Does anybody attend a Messianic Jew synogogue?

[JohnD]

38 minutes ago, Slibhin said:

People are born with the inclination to sin or not sin. Original sin is the Christian belief that people are inherently wicked and condemned merely for being born.

Jews do not believe this

Bull!

Yeshayahu 64:

5 And we all have become like one unclean, and like a discarded garment are all our righteous deeds, and we all have withered like a leaf, and our iniquities carry us away like the wind. Tehillim 53: 4 They are all dross; together they have spoiled; no one does good, not even one. Melachim 1 8: 46 If they sin against You, for (there is) no man who does not sin, and You will be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, and their captors will carry them away captive to the land of the enemy, far or near.

[JohnD]

Does Talmud trump Tanakh?

[David1701]

4 hours ago, Slibhin said:

I am very tired from working all night so my response may not be as detailed as normal.

No problem - I was up too late last night as well, and thought that my post was a bit below par, due to being very tired.

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You are not Jewish and have not read it, therefore I am not going to debate it's validity with you.

You are right that I've not read the Talmud; however, the principle remains true that commentaries carry a lot less weight than the inspired word of God.

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Changing the order of the books certainly is a big deal, and even if other versions strive to be more accurate I still see people here quoting inaccurate translations i.e. Lucifer.

Why is changing the order of the books that important?  The content is still all there, and you can read the books in any order you want.

No translation is perfect; and "Lucifer" is not such a terrible translation, if you know what it means (light-bearer: in this case referring, figuratively, to the "morning star" - Venus).  I do agree, however, that "Lucifer" is not the best translation and it's good that modern translations have amended it.

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You and your friends here are claiming the Torah is no longer valid.

No, not exactly.  The Torah is still very useful for teaching purposes; and the Ten Commandments, in particular, are very good for showing people that they are sinful and will be found guilty, in God's sight, if judged by them.

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The only time a "New Covenant" is mentioned is in the context of renewal,  I even posted it above. Nowhere does it say the old one would be invalidated or no longer in force.

The people are renewed, in the New Covenant; so, in that sense, I agree; but, the Tanakh does say that it's a new covenant, unlike the one made previously with Israel.

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Hashem does not issue impossible decrees.

But he does!  Please tell me if you are able to love the Lord your God, with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and your neighbour as yourself, 24/7.  If you can't, then the decree is impossible for you (or anyone else) to keep.

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This is a whole separate topic but we do not believe Jesus is the Messiah or that he qualifies. Hashem says that a person cannot assume responsibility for the sins of another. He also called human sacrifice an abomination. In addition there is no concept in Messianic prophecy that the Messiah is Hashem or would die and come back. In the spirit of not derailing the topic totally I am happy to discuss this in greater detail in another thread.

There are numerous prophecies, in the Tanakh, all fulfilled in Yeshua; but, I agree that it's a huge topic and probably deserves its own thread.

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Pharaoh hardened his own heart several times before the passage in question.

As I mentioned previously, God does not harden the hearts of soft-hearted people (we agree about that); nevertheless, he does harden some people's hearts, and I gave you a quote to prove it.

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G-d at that resolved him to his fate. He did not take a Pharaoh who was ready to let the Jews go and make him hang on. Hashem then allowed him (Pharaoh) to be blind to his (Hashem's) word.

There is much more than mere permission, in the wording of the Tanakh about what the LORD did with Pharaoh.  He did not merely permit Pharaoh to harden his own heart, he explicity says that he would harden Pharaoh's heart.

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People are born with the inclination to sin or not sin. Original sin is the Christian belief that people are inherently wicked and condemned merely for being born.

The expression "yetzer hara" is Jewish, I believe, meaning "the congenital inclination to do evil, by violating God's will".  Can you confirm this?

In any case, the Tanakh clearly shows what fallen mankind is like.

Genesis 8:20,21 (Jewish Translation of the Tanakh)

20 And Noah builded an altar unto HaShem; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt-offerings on the altar.

21 And HaShem smelled the sweet savour; and HaShem said in His heart: 'I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Psalms 14:2,3

14:2 The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.

