Did Paul say he was Chief of Sinners?

[Rukkus]

Hello everyone. This is an article we have on our web site and I just wanted to know if anyone can find anything that is biblically untrue in it . . . let me know

Paul wrote to Timothy and said "Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief."

So . . . Was Paul chief of sinners?

First thing I want to consider is the ramifications of this verse if Paul was presently the chief of sinners. People say "See, if Paul, the great apostle who wrote most of the New Testament, was chief of sinners, how much more are we?" That statement doesn't make sense if you think about it. If Paul truly was chief of sinners while he wrote that letter to Timothy, then you wouldn't be more of a sinner than him. He was the chiefest! You wouldn't be able to get any worse than Paul. Chief is the biggest you get! We would all be better off than Paul, if that were the case. Not only that, but you would have to question Paul's salvation because Peter wrote and said . . .

And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

(1Pt 4:18)

On top of that, in the very same chapter that Paul called himself that, he had said earlier that the law was made for sinners (1Tim 1:9). And how could that be if he said that we no longer needed to be under the law (Gal 3:24-25)?

And instead of trying not to sin, we, as Christians, should be as Paul is (Gal 4:12). We should imitate him (1Cor 11:1). But not just in word. Because faith without works is dead (Jms 2:17). Christians should not only be talking, but walking like Paul, chief of sinners.

No one would have any business telling us not to sin. Paul himself, that great apostle, was chief. All of us, no matter how much we sinned, would be doing better than Paul because he was chief of sinners!

What would it do to the Church today if Paul were the chief of sinners in the present tense when he wrote that letter to Timothy? You can see from above, it wouldn't be pretty.

Now, as complicated and difficult as it would be to accept the fact that Paul was chief of sinners, if the Bible said it, we ultimatley would still have to accept it. Even if we didn't understand completely how it could be true. After all, our loyalty to God's Word does not depend on what makes sense to us. We believe because God cannot lie. Whether we understand all of it or not.

So the real question to ask is Does the Bible really say this? Because regardless of how many questions and difficulties it might raise, if the Bible says it, we must accept it.

But I know of no one who truly believes Paul was chief of sinners at the present time when he wrote to Timothy. Yet they continually talk like he was. This whole, "Well, after all, Paul was chief of sinners" mentality that floats around the Church today seems to be one of those gray areas, that no one really understands or can explain. But at the same time, they continue to say it.

So . . . . . Was Paul chief of sinners?

Look at the statement again

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

(1Tim 1:15)

Notice first of all, that Paul actually never did say, "I am chief of sinners." So for starters, 90% of people quote this verse wrong. It doesn't say, "I am chief of sinners." It says "Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief." And the fact that Paul was referring to sinners who were being saved, makes all the difference in the world when we talk about this verse. I'll show you why . . .

Let me start by defining some terminology he uses here. Let's take the first part of it . . .

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners . . .

First, what is a sinner? According to Strong's 268, a sinner is someone who is devoted to sin. Or, someone who is in bondage to sin. But in this passage, something was happening to these sinners. What was it? They were being saved. It says Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners.

Now that we have defined sinner, what does save, mean? In Greek it implies being delivered from, or set free from something (Strong's 4982). So these sinners were being set free, or delivered from something. What were they being delivered from? Well, let's look at other scriptures for more light. Matthew 1:21 . . .

And she shall bring forth a son, and you shall call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Now we know what Jesus would deliver sinners from. This verse shows us that one thing sinners would be delivered and set free from is sin, right? So now that I've pointed these things out, let's read the entire verse again in this light . . .

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save (set free, and deliver) sinners (from their sin); of whom I am chief.

(parenthesis added)

See, Paul wasn't just talking about sinners who would forever be in bondage to their sin. When he says, "Christ Jesus came into the world to save . . ." That part, about being saved applies to Paul just as much as the "sinners" part, right? Yet people don't acknowledge that. For the most part, we have ignored the fact that Paul was talking about sinners being saved and delivered from their sins (because that's what Matthew 1 says He would save us from), and we hold to the sinner part. To interrupt Paul, and pay no attention to why he says Jesus came, is a dangerous stance to take.

