Question for thought

[missmuffet]

On 11/3/2022 at 4:05 PM, Shilohsfoal said:

In scripture, we read the beast out of the Pitt and the ten horns hate the prostitute (which is a city) and will attack her and burn her. 

Revelation 17:16-18

The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire.

For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to hand over to the beast their royal authority, until God’s words are fulfilled.

The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”

 

We also read in scripture what city the beast attacks. 

Rev 11:3-8

And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.”

They are “the two olive trees” and the two lampstands, and “they stand before the Lord of the earth.”

If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die.

They have power to shut up the heavens so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.

Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them.

Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified

Now the question is this. 

 

What are the two Christian witnesses doing with the drunk prostitute? 

 

 

 

 

Revelation 11:3-8

The two witnesses will prophecy 1,260 days or  3 1/2 years. The identity of the two witnesses has been a field day for the Bible scholars. Some have identified them as Moses and Elijah and some have identified them as Moses and Enoch. They are two prophets who will be raised up from among those who turn to Christ in the time following the rapture.

Satan also tries to mimic God, who also has two witnesses who is the world ruler and the false prophet. Satan often tried to mimic God.

Revelation 17:3-8

The prostitute which is Babylon is stripped of all her finery, her flesh eaten, and she is buried with fire. This is the downfall of the apostate world church of the future. 

 

[Selah7]

On 11/3/2022 at 6:05 PM, Shilohsfoal said:

In scripture, we read the beast out of the Pitt and the ten horns hate the prostitute (which is a city) and will attack her and burn her. 

Revelation 17:16-18

The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire.

For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to hand over to the beast their royal authority, until God’s words are fulfilled.

The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”

 

We also read in scripture what city the beast attacks. 

Rev 11:3-8

And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.”

They are “the two olive trees” and the two lampstands, and “they stand before the Lord of the earth.”

If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die.

They have power to shut up the heavens so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.

Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them.

Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified

Now the question is this. 

 

What are the two Christian witnesses doing with the drunk prostitute? 

 

 

 

 

According to what I understand, the "drunk prostitute" is a one-world system.  It is the first beast mentioned in Revelation 13:1:

And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

- Revelation 13:1 (KJV)

The two witnesses are on earth at this time to warn people and bear witness against the antichrist.

-Selah 

[Shilohsfoal]

3 hours ago, Selah7 said:

According to what I understand, the "drunk prostitute" is a one-world system.  It is the first beast mentioned in Revelation 13:1:

And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

- Revelation 13:1 (KJV)

The two witnesses are on earth at this time to warn people and bear witness against the antichrist.

-Selah 

So you disagree with the explanation given of the woman on the beast? 

Revelation 17:18

The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”

[Shilohsfoal]

5 hours ago, missmuffet said:

Revelation 11:3-8

The two witnesses will prophecy 1,260 days or  3 1/2 years. The identity of the two witnesses has been a field day for the Bible scholars. Some have identified them as Moses and Elijah and some have identified them as Moses and Enoch. They are two prophets who will be raised up from among those who turn to Christ in the time following the rapture.

Satan also tries to mimic God, who also has two witnesses who is the world ruler and the false prophet. Satan often tried to mimic God.

Revelation 17:3-8

The prostitute which is Babylon is stripped of all her finery, her flesh eaten, and she is buried with fire. This is the downfall of the apostate world church of the future. 

 

Everyone in Judaism and Islam would agree with you. 

But can you show me where the two witnesses warn anyone in Revelation? 

If you could show me where they warn just one person, I might believe you. 

Edited November 6, 2022 by Shilohsfoal

[missmuffet]

58 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Everyone in Judaism and Islam would agree with you. 

But can you show me where the two witnesses warn anyone in Revelation? 

If you could show me where they warn just one person, I might believe you. 

You can believe me or not. That is your choice.

Who are the two witnesses in the book of Revelation?

https://www.gotquestions.org

ANSWER

In Revelation 11:3–12 is a description of two individuals who will help accomplish God’s work during the tribulation: “I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth” (verse 3). Nowhere does the Bible identify these two witnesses by name, although people through the years have speculated.

The two witnesses in Revelation will have miraculous powers to accompany their message (Revelation 11:6), and no one will be able to stop them in their work (verse 5). At the end of their ministry, when they have said all they need to say, the beast will kill them and the wicked world will rejoice, allowing the bodies of the fallen prophets to lie in the streets (verses 7–10). Three and a half days later, however, God’s two witnesses will be resurrected and, in full view of their enemies, ascend to heaven (verses 11–12).

There are three primary theories on the identity of the two witnesses in Revelation: (1) Moses and Elijah, (2) Enoch and Elijah, and (3) two unknown believers whom God calls to be His witnesses in the end times.

