eternal life, we will face the eternal consequences of that decision. FOR FURTHER STUDY Four Views on Hell, Second Edition by Burk & Stackhouse I get it. You don't agree with my school of thought. I guess it will all pan out (pan-trib) in the end. God bless you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah7 Posted October 7, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,610 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 3,182 Days Won: 11 Joined: 05/25/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted October 7, 2022 @missmuffet Greetings. This is the way I see it. Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. My, my, my! some idea of heaven. No, I don't believe so. The Bible repeatedly states that the wicked will perish and experience the second death—the DESTRUCTION OF THE SOUL. What does John 3:16 say? "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. - John 3:16 (NKJV) I firmly feel that verse 10 has been (intentionally) mistranslated. The Greek word "basanos" is the origin of the English word "torment," which means (through the notion of going to the bottom). But the entire phrase simply implies that Satan will be consumed, debased, and destroyed day and night (for all eternity), forever and ever (to be no more). Okay, let’s look at a second account of events, another description of Satan's final doom, found in the 28th chapter of Ezekiel. Here's how Satan dies. He is destroyed by FIRE. Is it true that God is a consuming fire? Yes, it’s true. Hebrews 12 documents it. For our God is a consuming fire. - Hebrews 12:29 God will destroy Satan, reduce him to ashes and completely erase him from existence. Ezekiel 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more. Satan will BE NO MORE. His very name in Greek is "Apollyon" which means “PERISH,” and that is why he is called the "Son of Perdition.”—the son who will perish. Selah 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted October 8, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,874 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,767 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted October 8, 2022 4 hours ago, Selah7 said: @missmuffet Greetings. This is the way I see it. Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. My, my, my! some idea of heaven. No, I don't believe so. The Bible repeatedly states that the wicked will perish and experience the second death—the DESTRUCTION OF THE SOUL. What does John 3:16 say? "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. - John 3:16 (NKJV) I firmly feel that verse 10 has been (intentionally) mistranslated. The Greek word "basanos" is the origin of the English word "torment," which means (through the notion of going to the bottom). But the entire phrase simply implies that Satan will be consumed, debased, and destroyed day and night (for all eternity), forever and ever (to be no more). Okay, let’s look at a second account of events, another description of Satan's final doom, found in the 28th chapter of Ezekiel. Here's how Satan dies. He is destroyed by FIRE. Is it true that God is a consuming fire? Yes, it’s true. Hebrews 12 documents it. For our God is a consuming fire. - Hebrews 12:29 God will destroy Satan, reduce him to ashes and completely erase him from existence. Ezekiel 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more. Satan will BE NO MORE. His very name in Greek is "Apollyon" which means “PERISH,” and that is why he is called the "Son of Perdition.”—the son who will perish. Selah Satan cannot be burned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted October 8, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,874 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,767 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted October 8, 2022 A soul cannot be destroyed by fire... When someone who died in denial that Jesus is the Christ, he will bow down to Jesus.. His body is the earth, he is not carrying his body with him... If he died in the fire his body is burned....his soul is not and cannot be burned...his soul survives, if he was a believer he will bow down before Jesus as he is in his soul...Jesus cannot denied him his Heavenly Inheritance... When the unbeliever, who has refused to believe in Jesus Christ bow down before Jesus he already have believe in him...He can see who Jesus is he cannot denied him anymore...when he was on earth he cannot see him and he can be defiant and say what made him feel good for him to say and one of them is that God is merciful and forgiving and he loves the people who are merciful and forgiving after all he sent Jesus to tell us that if you forgive God will also forgive you...and God is love and does good and he dedicate his time to love his neibour like himself, somehow competing with Jesus in acts of Mercy and kindness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted October 8, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,992 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,690 Content Per Day: 11.77 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted October 8, 2022 1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said: Satan cannot be burned. That is true and the other unbelievers can not be burned as well. Their soul will live a conscious eternity forever and ever in hell. Although because of Revelation 20:12 I do believe there will be levels of punishment in hell. Although it will all be very, very bad. There will be different rewards in heaven for the believers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted October 8, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,874 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,767 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted October 8, 2022 1 minute ago, missmuffet said: That is true and the other unbelievers can not be burned as well. Their soul will live a conscious eternity forever and ever in hell. Although because of Revelation 20:12 I do believe there will be levels of punishment in hell. Although it will all be very, very bad. There will be different rewards in