Why did Jesus come? Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners! Christ Jesus came into the world to deliver us from our sin! Christ Jesus came into the world to put sin away by the sacrifice of Himself (Heb 9:26)! That's why He came. And it's at this point that Paul says "Of whom I am chief" Chief of sinners? No! He couldn't have been calling himself chief of sinners because Paul wasn't talking about sinners. Paul was talking about sinners being saved from their sins. "Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners." It doesn't say, "Christ Jesus came into the world to leave sinners the way they are, full of sin." But that's the way you hear it, right? The way people quote that verse implies that even though Paul was a Christian, he was still left in his sins, with no deliverance. No, Paul is not making reference to plain old sinners. He's making reference to why Christ came: To deliver us from our sins. And really, if you read the entire context, that's exactly what you see. Paul goes back and recalls his time before he was saved (1Tim 1:12-13), up until the point that God had mercy on him (1Tim 1:16).

So in conclusion, Paul never did call himself chief of sinners. Because he wasn't talking about just sinners. That verse specifically shows that Paul was referring to sinners that were set free and delivered out of sin. And in reference to these, he says "I am chief." Paul had even written to the Corinthian church claiming that he knew of nothing against himself (1Cor 4:4). This proves Paul did not remain a sinner (devoted to sin, and in bondage to it), but that what Jesus came to do, He accomplished (1Tim 1:15).

[Guest His_Love_Slave]

Paul wasn't chief of sinners when he wrote that, he means that he was chief before his conversion.

[yomotalking]

But people sin even after conversion.

[Ovedya]

Rukkus,

You appear to be falling prey to a classic case of assuming something from the Scriptures that really isn't there. In your attempt at expositing Paul's statement in 1 Tim. 1:15 you are making assumptions out of context with the message he is trying to deliver.

To begin with, verse 15 is in context with Paul's message concerning different teachings, which essentially goes from verse 3 to verse 17. In this passage Paul first warns Timothy of those that are teaching differently; he warns of their error in attempting to teach the Law without having intimate knowledge of the Law and its function (vv. 7-10). In verses 11-17 Paul is explaining to Timothy that, despite his previous condition (13) the Lord appointed him to the ministry, having saved him from his former manner of life.

In reading this passage, and especially this verse, you need to take note that Paul is referring to himself as the "foremost" (A more accurate translation of the word, BTW) of sinners not just because of his former sinful condition but also because of his former persecution of the church (Incidentally, writing, "Of whom I am foremost" is the same as writing "I am the foremost")!

In verses 13 Paul includes the word "persecution." Here he is specifically addressing his former persecution of the church. And, contrary to your statement that Christians believe Paul to be the great apostle, this stands in stark contrast to what Paul considered of himself because of his having formerly persecuted the church! In 1 Cor. 15:9 Paul called himself the least among the apostles, and not even fit to be called an apostle because he persecuted the church (cf. Phil. 3:6; Acts 8:1-3; Gal. 1:13).

It was during his persecution of the church that Paul was also one of the most esteemed leaders of Judaism, by the way (Phil 3:5; Acts 23:6; Gal. 1:14). He obviously considered his appointment to such a position to be divine. However, he understood after his conversion that his persecution of the church was out of zeal for the law and pure ignorance (1 Tim. 1:13; cf. Luke 23:34; Acts 3:17).

Therefore, in verses 13-15 Paul's point is that, although he was actively persecuting the church from the standpoint of being an authority (And being blameless according to the Law, BTW), God' showed mercy, grace and loved toward him through Christ Jesus (vv. 14, 16).

So is Paul describing himself as a pattern in these verses? No! Verse 16 says, "Because of this [the sacrifice of Christ, v. 15] I was shown mercy, that in me, the foremost, Jesus Christ might display all His long-suffering for a pattern to those who are to believe on Him unto eternal life." (Emphasis and references added). Finally, verse 17 gives glory and honor to God - Amen!

So it is not Paul that is a pattern! It is the long-suffering of Christ Jesus that is the pattern. Paul is just an example. So Paul here is not pointing to himself at all - he is pointing to Jesus Christ, and specifically, the long-suffering of Christ through Paul's ignorance and his zeal for the law!

This passage of Scripture has absolutely nothing whatever to do with being sinless.

In fact, if anything, it shows us how we can be zealous for our religious ideals, teachings, doctrines, etc. and still actually be damaging the true Body of Christ. However, Christ is long-suffering, full of grace and love, and patient to the uttermost!