(1) Moses and Elijah are seen as possibilities for the two witnesses due to the specific miracles that John says the witnesses will perform. The witnesses will have the power to turn water into blood (Revelation 11:6), which duplicates a famous miracle of Moses (Exodus 7). And the witnesses will have the power to destroy their enemies with fire (Revelation 11:5), which corresponds to an event in Elijah’s life (2 Kings 1). Also giving strength to this view is the fact that Moses and Elijah both appeared with Jesus at the transfiguration (Matthew 17:3–4). Further, Jewish tradition expects Moses and Elijah to return, based on the prophecy of Elijah’s coming in Malachi 4:5 and God’s promise to raise up a prophet like Moses (Deuteronomy 18:15, 18), which some Jews believe necessitates Moses’ return.

(2) Enoch and Elijah are seen as possibilities for the two witnesses because of the unique circumstances surrounding their exit from the world. Enoch and Elijah, as far as we know, are the only two individuals whom God has taken directly to heaven without experiencing death (Genesis 5:23; 2 Kings 2:11). Proponents of this view point to Hebrews 9:27, which says that all men are appointed to die once. The fact that neither Enoch nor Elijah has yet experienced death seems to qualify them for the job of the two witnesses, who will be killed when their job is done. In addition, both Enoch and Elijah were prophets who pronounced God’s judgment (1 Kings 17:1; Jude 1:14–15).

(3) Two unknowns are seen as possibilities for the two witnesses because of the lack of specificity in Revelation 11. Scripture does not identify the two witnesses by name, and no well-known person is associated with their coming. God is perfectly capable of taking two “ordinary” believers and enabling them to perform the same signs and wonders that Moses and Elijah did. There is nothing in Revelation 11 that requires us to assume a “famous” identity for the two witnesses.

There is an interesting passage in Zechariah 4 that gives us a prototype of the two witnesses of Revelation. Zechariah has a vision in which he sees a solid gold lampstand. On top is a bowl of oil, and an olive tree stands on each side (verses 3–4). The lampstand gives its light without human maintenance, being constantly supplied by the olive oil flowing from the trees into the bowl. God’s message to Zechariah was that God’s work (rebuilding the temple) would be accomplished “not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit” (verse 6).

Zechariah asks about the meaning of the olive trees and the branches supplying the oil, and the angel who speaks to him says, “These are the two anointed ones who stand by the Lord of the whole earth” (Zechariah 4:14, ESV). In other words, God’s power to sustain His work is flowing through two individuals set apart for the task. In Zechariah’s context, these two individuals are Joshua (the current high priest) and Zerubbabel (the current governor of Judah). We can also see a foreshadowing of Jesus Christ here, as the Messiah would combine the offices of priest and king. Then we come to Revelation 11:4. In the description of the two witnesses, John says, “They are ‘the two olive trees’ and the two lampstands, and ‘they stand before the Lord of the earth.’” John quotes from Zechariah 4. The two witnesses of Revelation, like Joshua and Zerubbabel, will have God’s power flowing through them to accomplish God’s work.

So who are the two witnesses of Revelation? The Bible does not say. All three views presented above are valid and plausible interpretations that Christians can have. The identity of the two witnesses is not an issue Christians should be dogmatic about.
 

FOR FURTHER STUDY

Edited November 6, 2022 by missmuffet

[Shilohsfoal]

5 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

You can believe me or not. That is your choice.

Who are the two witnesses in the book of Revelation?

https://www.gotquestions.org

ANSWER

In Revelation 11:3–12 is a description of two individuals who will help accomplish God’s work during the tribulation: “I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth” (verse 3). Nowhere does the Bible identify these two witnesses by name, although people through the years have speculated.

The two witnesses in Revelation will have miraculous powers to accompany their message (Revelation 11:6), and no one will be able to stop them in their work (verse 5). At the end of their ministry, when they have said all they need to say, the beast will kill them and the wicked world will rejoice, allowing the bodies of the fallen prophets to lie in the streets (verses 7–10). Three and a half days later, however, God’s two witnesses will be resurrected and, in full view of their enemies, ascend to heaven (verses 11–12).

There are three primary theories on the identity of the two witnesses in Revelation: (1) Moses and Elijah, (2) Enoch and Elijah, and (3) two unknown believers whom God calls to be His witnesses in the end times.

(1) Moses and Elijah are seen as possibilities for the two witnesses due to the specific miracles that John says the witnesses will perform. The witnesses will have the power to turn water into blood (Revelation 11:6), which duplicates a famous miracle of Moses (Exodus 7). And the witnesses will have the power to destroy their enemies with fire (Revelation 11:5), which corresponds to an event in Elijah’s life (2 Kings 1). Also giving strength to this view is the fact that Moses and Elijah both appeared with Jesus at the transfiguration (Matthew 17:3–4). Further, Jewish tradition expects Moses and Elijah to return, based on the prophecy of Elijah’s coming in Malachi 4:5 and God’s promise to raise up a prophet like Moses (Deuteronomy 18:15, 18), which some Jews believe necessitates Moses’ return.

