Reconciling 6 Days with 13.7 Billion Years

[BeyondET]

6 hours ago, LiveWire said:

If this is true, then creating a microwave spectrum is an outright lie.  It's based off Center point of Big Bang/aka Center of Universe and then spreads outward.

 

Glad, you proven Science is lying.

The Cosmic Microwave Background wasn't created by man. Inventors have created instruments to observe and record it.

CMB isn't based on a center of the universe but it's everywhere. You may have seen some photos rendered that looks like a center but that's a theory they all are. Even the big bang is loosing its glimmer.

Edited July 4, 2023 by BeyondET

[Guest]

Science indicates multiple mass extinction events in Earth's history as proven using several scientific methods. Genesis 1:1 to 2:23 is Jewish poetry, not meant to be a quantum science primer or physics textbook. Much of modern science is beyond the mindset of the early Jewish scholars.

[Retrobyter]

On 7/2/2023 at 1:50 PM, DeighAnn said:

And here we are NOT agreeing once again with WHAT ISN'T WRITTEN, you in favor of an explanation that has NOTHING to do with the actual words GOD used.  Ever heard of TYPES of the past for explanations of the future?  nothing new under the sun???

Now, IF you would have put it forth as a PROPHECY and NOT have put it forth as something HE HAD EXPERIENCED, 

YOUR

"Sorry, sister, but one MUST read Jeremiah through, particularly in a translation he or she understands. You see, Jeremiah was an EYE-WITNESS to the destruction of Jerusalem and the First Temple Solomon built. It was DEVASTATING to him to watch!"

wouldn't be just more of YOU TELLING ME WHAT YOU THINK.

It's NOT just about "what I think." That is HISTORY! One can validate that for himself or herself by simply Googling "Weeping Prophet."

Wikipedia will give you ...

Jeremiah[a] (c. 650 – c. 570 BC),[3] also called Jeremias[4] or the "weeping prophet",[5] was one of the major prophets of the Hebrew Bible. According to Jewish tradition, Jeremiah authored the Book of Jeremiah, the Books of Kings and the Book of Lamentations,[6] with the assistance and under the editorship of Baruch ben Neriah, his scribe and disciple.

In addition to proclaiming many prophecies, the Book of Jeremiah goes into detail regarding the prophet's private life, his experiences, and his imprisonment.[7]

Jeremiah is an important figure in both Judaism and Christianity. His words are read in synagogues as part of the Haftara and he is quoted in the New Testament.[8] Islam also regards Jeremiah as a prophet and his narrative is recounted in Islamic tradition.[9]

 

For more, see Jeremiah. One cannot learn everything about Jeremiah from the Bible, although we get a great deal of his information from the Bible, both in Jeremiah and in Lamentations, written by Jeremiah.

One will NOT fully understand the prophecy by Jeremiah without looking at Lamentations, btw. Read these books, if at all possible, in a single sitting! They are the tears of a Jew who suffered the destruction of his nation and his beloved Temple! One should put himself or herself in his place while reading, and imagine how heart-broken he was! One might just shed a tear or two himself or herself!

On 7/2/2023 at 1:50 PM, DeighAnn said:

You can't help BUT ALWAYS 'seating' yourself in the upper rooms, can you? 

This should be reported, but I'm feeling generous this morning. Watch your tone, please.

On 7/2/2023 at 1:50 PM, DeighAnn said:

Once I get past your greeting and the first couple lines, I go straight to doubting anything that may follow as to 'a deeper truth' since you can't seem to master and implement the most basic 'know them by their fruit' because you immediately go from greeting to being a hypocrite of it. 

Don't say peace and then call me stupid aka "particularly in a translation he or she understands".  Makes me think of the donkey who could see but the rider being blind.

I wasn't calling you or anyone else "stupid." Don't put things on yourself. I was saying that one needs to be clear about what one is reading, and that it doesn't matter (too much) which version one might use to feel comfortable with the text. I'm currently up in the Blue Ridge of North Carolina, up among the "KJV Only" folks, but I know that the Bible TRANSCENDS the version, and that God PROTECTS His Word in translation. I'm not saying that English versions don't have problems; they do. Every one of them, including the KJV, has faults. But, one can be "saved" through almost ANY translation!

On 7/2/2023 at 1:50 PM, DeighAnn said:

 What happened to the famous WORD FOR WORD explanation with definitions?  Not convenient for these verses?

To get the gist of the context, one must use a language with which most readers are familiar, such as English. Now, if everyone SPOKE and READ Hebrew, there wouldn't be such a problem.