14:3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

1 Kings 8:46  If they sin against thee, (for there is no man that sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, so that they carry them away captives unto the land of the enemy, far or near;

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Jews do not believe this and we teach that we are all able to choose to do what is right and what is wrong. We all give in at some point or another but Hashem has provided ways to repent and make atonement.

Where does the Tanakh say that everyone is able to do good or evil (N.B. I'm not looking for commandments telling people what to do, which is a different issue)?

Edited November 23, 2022 by David1701
punctuation

[David1701]

18 hours ago, Slibhin said:

If you have not read it and are not a Jew then you are not in a position to have an informed opinion. Period. You don't care about the Talmud, I get it. However I do care.

It is important because is changes the narrative. Kings, Samuel and Chronicles are one book in the Tanakh. In the Old Testament they are divided into two books giving the impression that they are separate narratives.

Repeating yourself does not increase the likelihood that I will think you are correct. Either the Torah is in effect or it is not. Hashem did not say to Moses on Mount Sinai "Here is the law which you cannot follow because you're all awful". He repeatedly stated his expectation that the law was to be followed and never once said he didn't think us capable. Noah, Abraham, Job and others were stated in the Tanakh to be righteous.

In Genesis Pharaoh is on several occasions to have hardened himself before Hashem did a thing. While G-d may have intervened to seal his fate, Pharaoh was the one who set that path. Hashem also wanted to use Egypt as an example to the world. The issue is you stated Hashem purposely hardened people so they would not "go to heaven" and I said he would not do that because it subverts free will. While G-d may have used Pharaoh to serve his purpose he never took control over anyone and forced them onto a path of self condemnation.

I am fully aware of what yetzer hara means. It is not some magical force controlling us. We are all born with the capacity to sin or not sin and all people have some degree of inclination to do so. The mere thought is not the sin it is the action. We believe our human nature is a part of G-d's creation. You believe we are born irredeemably evil and awful, which is not and has never been a Jewish belief.

Um, that's not how it works. You show me where Hashem says we are not. Numerous people through the Tanakh were called good and/or righteous in his eyes.

1) I didn't say that I don't care about the Talmud.  I said that commentaries carry far less weight than the inspired word of God.  This principle is self-evident.  I don't need to read a commentary to know that the principle is true.

2) It's true that the Kings, Samuel and Chronicles have each been divided into two books, in most Bibles; however, the content is the same; and, anyone who reads them will realise that the narrative is continuous.

3) Noah, Abraham, et al, were righteous by faith in the LORD.  Their good works flowed from their relationship with the LORD.

People are called "good" or "righteous", in the Tanakh, because of their faith in God and in the Messiah to come.  Good works are a consequence of that loving, trusting relationship.

4) I've already agreed with you that God does not harden soft-hearted people, and that Pharaoh, specifically, was already a hard-hearted man when God hardened him further.

5) I did not claim that "yetzer hara" was a "magical force"!  It is, however, inherent to all of fallen mankind, and it explains why everyone sins.

6) I have already shown you where the Tanakh says that fallen man is not naturally righteous, in several places.

Here's one, as reminder.

Gen. 8:20,21 (Jewish Translation)

20 And Noah builded an altar unto HaShem; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt-offerings on the altar.

21 And HaShem smelled the sweet savour; and HaShem said in His heart: 'I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

7) The LORD is our righteousness

Jeremiah 23:5,6 (Jewish Translation)

23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

---The LORD is our righteousness.  We must not claim to be righteous in ourselves, because it is untrue, and because it is boasting.

[JohnD]

17 hours ago, Slibhin said:

3. There was no Messianic prophecy in the times of Noah, Abraham, Moses etc... Hashem even said they do what is right in his eyes and follow his laws. He did not say they were righteous because they merely had faith. Hashem expects you to do what is right and do your best to be a good person. This is not my mere opinion this is what he has said himself. The idea that one is righteous just because they had the correct set of thoughts in their head is ridiculous to me.