(2) Enoch and Elijah are seen as possibilities for the two witnesses because of the unique circumstances surrounding their exit from the world. Enoch and Elijah, as far as we know, are the only two individuals whom God has taken directly to heaven without experiencing death (Genesis 5:23; 2 Kings 2:11). Proponents of this view point to Hebrews 9:27, which says that all men are appointed to die once. The fact that neither Enoch nor Elijah has yet experienced death seems to qualify them for the job of the two witnesses, who will be killed when their job is done. In addition, both Enoch and Elijah were prophets who pronounced God’s judgment (1 Kings 17:1; Jude 1:14–15).

(3) Two unknowns are seen as possibilities for the two witnesses because of the lack of specificity in Revelation 11. Scripture does not identify the two witnesses by name, and no well-known person is associated with their coming. God is perfectly capable of taking two “ordinary” believers and enabling them to perform the same signs and wonders that Moses and Elijah did. There is nothing in Revelation 11 that requires us to assume a “famous” identity for the two witnesses.

There is an interesting passage in Zechariah 4 that gives us a prototype of the two witnesses of Revelation. Zechariah has a vision in which he sees a solid gold lampstand. On top is a bowl of oil, and an olive tree stands on each side (verses 3–4). The lampstand gives its light without human maintenance, being constantly supplied by the olive oil flowing from the trees into the bowl. God’s message to Zechariah was that God’s work (rebuilding the temple) would be accomplished “not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit” (verse 6).

Zechariah asks about the meaning of the olive trees and the branches supplying the oil, and the angel who speaks to him says, “These are the two anointed ones who stand by the Lord of the whole earth” (Zechariah 4:14, ESV). In other words, God’s power to sustain His work is flowing through two individuals set apart for the task. In Zechariah’s context, these two individuals are Joshua (the current high priest) and Zerubbabel (the current governor of Judah). We can also see a foreshadowing of Jesus Christ here, as the Messiah would combine the offices of priest and king. Then we come to Revelation 11:4. In the description of the two witnesses, John says, “They are ‘the two olive trees’ and the two lampstands, and ‘they stand before the Lord of the earth.’” John quotes from Zechariah 4. The two witnesses of Revelation, like Joshua and Zerubbabel, will have God’s power flowing through them to accomplish God’s work.

So who are the two witnesses of Revelation? The Bible does not say. All three views presented above are valid and plausible interpretations that Christians can have. The identity of the two witnesses is not an issue Christians should be dogmatic about.
 

FOR FURTHER STUDY

OK, I take it you could not show me one person those two witnesses warn about anything. 

Yea, I didn't think so. 

[missmuffet]

27 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

OK, I take it you could not show me one person those two witnesses warn about anything. 

Yea, I didn't think so. 

Suit yourself.

[Keras]

The Two Witness's will be 2 of the 144,000 faithful people who will go to all the nations to proclaim the coming Kingdom of Jesus. 

Proved by Isaiah 66:19 and Revelation 14:1-7.  The 'angel' in Rev 14:6, is an allegory for them.   

When Jesus Returns, He will resurrect them, along with all the Great Trib martyrs. 

[Shilohsfoal]

On 11/6/2022 at 1:26 AM, Keras said:

The Two Witness's will be 2 of the 144,000 faithful people who will go to all the nations to proclaim the coming Kingdom of Jesus. 

Proved by Isaiah 66:19 and Revelation 14:1-7.  The 'angel' in Rev 14:6, is an allegory for them.   

When Jesus Returns, He will resurrect them, along with all the Great Trib martyrs. 

The two witnesses don't go to all the nations to proclam the kingdom of Jesus. They spend the entire 42 months in Jerusalem tormenting people like revelation says. 

And they are taken out of Christ's kingdom before it becomes his. If I'm not mistaken, it's the tares that are removed from his kingdom. 

[Keras]

On 11/8/2022 at 10:27 AM, Shilohsfoal said:

The two witnesses don't go to all the nations to proclam the kingdom of Jesus. They spend the entire 42 months in Jerusalem tormenting people like revelation says. 

Right, it will be the other 143,998 Witnesses, who will do that.

On 11/8/2022 at 10:27 AM, Shilohsfoal said:

And they are taken out of Christ's kingdom before it becomes his. If I'm not mistaken, it's the tares that are removed from his kingdom. 

They join Jesus in Jerusalem, along with all the other GT martyrs, as His priests and co-rulers of the world.  Revelation 20:4-6

ALL of the 'tares', the ungodly peoples: will be killed at Armageddon. Revelation 20:8. Zechariah 14:12