heaven for the believers. You are bless..you know that in your heart, no need for anyone to tell you that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeighAnn Posted October 8, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,301 Content Per Day: 3.61 Reputation: 1,658 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 8, 2022 (edited) On 10/6/2022 at 8:01 AM, tim_from_pa said: Along that line is the separation of the soul from the body i.e. a conscious soul but unconscious body. Both of these are false. An extrapolated doctrine if we did accept these beliefs about an immortal soul that can be separated from the body, then we get into doctrines such as "dying and going to heaven" or "dying and going to hell" even though logically to send anyone to heaven or hell is judging the outcome before the final judgement so I'm not sure how that passes the logic test. Then please allow me to share what I read. It is sown a natural body it is raised (resurrected) a spiritual body. That is called dying in the flesh yet never dying but passing through death in the spiritual body and not going to hell. Just like the DEAD who will be raised up when Christ returns, they will be in their spiritual bodies. Man is body and spirit which is a living soul. When this flesh dies, man is then a spiritual body and spirit, a living soul. No souls DIE until the 2nd death and then they DIE, no petty evil eternal torment because the penalty is death, the 2nd death and that takes place in the ETERNAL fire of the LAKE in which I agree with you. Jesus said 'FOLLOW ME' and the only place He said he was going was to the FATHER, who art in heaven hallowed be THY name. So got to go to follow Him Jesus ALSO said in the resurrection (rising up) you will be like the angels IN HEAVEN. Didn't say like the angels that are returning with Him when the kingdoms of the world become His. Again, got to go. We can also know Jesus was not referring to the earth because He told those calling themselves 'Jews', THEY would not be following Him to where He went. They got to stay. We also know Paul said not to be sad about those who 'sleep' aka die because they, like Christ, rise and they will be brought back with Him. So got to go to be brought back I know nothing (nor do I want to know) of old myths or anything like them, that may have had influence, I just know what is written and what is written is 'those who have been saved go on to heaven and then return'. GODS WORDS STATE THIS AS FACT. If you have professed The Son of God and all that goes with it, THAT is all the judgment it takes to go to heaven to be judged at the seat of Christ. IF YOU DON'T possess that GIFT of Salvation, then you go to the place of the DEAD and await the 2nd Advent to resurrect, then you have the 1000 years before you stand in judgment at the GWTJ to see if in fact you are just or unjust, accomplished by either being found in the book of life or the lake of fire. Those are also the words of God as in IT IS WRITTEN. Hopefully this passes 'the logic' test for you. On 10/6/2022 at 8:01 AM, tim_from_pa said: then the question would rightfully have to be asked as to the point in the resurrection? Certainly if we are going to be priests and rule and reign with Christ over the nations, the nations have to rise up from the dead. Unless you believe we will be ruling and reigning in hell. NO the DEAD are resurrected because those who NEVER DIE don't need to be resurrected ESPECIALLY OUT FROM THE DEAD. Talk about a false doctrine. Ever wonder why the CHURCH is failing these days? Look at what they are trying to make people with common sense believe. The never die resurrecting out from the dead??????????????????????????????????????????????????? HOW insane does that sound to an everyday person. No the never die NEVER GO TO BE AMONST THE DEAD they just pass through death (dropping off the flesh) and going on to heaven. Just like it is written. Those who believe that A JUST GOD would torture anyone or anything forever with no chance of repentance or hope, are in for a HARSH JUDGMENT DAY, that much is for sure. Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. Matthew 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. WHAT A THING TO BE WRONG ABOUT. Out of all doctrines, this is the scariest to me about being wrong about. Here are the possibilities surrounding this issue. IF GOD does torture those who He created forever and ever, knowing they are just stupid little beings and their lives are like a blade of grass that blasts in the sun, and you DON'T TEACH THAT but teach He is a MERCIFUL GOD, how MAD can He get? FLIP SIDE IF YOU TEACH God does torture those who He created forever and ever, with no hope of it ever ending, knowing they are just little stupid beings AND THAT ISN'T the TRUTH, then you are teaching that a JUST AND RIGHTEOUS AND MERCIFUL GOD ISN'T, just and righteous and merciful. HOW MAD DO YOU THINK THAT WOULD MAKE HIM? Just saying, of ALL the things we can be wrong about, best be SURE you are on the right side of this one. I don't know what blasphemy is but if I was teaching that, I would sure go find out, just to be sure. I know it hurts my spirit whenever I hear it. And I may not know God but I do know I have the mind of Christ. Again, just saying... IMHO 3563. nous Strong's Concordance nous: mind, understanding, reason Original Word: νοῦς, νοός, νοΐ, νοῦν, ὁ Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine Transliteration: nous Phonetic Spelling: (nooce) Definition: mind, understanding, reason Usage: the mind, the reason, the reasoning faculty, intellect. 1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 1 Corinthians 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 1 Corinthians 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 1 Corinthians 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 1 Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 1 Corinthians 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. Edited October 8, 2022 by DeighAnn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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