Messianic prophecy in garden Eden (Genesis 3:15)

It was under the judges that people did what was right in their own eyes.

Chavakuk 2:

4 Behold, it is puffed up-his soul is not upright within him, but the righteous shall live by his faith.

Micah 6:

8 He has told you, O man, what is good, and what the Lord demands of you; but to do justice, to love loving-kindness, and to walk discreetly with your God.

 

[ayin jade]

Genesis 22 is Messianic prophecy. That was with abraham

[ayin jade]

3 minutes ago, Slibhin said:

How is it a messianic prophecy?

Besides the image of Abraham about to sacrifice his son, Abraham also states that God would provide the lamb. After that Abraham sacrifices a ram, not lamb. Jesus is called the lamb of God, and He died at Passover. 

Im really tired atm, so I may not be explaining it as well as I should. I have a bunch of obligations this week (relatives coming in, including one from overseas) but I would be happy to start a thread on old testament Messianic prophecies. 

[David1701]

On 11/25/2022 at 7:00 AM, Slibhin said:

1. I don't know how to make this any clearer. The Talmud is not additional rules to the Torah, it is explanations and rulings based on it. For example when the Torah says don't work on Shabbat, the Talmud will define what does and does not qualify as work.

And, as I've posted several times now, such commentary is not infallible and is inferior to the inspired Tanakh.

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2. If Hashem gave those books as one narrative, who are we to divide it?

Who are we to add chapters and verses?  Who are we to add spaces between the words, or punctuation?  Who are we to translate from one language to another, when such translation will, inevitably, be imperfect?

Let's not pick nits unnecessarily.

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3. There was no Messianic prophecy in the times of Noah, Abraham, Moses etc...

The whole of the Tanakh, in one way or another, points to the Messiah.

The ark was a type of the Messiah.  Those who are "in him", through faith, are saved from the judgment on sin coming on the whole world.

Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his son of promise, was a type of God sacrificing his one-of-a-kind Son, on the Cross, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.

Moses was a type of the Messiah, regarding the prophetic element of his ministry.

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Hashem even said they do what is right in his eyes and follow his laws. He did not say they were righteous because they merely had faith. Hashem expects you to do what is right and do your best to be a good person. This is not my mere opinion this is what he has said himself. The idea that one is righteous just because they had the correct set of thoughts in their head is ridiculous to me.

Faith is not mere mental assent to truths.  Faith is complete trust in and reliance upon God and the Messiah.  This faith works by love, and results in good works.

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5. and 6. (saying basically the same thing) Human beings sin because they are not perfect and obviously sin starts in the heart. However it is the action, not the thought that is the sin. We are born in this world pure and it is our actions that make us impure.

Evil thoughts are just as sinful as the actions that spring from them.  The immediate consequences of evil thoughts might not be as bad, but the motives and desires are.

Proverbs 24:9 (Jewish Translation of the Tanakh) The thought of foolishness is sin: and the scorner is an abomination to men.

Jeremiah 6:19 Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto my words, nor to my law, but rejected it.

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7. I believe it is proverbs that says to let other people praise you, never do it yourself. So we agree it's boastful to claim to be righteous, especially since one may not be. Two in one day!

Okay, that's good.

Now, a question for you: if you died tomorrow, and God judged you by the Ten Commandments, would you be innocent or guilty?

[David1701]

On 11/28/2022 at 10:47 AM, Slibhin said:

Hashem does not judge is by our perfection. We are judged by our actions. let's examine your question:

First Commandment (Exodus 20:2)

I am the Lord Your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

Yes, Hashem is my G-d.

Is He?

1 John 2:22,23 (KJV)

 22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
  23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [but] he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

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Second Commandment (Exodus 20:3-6)

You shall have no other gods beside Me. You shall not make for yourself any graven image, nor any manner of likeness, of any thing that is heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them, nor serve them, for I, the Lord Your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.

I have never committed idolatry.