But, my "famous WORD FOR WORD explanation," as you call it, could be done by ANYONE if he or she would take the time to learn it, but IT TAKES TIME to write it all out! If I wasn't a fairly fast typist, I probably wouldn't even attempt it. I do my best, and I'm sure it's not perfect. However, one must UNDERSTAND the fundamental historical and grammatical meaning of a text before one goes off into the murky waters of types and allegorical ("spiritual," falsely so-called) thinking. BTW, who determines "what means what?" And, many people mix metaphors and allegories from unrelated passages! That's NOT biblical! That's CONFUSION! And, we ALL know who is the author of confusion!

On 7/2/2023 at 1:50 PM, DeighAnn said:

ALL the earth didn't become formless and void, the city and temple were destroyed 

It was much more than just "the city and temple" that were destroyed. All the towns and villages on the whole Land were destroyed, from Dan to Beer-Sheba! The Hebrew word "'erets" (אֶרֶץ) is a word that means "LAND!" It can refer to the "soil" of that land, the "earth," but it almost NEVER means "the whole planet!" Context is important! It keeps us on track with what the author was trying to tell us. The phrase, "erets Yisra'eel" means the "Land of Israel." It does NOT mean "the EARTH of Israel," unless you WANT the whole earth - the planet - to belong to Israel!

So, "all the earth,"found in Jeremiah 4:20, which is the Hebrew phrase "kaal haa'aarets," really means "all the LAND," and in the context, we understand that this "LAND" was specifically the "Land of Israel."

One should NOT think that "all" is always all-inclusive! Context may restrict the word to a particular set of things or a particular place upon the earth, for instance, "all the red balls in the room." One must learn what dichotomistic thinking is, and try to avoid it. Not everything should be seen as a dichotomy! It's not always an "either ... or" situation, or a "black and white" situation. There are also shades of gray and colors! Beyond, "sinner and saint" or "the justified" and "the unjust," which are valid dichotomies, the rest of the world is not so "black and white!"

In the old movie about "the Wizard of Oz," it's the difference between Dorothy's time in Kansas, and the time in the Land of Oz! The moment that she landed in Oz and walked out the door of her house, they went from black-and-white photography to COLOR!

The Greek word "gee" ("γῆ"), pronounced "gay", is like "'erets." It means the "land" or the "soil," although it can also refer to ALL the "lands" in an area or all the "lands" of the planet "earth," and the word can also refer to THE "Land" of Israel.

An example of this is found in Matthew 24:30:

Matthew 24:29-31 (KJV)

29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

The Greek of the above phrase underlined is "pasai hai fulai tees gees" ("πᾶσαι αἱ φυλαὶ τῆς γῆς"), but the word "fulai" is the nominative, feminine, plural of "fulee" ("φυλή"):

5443 fulee (phulé) φυλή, ῆς, ἡ (foo-lay'). From fuoo (phuó) (compare phullon); an offshoot, i.e. Race or clan:
-- kindred, tribe.

5453 fuoo (phuó) φύω (foo'-o). A primary verb; probably originally, to "puff" or blow, i.e. To swell up; but only used in the implied sense, to germinate or grow (sprout, produce), literally or figuratively:
-- spring (up).

5444 fullon (phullon) φύλλον, ου, τό (fool'-lon). From the same as fulee (phulé), a sprout, i.e. Leaf:
-- leaf.

The word is similar to our words "family" and "tribe." So, the phrase "all the tribes of the earth" could also be rendered, "all the tribes of the LAND," or "all the families of the LAND!" Indeed, Yeeshuwa` was quoting Zechariah 12:12:

Zechariah 12:10-14 (KJV)

10 "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced,"

and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. 11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon. 12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart;
the family of the house of DAVID apart, and their wives apart;
the family of the house of NATHAN apart, and their wives apart; 
13 The family of the house of LEVI apart, and their wives apart;
the family of SHIMEI apart, and their wives apart; 
14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.

And, THIS is why they will mourn for Him when He comes the second time! These are resurrected family members who are in Yeeshuwa` lineage. THEY will see that He - God's Messiah - was pierced by their other great ... grandchildren! If they only had one son, then they will mourn for Him as an only son, their only son, who was Yeeshuwa's ancestor. If they had two or more sons in their immediate family, then they will mourn for Him as their firstborn son, their heir who was Yeeshua`s ancestor!