[Ovedya]

One more brief point, Rukkus. I just shudder to think that you are putting this on a website without further carefull examination and consideration of your points.

One partcularly damaging point in your article is the following: The logical outcome of you analysis (flawed as it is) is that we must arrive at the conclusion that Paul is the chiefest among persons who were delivered from their sin! However, Paul's very own statements regarding himself in Phil 3 directly contradict this conclusion! Therefore, it cannot be that, in verse 15 Paul was describing himself as being the chiefest among persons who were delivered from their sins. You are simply twisitng this verses to make it arrive at a conclusion you arrived at outside the parameters of the revealed word. Essentially you are violating the whole message that Paul is delivering to Timothy.

[Rukkus]

Ovedya said,

Rukkus,

You appear to be falling prey to a classic case of assuming something from the Scriptures that really isn't there. In your attempt at expositing Paul's statement in 1 Tim. 1:15 you are making assumptions out of context with the message he is trying to deliver.

You'll have to prove this . . .

To begin with, verse 15 is in context with Paul's message concerning different teachings, which essentially goes from verse 3 to verse 17. In this passage Paul first warns Timothy of those that are teaching differently; he warns of their error in attempting to teach the Law without having intimate knowledge of the Law and its function (vv. 7-10). In verses 11-17 Paul is explaining to Timothy that, despite his previous condition (13) the Lord appointed him to the ministry, having saved him from his former manner of life.

I agree.

In reading this passage, and especially this verse, you need to take note that Paul is referring to himself as the "foremost" (A more accurate translation of the word, BTW) of sinners not just because of his former sinful condition but also because of his former persecution of the church (Incidentally, writing, "Of whom I am foremost" is the same as writing "I am the foremost")!

I agree.

In verses 13 Paul includes the word "persecution." Here he is specifically addressing his former persecution of the church. And, contrary to your statement that Christians believe Paul to be the great apostle, this stands in stark contrast to what Paul considered of himself because of his having formerly persecuted the church! In 1 Cor. 15:9 Paul called himself the least among the apostles, and not even fit to be called an apostle because he persecuted the church (cf. Phil. 3:6; Acts 8:1-3; Gal. 1:13).

Well, most Christians I've met still regard Paul as a great apostle, whether he thought he was or not. That's what my statement was based on. I wasn't trying to determine whether he was great or not, simply pointing out that many Christians view him thus.

It was during his persecution of the church that Paul was also one of the most esteemed leaders of Judaism, by the way (Phil 3:5; Acts 23:6; Gal. 1:14). He obviously considered his appointment to such a position to be divine. However, he understood after his conversion that his persecution of the church was out of zeal for the law and pure ignorance (1 Tim. 1:13; cf. Luke 23:34; Acts 3:17).

I agree.

Therefore, in verses 13-15 Paul's point is that, although he was actively persecuting the church from the standpoint of being an authority (And being blameless according to the Law, BTW), God' showed mercy, grace and loved toward him through Christ Jesus (vv. 14, 16).

Well, he makes more points than that. Like the fact that he is chief (or foremost) among sinners who are delivered and set free from sin.

So is Paul describing himself as a pattern in these verses? No! Verse 16 says, "Because of this [the sacrifice of Christ, v. 15] I was shown mercy, that in me, the foremost, Jesus Christ might display all His long-suffering for a pattern to those who are to believe on Him unto eternal life." (Emphasis and references added). Finally, verse 17 gives glory and honor to God - Amen!

So it is not Paul that is a pattern! It is the long-suffering of Christ Jesus that is the pattern. Paul is just an example. So Paul here is not pointing to himself at all - he is pointing to Jesus Christ, and specifically, the long-suffering of Christ through Paul's ignorance and his zeal for the law!

Alright

This passage of Scripture has absolutely nothing whatever to do with being sinless.

Well, part of the problem is your word usage. I didn't use the word "sinless" in the article, therefore for me to try and defend that point would be me defending a point I never made. If you mean 'sinless' as being delivered and set free from sin, then yes, it says so in 1Tim 1:15, Christ Jesus came to deliver and set free sinners (those who are bound to sin) from their sin. That's what it says. Whether you believe it or not I'm not concerned with. I'm concerned with whether the Bible says it or not. That's what I say at the beginning of the article.