 

Idolatry is putting anything in your heart before God.  God has sent the Messiah and you are rejecting Him, putting your traditions before God.  That is idolatry.

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Third Commandment (Exodus 20:7)

You shall not take the name of the Lord Your God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that takes His name in vain.

Never done this.

 

Yes, you have.  Every time you claim that God's one-of-a-kind Son, the Lord Jesus Christ is not the Messiah, nor God manifest in the flesh, not the Son of God, you are taking God's name in vain.

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Fourth Commandment (Exodus 20:8-11)

Remember the Sabbath, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work; but the seventh day is a Sabbath unto the Lord Your God, in it you shall not do any manner of work, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your man-servant, nor your maid-servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger that is within your gates; for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested on the seventh day. Wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and made it holy.

Ehh... Depends on how you view cell phone use.

 

The fulfilment of the fourth commandment, is resting from our own works, in the Lord Jesus Christ, through faith in Him.  He is our Sabbath rest.

The physical type is a picture; and we need a day of rest from work, to focus on the Lord; but, the spiritual reality that the Sabbath day points to, is far more important.

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Fifth Commandment (Exodus 20:12)

Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord God gives you.

I do this.

 

That's good; however, these commandments all point to spiritual truths, above and beyond the literal. 

Our heavenly Father has commanded all men everwhere to repent, which necessarily includes trusting in the only Saviour - the Messiah, the Lord Jesus.  Honouring our heavenly Father means doing this; and not doing it greatly dishonours him.

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Sixth Commandment (Exodus 20:13)

You shall not murder.

I have never killed anyone.

 

Most people haven't; however, the heart that calls Jesus a liar, claiming that it is blasphemy for him to say that He is I AM, is a heart that hates him (this does not have to mean grinding teeth and shaking fists) and a heart of hatred is just one step from murder.

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Seventh Commandment (Exodus 20:13)

You shall not commit adultery.

I have only ever done the deed with my husband.

 

Good; although, the thought of wickedness is sin, so many people have committed this sin, without doing anything physical.

Also, there is the matter of spiritual adultery, to which this law points.  Faithfulness to HaShem, includes faithfulness to his Son - Yeshua HaMeshiach, who is God manifest in the flesh, the great I AM, Emmanuel - God with us.

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Eighth Commandment (Exodus 20:13)

You shall not steal.

I have never stolen. For real.

 

Again, that's good; however, you are stealing from the glory that belongs to the Messiah, by rejecting the only one who shed his blood and died on the cross, then rose from the dead, to save sinners.

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Ninth Commandment (Exodus 20:13)

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

Ehh... white lies are a grey area. Jews have always been conflicted on if white lies that spare feelings or save lives are acceptable.

 

What about bearing false witness against the Messiah, who is the Son of God and Son of Man?

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Tenth Commandment (Exodus 20:14)

You shall not covet your neighbor’s house, nor his wife, his man-servant, his maid-servant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.

I can honestly say I have never desired my neighbour's house, spouse, his servants, his ox nor his donkey.

So what does  it mean to covet? Coveting doesn't mean just thinking "I wish I had that". Coveting means to lust after something and take steps to acquire it. You want your neighbour's car so you put plans in place to get it from him other then to pay him. Sin starts in the heart and leads to sinful action which why it is a sin to lust after something that isn't yours.

 

You can covet, without taking steps to acquire the object of the craving; although,  I'm not saying that you have done this.

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Have I ever sinned? Absolutely. Am I worried I'll go to hell because I am not perfect? No, because I don't believe in hell...

You will, if you end up there, by which time it will be too late.

Luke 16:19-31 (KJV)

  19  ¶ There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 
  20  And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 
  21  And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 
  22  And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 
  23  And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 
  24  And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 
  25  But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 
  26  And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, thatwould comefrom thence. 
  27  Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house: 
  28  For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 
  29  Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 
  30  And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 
  31  And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. 

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Hashem never said I had to be perfect. I just have to try to be, and sincerely repent and make amends when I fall short. G-d is just, merciful, fair and most of all forgiving.