And we know this is so because THESE SAME FOUR NAMES are listed in this same order (reversed) in the genealogy of Yeeshuwa` in Luke 3!

Luke 3:23-31 (KJV)

23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, (step-father, Mary's husband)
which was the son of Heli, (grandfather, Mary's father)
24 Which was the son of Matthat,  (great grandfather, Mary's grandfather)
which was the son of Levi,  (great, great grandfather)
which was the son of Melchi, (3 "great's")
which was the son of Janna, (4 "great's")
which was the son of Joseph, ...
25 Which was the son of Mattathias,
which was the son of Amos,
which was the son of Naum,
which was the son of Esli,
which was the son of Nagge, 
26 Which was the son of Maath,
which was the son of Mattathias,
which was the son of SEMEI, (13 "great's")
which was the son of Joseph,
which was the son of Juda, 
27 Which was the son of Joanna,
which was the son of Rhesa,
which was the son of Zorobabel,
which was the son of Salathiel,
which was the son of Neri, 
28 Which was the son of Melchi,
which was the son of Addi,
which was the son of Cosam,
which was the son of Elmodam,
which was the son of Er, 
29 Which was the son of Jose,
which was the son of Eliezer,
which was the son of Jorim,
which was the son of Matthat,
which was the son of LEVI, (30 "great's")
30 Which was the son of Simeon,
which was the son of Juda,
which was the son of Joseph,
which was the son of Jonan,
which was the son of Eliakim, 
31 Which was the son of Melea,
which was the son of Menan,
which was the son of Mattatha,
which was the son of NATHAN, (39 "great's")
which was the son of DAVID, (40 "great's")
 

Thus, they were all alive together at the same time! That means this happens AFTER the Resurrection!

On 7/2/2023 at 1:50 PM, DeighAnn said:

It wasn't SUDDENLY, like FIERCE anger from GOD it was SLOW like an army of men
It wasn't in a moment, it took years
The heavens retained their light the whole-time, the sun moon and stars kept shining every day and night, smoke or not
the mountains did not 'tremble',
and there were MEN left...JEREMIAH being one of them, wasn't he?

and as for birds, where the carcasses are...THAT IS HOW IT WORKS in this flesh world

Well, if one feels that way, then one shouldn't use Jeremiah's book to support some pet theory! That is NOT what his book is about!

On 7/2/2023 at 1:50 PM, DeighAnn said:

Now, if I were reading it as a history book, and using a bunch of profane knowledge based upon a bunch of profane history books written by a bunch of men, then maybe, JUST maybe I might 'buy' that explanation

 I am sure there are others who ALSO believe GOD GOT EVERY WORD WRONG... I see a 'thumbs up' by 'the theory of evolution' already. 

I'm coming to the realization that one could be misled by the change to a SINGLE WORD in English - the word "PROFANE." Originally, the English word simply meant "common" or "every-day speech," the language of a person "before-Temple."

Today, the word has become,

profane | prəˈfān | 

adjective 

1 relating or devoted to THAT WHICH IS NOT SACRED OR BIBLICAL; SECULAR RATHER THAN RELIGIOUS: a talk that tackled topics both sacred and profane. 
• (of a person) not initiated into religious rites or any esoteric knowledge: he was an agnostic, a profane man. 

2 (of a person or their behavior) NOT RESPECTFUL OF ORTHODOX RELIGIOUS PRACTICE; IRREVERENT: desecration of the temple by profane adolescents. 
• (of language) BLASPHEMOUS OR OBSCENE. 

verb [with object] 

treat (something sacred) with IRREVERENCE OR DISRESPECT: it was a serious matter to profane a tomb. 

DERIVATIVES 

profanation | ˌpräfəˈnāSH(ə)n | noun 
profanely | prəˈfānlē | adverb 
profaneness | prəˈfā(n)nəs | noun 
profaner noun 

ORIGIN late Middle English (in the sense ‘heathen’): from Old French prophane, from Latin profanus ‘outside the temple, not sacred’, from pro- (from Latin pro ‘before’) + fanum ‘temple’.

Can you see how the term has changed over the years? Now it doesn't mean just "common" or "secular"; it has taken on the derogatory definition of "religious disrespect, irreverance, blasphemous, and obscene!" This is because of the dichotomy induced on the public because of the "higher plane" of the RCC priesthood!

This incorrect usage of the word was derived from the days of Chaucer when he wrote The Canterbury Tales. It was a time (thanks to the old Roman Catholic Church) when the people of Europe were divided into two classes, practically castes: One was either part of the laity or they were members of the priesthood in the RCC. There were no other positions.