In fact, if anything, it shows us how we can be zealous for our religious ideals, teachings, doctrines, etc. and still actually be damaging the true Body of Christ. However, Christ is long-suffering, full of grace and love, and patient to the uttermost!

Alright.

One more brief point, Rukkus. I just shudder to think that you are putting this on a website without further carefull examination and consideration of your points.

Well, any point can be further examined. If all you ever did was examine it, and not share it, no one would ever learn about it, because you're not teaching it. But we examine these things to the best of our ability, then post them, then stay open to further correction on them. This particular article I've changed about 5 times. No major changes, just added a little as we got more light.

One partcularly damaging point in your article is the following: The logical outcome of you analysis (flawed as it is) is that we must arrive at the conclusion that Paul is the chiefest among persons who were delivered from their sin!

How is that flawed? Which part is inaccurate? Paul says Christ came to deliver and set free sinners from their sin, of whom he is chief. Do you disagree with that? If so, why? You need to be specific.

However, Paul's very own statements regarding himself in Phil 3 directly contradict this conclusion!

Not really. This deals with Legal and Vital Sides of Redemption.

Edited October 6, 2005 by Rukkus

[Ovedya]

How is that flawed? Which part is inaccurate? Paul says Christ came to deliver and set free sinners from their sin, of whom he is chief. Do you disagree with that? If so, why? You need to be specific.

I believe I was specific. Paul never makes the argument that he is the foremost among delivered sinners. To have done so would have meant that he was exalting himself above all other delivered sinners, which not only goes against his character, it goes against everything that he stated concerning himself. Paul never viewed himself above any other in any respect.

With regard to your point about deliverance from sin, I think it would be better for you to clarify your argument a bit more. While it is true that we have been delivered from the power of sin - from the bondage of sin - the "vital" (Or as I would term it, the "organic") aspect of our salvation is functioning through the operation of the Spirit to cleanse us from indwelling sin.

[Kabowd]

1. Paul spoke in present tense

2. So are you saying you never sin or are capable of being sinless?

[Rukkus]

Ovedya says . . .

I believe I was specific. Paul never makes the argument that he is the foremost among delivered sinners.

Alright, well let me ask you a question . . . When Paul says "of whom" who is he referring to in that verse?

To have done so would have meant that he was exalting himself above all other delivered sinners, which not only goes against his character, it goes against everything that he stated concerning himself. Paul never viewed himself above any other in any respect.

Well, it's important to remember that the word "save" used in that verse is a verb. It's not an adjective. In other words, it's not a description of the the sinners, just a statement about what was happening to them. so that means The of "of whom" part of 1Tim 1:15 is referring to the 'sinners' part. So Paul did say he was foremost among sinners . . . But also mentions that these sinners were being saved and delivered from sin. Do you see what I'm saying? In other words, to be exact about it, he's not saying "I am foremost when it comes to being delivered from sin." He's saying he's foremost of those sinners that were being delivered from sin . . .

You know . . . The more you get me talking about this the more I wonder if that article is due for some even more changes . . .

[Rukkus]

Alright, I rewrote a part of the article, that I think clears up something you said, Ovedya . . .

----------------------------------------------------------------------

See, Paul wasn't just talking about sinners who would forever be in bondage to their sin. When he says, "Christ Jesus came into the world to save . . ." That part, about being saved applies to Paul just as much as the "sinners" part, right? So was he saying that he was chief of those who are forever bound to sin, with no deliverance? No, he was chief of sinners, but he didn't stay that way. How do we know? Read that verse again. Notice that the sinners that he refers to, were being saved and delivered from sin. Not sinners who remained in their sin. "Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners." It doesn't say, "Christ Jesus came into the world to leave sinners the way they are, full of sin." But that's the way you hear it, right? The way people quote that verse implies that even though Paul was a Christian, he was still left in his sins, with no deliverance. No, Paul is not making reference to plain old sinners. He's making reference to why Christ came: To deliver us from our sins. And really, if you read the entire context, that's exactly what you see. Paul goes back and recalls his time before he was saved (1Tim 1:12-13), up until the point that God had mercy on him (1Tim 1:16).