God being good and just, along with man's sin, is man's greatest problem!

The Tanakh says that, without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins.  The Old Covenant animal sacrifices covered people's sins temporarily (which is why they had to keep being repeated, over and over again), but they could never take away sin.  Those sacrifices ceased long ago.  That is why a Man had to shed his blood and die (a sinless, perfect Man) for the sins of mankind, to take away those sins, not merely cover them temporarily.

Man is not allowed to sacrifice man; but God is, and he did.  Only this was no ordinary man; this was God-and-man, in one Person.  God took upon himself, in the form of perfect man, the sins that we committed, and the punishments we deserved, so that he could be just, and the justifier of the one who trusts in the Lord Yeshua HaMashiach.

[David1701]

13 hours ago, Slibhin said:

And you were doing so well. Trying to make it as if the ten commandments are all about Jesus is so ridiculous I don't even know how to respond.

No one has proven to me he even is the Messiah. When my husband was alive I very heavily considered converting, but I cannot reconcile the claims about Jesus with what the Tanakh and the Talmud say. Yes, many of the Messianic prophecies you claim Jesus fulfills come from the Talmud which you simultaneously tell me to ignore.

Here is the entirety of Ezekiel 18: (I bolded the parts I especially want attention paid to)

1 And the word of the Lord came to me, saying:

2 "What do you mean that you use this parable over the land of Israel, saying, 'The fathers have eaten sour grapes and the children's teeth are set on edge'?

3 As truly as I live, says the Lord G-d, you shall no longer use this parable in Israel.

4 Behold, all souls are Mine. Like the soul of the father, like the soul of the son they are Mine; the soul that sins, it shall die.

5 So a man who is righteous and practices justice and righteousness,

6 And does not eat [offerings of meals] on the mountains, and does not lift up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel; neither defiles his fellow man's wife nor approaches a woman in her period of separation,

7 And wrongs no man; what has been pledged for a debt he returns; [he] has committed no robbery, gives his bread to the hungry, and clothes the naked with garments,

8 Does not lend on interest, nor does he take any increase on a loan, keeps his hand back from wrong, executes true judgment between man and man,

9 Has walked in My statutes, and has kept My ordinances to deal truly-he is a righteous man; he shall surely live, says the Lord G-d.

10 If he beget a profligate son, a shedder of blood, and he commits upon his brother any of these [crimes].

11 And he does not do all these [good deeds], but has even eaten [offerings of a meal] to the mountains and defiled his fellow man's wife;

12 Wronged the poor and the needy, committed robberies, did not return pledges, lifted up his eyes to the idols, committed abomination;

13 Gave out on interest, accepted increase on loans -shall he then live? He shall not live! He has done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood falls back on himself!

14 And behold, if he beget a son, who sees all the sins of his father which he has done, and sees and does not do likewise;

15 He did not eat on the mountains and did not lift up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, did not defile his fellow man's wife,

16 Wronged no man; did not retain any pledge, and committed no robbery; his bread he gave to the hungry and the naked he covered with clothes;

17 From the poor he kept his hand back, interest and increase he did not take; My ordinances he kept, in My laws did he walk-he shall not die for the sins of his father, he shall surely live.

18 [But] his father, because he illegally suppressed, committed robbery against his brother and did what is not good among his people, behold, he shall die for his iniquity.

19 Yet you say, "Why does the son not bear with the sin of the father?" But the son has practiced justice and righteousness, he has kept all My laws and he carries them out; he shall surely live.

20 The soul that sins, it shall die; a son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, and a father shall not bear the iniquity of the son; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

21 And if the wicked man repent of all his sins that he has committed and keeps all My laws and executes justice and righteousness, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

22 All his transgressions that he has committed shall not be remembered regarding him: through his righteousness that he has done he shall live.

23 Do I desire the death of the wicked? says the Lord G-d. Is it not rather in his repenting of his ways that he may live?