In the Bible, "profane" doesn't mean "evil"; it means "COMMON" or "SECULAR!"

On 7/2/2023 at 1:50 PM, DeighAnn said:

I am not going to tell you how you 'MUST' read it...that is what the Holy Spirit is for...and I won't tell you, you are incorrect either...just in case it is not 'a manmade explanation' only but a Holy Spirit led one...as I never want to blaspheme what the Holy Spirit puts forth by calling it "wrong" especially not doing so solely based on my current understanding.  That is a bunch of judgment I don't want to come at me come the judgment seat of Christ...I'll leave that to the 'world educated' preachers and pastors presently leading the EXODUS from the churches today because they can't seem to quite understand 

demanding a blind faith in the earth only being a couple thousand years old...BECAUSE THEY SAID SO when souls have their very own set of EYES and the words of God in their own hands.  Not much different than those in the days of Jesus when HE was bringing forth TRUTHS who couldn't get past themselves and their UPPER ROOM mentalities, unable to take them in

not to mention TRYING TO STOP WHAT WAS BEING POURED OUT... we have those same things taking place today.  They didn't even see their MESSIAH.  Today they don't see the KNOWLEDGE being opened up.  

what was will be again....and here we are

Do you know of anyone doing their very best to STOP any 'fishermen' from coming forth?  I do. 

What does it take to 'buy that field'?  Are you willing to SELL all you have?  I was.  I did.  


We SEE the words of God from very different perspectives.

So, do you have any answers to any of these questions through YOUR CURRENT BELIEFS?  I am not asking for MANS explanations but GODS WORDS themselves, IF POSSIBLE, since you claim the ones I do, are incorrect.  




WHERE did the SERPENT come from?  How did he get to be 'MORE SUBTIL'? 

When did that happen?

Why DIDN'T God ask him a SINGLE QUESTION?

When did the dragon cast a third part of the stars to the earth?

Why was the earth SITTING in darkness before God said 'let there be light'? 

 When did He SPEAK the earth into existence BEFORE THAT moment?

How LONG had it been sitting in darkness? 

Why was it tohu sitting there in the darkness? 

Had it been established in the darkness? 

And if it was, how did the sons of God and the MOURNING STARS know when to SING together, or all the sons of God to shout for joy?

OR did GOD USE ALL THE WRONG WORDS THERE TOO, AND DID HE REALLY MEAN SOMETHING ENTIRELY DIFFERENT, LIKE WHAT WAS PUT FORTH IN JEREMIAH?

And what kind of 'flesh' were those mourning stars and sons of God 'made of'? 
 

When was THE DAY the 'the anointed cherub' THAT COVERETH' who sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty and in Eden the garden of God with every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in  created???

When was he upon the holy mountain of God walking up and down in the midst of the stones of fire?

Knowing he was 'perfect in thy ways from the day he was created' till iniquity was found in him' How long do you think THAT lasted? A year, a thousand years, a million?  

We KNOW it happened because of "the multitude of thy merchandise"

WHICH "filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned" and caused God to "cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God"

and we know his FATE because God said

"and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee".

We also know he "defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick"

WHEN did all that happen?  

And most importantly, what DID GOD DO at that point?



 WAS, is, and IS TO COME.  







IS - presently HAS   A JERUSALEM and ISRAEL 



IS TO COME -  WILL HAVE A NEW JERUSALEM AND ISRAEL


WAS.


Any CHANCE you see a JERUSALEM with sons of God AND mourning stars disobeying and being STUPID and falling into deception?


For the sake of argument, let's say there was. 

WOULD THAT be written in words like

3And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

 3605. kol 
Strong's Concordance
kol: the whole, all
Original Word: כֹּל
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: kol
Phonetic Spelling: (kole)
Definition: the whole, all

And those are my reasons for not being able to believe what was put forth and why.  I'll stick with GOD USES THE WORDS GOD WANTS TO CONVEY HIS TRUTH and doesn't use WORDS that don't.  

I use the words of God to speak on the words of God, not the words and knowledge of men TO EXPLAIN the words of God.  But I do understand why you wish I would quit using the Interlinear, Lexicon and Hebrew and Greek and go to some of 'the translations' instead....Brother
 

I'm not avoiding these questions; in fact, I've already answered some of them. I'm just too weary to continue tonight. It's almost 5:30 a.m!

[FreeGrace]

11 hours ago, BeyondET said:

Dryland is a form so are seas. In the beginning earth had neither thus formless and void of dryland or seas.

