Pre-Adamic World: Fact or Fiction

[Vine Abider]

1 hour ago, David1701 said:

Did you mean, "Earth's Eeriest Ages"? 

Typo - "earliest" (that maybe was Freudian)

[BeyondET]

2 hours ago, David1701 said:

Aargh!  I'm obviously not getting my meaning across... 

I know that what you posted here is correct.

What I was referring to, in the following post:

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/286685-pre-adamic-world-fact-or-fiction/?do=findComment&comment=3607002

was the part I've made bold.  You said that the reason why cells live on for a time, after death (and I agree that they do), is that Adam's body was formed before God breathed into him.  This is reasonable speculation, but we can't prove it.

Ahh I see,  the scripture is pretty clear the human vessel was fully formed before the breath was applied that much is known, the man became.

Gen 2:7

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

 

Though I will say knowing if or if not the cells where living before the breath was applied isn't known. Imo they where.

Edited January 7, 2023 by BeyondET

[Guest]

23 hours ago, BeyondET said:

Well since you mentioned they are differentiated post me some scripture.

This is what I was asking you!

[Guest]

21 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Saved.One.by.Grace.

May I make a suggestion? I believe you will find the definition of a "soul" quite easy if you look at the origin of the soul: Genesis 2:7.

Genesis 2:7 (KJV)

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Here's the Hebrew (without vowel pointing, for your pleasure):

וייצר יהוה אלהים את־האדם עפר מן־האדמה ויפח באפיו נשמת חיים ויהי האדם לנפש חיה׃

A transliteration would be ...

7 Vyytsr YHWH Elhym 't-h'dm `fr mn-h'dmh vyfch b'fyw nshmt chyym vyhy b'dm lnfsh chyh:

And, a word-for-word translation would be ...

7 And-formed YHWH God (d.o.->)-the-red-[man] of-dust from-the-red-[ground] and-puffed in/into-his-nostrils a-puff of-living-creatures and-became the-red-[man] to/into-a-breathing-creature living:

The Hebrew word "n-f-sh" is pronounced "neh'-fesh" when a noun, and it is pronounced, "naw-fash'" when a verb. As a verb, it means "to breathe." As a noun, it means "something that breathes." Somehow, this was translated into the English word "soul."

So, YHWH God formed the-red-[man] of-dust from the red-[ground]. What could this mean if not the body of flesh? So, the "red man of dust" is a lifeless body at this point.

Then, YHWH God puffed into his nostrils a puff of living creatures. This is similar to rescue breathing in our CPR methods used today; in fact, it is the SOURCE of our rescue breathing in CPR, with the exception that we breathe into the victim's mouth instead of his or her nostrils, and we pinch the nostrils closed!

Then, the-red-[man] became a living, breathing creature! Nothing else was added, that we were told. No special magic was introduced. God puffed into his nose, and the man began breathing on his own. The "breathing creature" was translated into this word "soul." God PREPARED the body with living cells and complete systems; all it needed was a jump-start!

Now, look at the curse:

Genesis 3:17-20 (KJV)

17 And unto Adam he said,

"Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, 'Thou shalt not eat of it': cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."

20 And Adam called his wife's name "Eve" ("Chavah"); because she was the mother of all living.

Let's just look at verse 19 in the Hebrew:

בזעת אפיך תאכל לחם עד שובך אל־האדמה כי ממנה לקחת כי־עפר אתה ואל־עפר תשוב׃

Here's a transliteration (without vowels):

19 Bz`t 'fykh t'khl lchm `d shwVkh 'l-h'dmh ky mmnh lqcht ky-`fr 'th v'l-`fr tshwV:

Here's a word-for-word translation:

19 In-sweat of-your-face you-shall-eat bread until you-return unto-the-red-[ground] for from-it you-were-taken for-dust you-[are] and-to-dust you-shall-return:

THAT'S where we go when we die, just as our ancestor Adam did. Where is the "air-breathing?" It STOPS! It CEASES! That particular air-breathing creature CEASES to be an air-breathing creature!

At Bin-Yamiyn's birth, Rachel's air-breathing creature went to the same place that Adam did - BACK TO THE GROUND!

Now, I know this is not difficult to understand, but it is VERY difficult to accept. We've been taught a different theology for many generations. BUT, this is why the RESURRECTION is so important!

All I ask is that you think about it.

Correct me if you need to, but YHWH breathed life into animals as well as mankind. So both mankind and animals that breathe air have souls.

[Guest]

23 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, again, Saved.One.by.Grace.

(And, He may be requiring more "Grace" than usual, right now.) I got it from my grandmother on my mom's side, and from YHWH God who designed me to be a very logical and mathematical person, and from my mother who was ALWAYS showing me the value of language and grammar. How does anyone get a doctorate? Through DILIGENT WORK, EXPOSURE to ideas, and taking the time to LEARN! It's not just some embossed piece of paper or parchment!

If you want to challenge my Professor, go ahead! He alone is my Rabbi!

There's a simple path I take:

While I will investigate all angles of how a word is used in the Scriptures (Old or New Testaments), I've learned that the INTERSECTION of the definitions is more to the point than the UNION of the definitions! And, usually, the intersection is to be found in the etymology of the word.

Since Dr. Heiser is a teaching professor of both Hebrew and Greek, I will take his opinion over your Professor.

[Retrobyter]

10 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

I'm sorry, I got a little lost here . . . can someone bring me up to speed with how the discussion of the nature of the soul is related to a pre-Adamic race?

Thanks!

(BTW - I'm truly impressed by the caliper of the discussion, that is, the delving into the Hebrew.  You guys have been around the block a few times and have an impressive depth of knowledge on a variety of scripturally related things!  So a simple brother like me may not always follow where such involved conversations are going.)

Shalom, Vine Abider.

It's just one of the many reasons why there WASN'T a "pre-Adamic race."

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

I'm sorry, I got a little lost here . . . can someone bring me up to speed with how the discussion of the nature of the soul is related to a pre-Adamic race?

Thanks!

(BTW - I'm truly impressed by the caliper of the discussion, that is, the delving into the Hebrew.  You guys have been around the block a few times and have an impressive depth of knowledge on a variety of scripturally related things!  So a simple brother like me may not always follow where such involved conversations are going.)

We've had an excellent discussion here which has not caused division among brothers and sisters in Christ. I am so pleased by that.

How does this relate to our pre-Adamic race discussion? We moved to a tangential subject of the creation of the soul and what is a soul and how it relates to the spirit. I don't believe we've exhausted or discussion of the Hebrew yet.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Thanks . . . those people - they're the worst!    As I remember from reading Pember's book ("Earth's Earliest Ages"), he believed demons are the disembodied spirits of that pre-Adamic race.

We could probably start another thread on Demons.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Vine Abider.

It's just one of the many reasons why there WASN'T a "pre-Adamic race."

There wasn't a previous Adamic race of humans, on that we agree.

[Retrobyter]

10 hours ago, David1701 said:

I meant that the other part of your second sentence was speculation.  It's a guess that that's why cells keep living for a while, after the spirit has left the body (a reasonable guess, but still a guess).

Shalom, David1701.

Yes, that's a reasonable conclusion. Corpses still have growing fingernails and hair for several months after the person is deceased. When a person "gives up the ghost," or "breathes his last breath," the body's cells continue to function for a while, even though the whole creature is without function enough that the person could not continue to be called "alive."