24 And when the righteous repents of his righteousness and does wrong and does like all the abominations that the wicked man did, shall he live? All his righteous deeds that he has done shall not be remembered; in his treachery that he has perpetrated and in his sin that he has sinned, in them shall he die.

25 Yet you say, 'The way of the Lord is not right!' Hear now, O house of Israel: Is it My way that is not right? Is it not rather your ways that are not right?

26 When a righteous man repents of his righteousness and does wrong and dies on that account; for the wrong that he has done he should die.

27 And when a wicked man repents of his wickedness that he has done, and does justice and righteousness, he will keep his soul alive.

28 He will see and repent of all his transgressions that he has committed-he shall surely live; he shall not die.

29 And yet the house of Israel say, 'The way of the Lord is not right!' Is it My ways that are not right, O house of Israel? Is it not rather your ways that are not right?

30 Therefore, every man according to his ways I will judge you, O house of Israel, says the Lord G-d: repent and cause others to repent of all your transgressions, and it will not be a stumbling block of iniquity for you.

31 Cast away from yourselves all your transgressions whereby you have transgressed, and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit, and why should you die, O house of Israel!

32 For I do not desire the death of him who dies, says the Lord G-d: so turn away and live!"

Unless you are calling Hashem a liar this blatantly contradicts the majority of what you just posted. It also plainly says we are judged based on our actions. A man cannot assume the sins of another.

Ezekiel 18 is about Israel, under law.  The covenant of law (works) was all about "Do this and I will bless you; do that and I will curse you.".  The problem with this is that no-one keeps the law perfectly, which means that we are all guilty before God.

God made a temporary solution, in the form of the shedding of blood, by animal sacrifices; however, as I mentioned, these sacrifices had to be repeated, again and again, because they were only a temporary covering for sin and could not take it away.

These sacrifices ceased, many centuries ago, soon after the Messiah shed his blood and died on the cross, as the perfect Lamb of God.

A fallen man cannot take upon himself the sins of another; but, the perfect, sinless Son of God could and did.

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Hashem calls human sacrifice an abomination. That's G-d's own words and I cannot reconcile the two. Hashem also said the Torah is everlasting... meaning to the end of time. You will never convince me he went back on his word. 

Any of us carrying out a human sacrifice would be an abomination; but God is not man; and the Man sacrificed was the sinless Son of God.  Isaiah 53 is largely about this substitution.

The two sacrificed goats symbolised this substitution as well.  One had its blood shed and was killed, while the other (the scapegoat) was driven outside the camp, to bear the reproach of the sins of God's people.

Jesus was crucified outside the city walls of Jerusalem (outside the camp), where he shed his blood and died for the sins of God's people.

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I don't care what the bible says, because I don't believe in it. Yes I am on a Christian forum (mostly because it's too much fun at the moment), but I am still a Jew and I believe what I believe. We don't believe in hell, we don't believe in the devil and we don't believe in the bible. Threatening me with those things is meaningless.

I'm not threatening you; I'm warning you, because I don't want you to go to hell, to be tormented along with the devil.  Both are real, whether you believe in them or not.

You believe the Tanakh, and so do we.  We also believe the New Testament; but, almost all the NT teachings are also found in the Tanakh, albeit sometimes not so developed and not so clear.

I'm not interested in debate as such, I just want to get the message of the New Covenant to you, so that you might believe and be saved.

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Yes, many of the Messianic prophecies you claim Jesus fulfills come from the Talmud which you simultaneously tell me to ignore.

Not one of the Messianic prophecies originates in the Talmud.  They all come from the Tanakh; and there are many of them, sometimes very specific.

Psalm 110:1  (Jewish Translation of the Tanakh) The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

You believe that the Messiah is a descendant of King David (as do we); well, since this is true, why does David here call him "Lord", since he is his descendant?

Here is big clue:

Isaiah 7:14 (Jewish Translation of the Tanakh) Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Immanuel (an alternate spelling of Emmanuel) means "God with us".

Here is a link to the Jewish translation I used, in case you think that it's a Gentile translation.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/yeshayahu-isaiah-chapter-7