You yourself mentioned a most common use and a less a common use, now it can never be used, yea right.

I'm not sure what you are thinking about, but whatever it is, isn't even close to what I have posted.  All the details in Genesis 1 are about the 6 day restoration of the earth.  You can believe whatever else you would like to.

However, if you do, you have to face the issues that the accepted translation of v.2 creates, and you haven't addressed or explained.

1.  contradiction with Isa 45:18, which plainly says that God didn't create the earth tohu.  But the "accepted" translation says God created the earth and it was tohu.

2.  The earth HAS apparent age.  This is indisputable.  So explain why God created the universe/earth with apparent age, which would be a deception.

3.  Heb 11:3 refers to Genesis 1 and the Greek word is 'katartizo', a word for restoration.

4.  Prove that the translators were correct to use one of THE LEAST common translations of the verb form of 'hayah' in v.2, but for the rest of the OT, 59% of the time translators translated that exact same verb form as "became/become". 

[FreeGrace]

11 hours ago, BeyondET said:

Was earth habitable before the wasteland? To become unhabitable is to say it was habitable before.

Well, there's a clue, right?

Ezek 28-

12 “Son of man, take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre and say to him: ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says: “ ‘You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 

13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone adorned you: carnelian, chrysolite and emerald, topaz, onyx and jasper, lapis lazuli, turquoise and beryl.Your settings and mountings were made of gold; on the day you were created they were prepared.

Here is a verse that places the devil, BEFORE he rebelled (see v.15) in the garden of Eden.

So yes, the earth was obviously habitable before it BECAME a WASTELAND

[FreeGrace]

11 hours ago, BeyondET said:

FreeGrace said: 

How does any of this explain another extinction?  It doesn't.  Keep trying, please.

Show me in scripture where cains descendants died in the flood?

Now, why would I care?  So if you are trying to make a point here, then please spoon feed me, as I have been doing to you.  SHOW me the evidence that would make a point.

What the Bible does say is that 8 people were rescued from the flood.  1 Pet 3:20 - 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

So, why do you think any descendent of Cain survived the flood?  It was Noah, his sons and their wives.  Gen 7:1

[FreeGrace]

11 hours ago, LiveWire said:

God made the Universe in its max position from word go.  Quantum Physics, Laws of Physics, Quantum Mechanics, even measuring by light years from millions to billions of years is just how big God created the Universe.   The Universe is not 13 Billion years old, God made it so big and vast it can literally be measured by as if it were that old.   

Science's biggest issue, they work center out and created a microwave spectrum.   Had they worked outward to Center, they would see factually this is a very YOUNG Universe.

What makes you believe this?  Thanks.

[FreeGrace]

11 hours ago, BeyondET said:

How many creations are there, you say original like the later wasn't 🤔

How come you're so full of questions, but you don't address my questions or points?

Original creation is Gen 1:1.  What follows is a restoration.

11 hours ago, BeyondET said:

That's the nonsense you think form remains the same and never becomes formless in its transformation from one form to another.

Even during such a "transition" there IS form.  I've asked for any example of an object that does not have form.  And you haven't provided any.  So why should I believe what you claim about "formlessness"?

11 hours ago, BeyondET said:

The bible only states what form earth was in before it took the form of dryland and seas earth.

Actually, it doesn't state anything about form.  Form is shape.  Learn that.

11 hours ago, BeyondET said:

Im prettt sure you can't tell me what form earth would look like without dryland and seas 

How about a naked ball.

Putting clothes on doesn't "create" form.  It does change appearance though.

I am becoming convinced that you don't understand the meaning of "form" when applied to an object.

[FreeGrace]

8 hours ago, BeyondET said:

Even the big bang is loosing its glimmer.

I would take issue that that statement.  Just because the evolutionists describe the origin of the universe as a big bang, doesn't mean evolution is correct.

When God spoke the entire universe into existence (Psa 33:9), why would anyone think that there would be no noise, or just a whisper or "pop"?

It is quite reasonable to believe that when God spoke the entire universe into existence all at once, an amazing symphony was heard.  

[FreeGrace]

2 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

Science indicates multiple mass extinction events in Earth's history as proven using several scientific methods. Genesis 1:1 to 2:23 is Jewish poetry, not meant to be a quantum science primer or physics textbook. Much of modern science is beyond the mindset of the early Jewish scholars.

Could you cite some examples of "mass extinction" since the great flood?  Thanks.