Man was in Pangaea

[The Barbarian]

4 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

I know I missed a few pages but what Bible translation are you referencing when you say" the Bible"?

I must agree with reply from RetroB because many of the translated (& transliterated)words are inadequate in comparison to the earlier manuscripts and text that we have available to research--- so yeah,I do believe many translations are not accurate - however God's Word is the same yesterday,today and forevermore.     We can trust " the Bible" with Holy Spirit to Reveal His Truth.....

I'm sure you agree that translations do vary ,right?

I don't think that any of the translations I've seen have varied on this one:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=genesis+1%3A5&version=KJV

My thought is that the "errors" in the Bible are not those that matter to our salvation, but are just incidental things translators assumed.

 

 

[Retrobyter]

5 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

I don't think that any of the translations I've seen have varied on this one:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=genesis+1%3A5&version=KJV

My thought is that the "errors" in the Bible are not those that matter to our salvation, but are just incidental things translators assumed.

Shalom, The Barbarian.

You're right! However, these "incidental things" that "translators assumed" have side-tracked you! When one wants to be "nit-picky" about the text, one had better be likewise "nit-picky" about one's definitions! They DO make a difference!

[kwikphilly]

11 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

I don't think that any of the translations I've seen have varied on this one:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=genesis+1%3A5&version=KJV

My thought is that the "errors" in the Bible are not those that matter to our salvation, but are just incidental things translators assumed.

 

 

I agree, definitely not Salvational issues !

Thanks for your reply,I was much too lazy to go back to see what you guys were referencingI don't think it makes a difference either because it is not a single verse of Scripture that has brought you to your position just as it is not for me...

I do take the Word of God literally ( for the most part) and I do Believe in a literal 6 day Creation but I most certainly can be wrong- I'm sure we will find out when we move on out of here,lol Still,I can Understand and respect others positions ,no reason for any division- we both Believe  what does matter most---- Praise Jesus!

Funny,if either of us were persuaded to Believe the opposite of what we do Believe( a day,a thousand or a million days) it really wouldn't change a thing,would it?🤔

In His Love,Kwik

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, @The Barbarian.

While the original manuscripts of the Bible have not been found or preserved, we KNOW that the Bible is the very Word of God! That being said, one must also admit that there's no such thing as a perfect translation of the Bible. The King James Version was good enough for most English-speaking people for over 400 years, but living languages CHANGE! They morph with the societies that speak them! They also grow apart in isolation or even semi-isolation. That's why British English is different in many respects from American English.

The British Empire tried to minimize that by spreading colonies world-wide, but Australian English is different than New Zealand English, and both are different than Canadian English! Canadian English and American English are close, but we have radio and relaxed border restrictions to thank for that. It just can't be helped; we are a people who change from day to day, and languages will change along with us.

This is why that the "Sacred Languages" were considered "dead languages" for a long while. No one habitually spoke them, Koine Greek and Ancient Hebrew didn't change for a long time! Now, Hebrew has been revived, and Christian churches have been getting better about biblical Greek (and Hebrew) study! So, there are bound to be effects on our understanding of the Bible.

Our knowledge of ancient texts is deeper, and thanks to archaeology that doesn't go into a dig site like a bulldozer, destroying as it goes, we've been able to recover many ancient copies and partial copies of the original text. Caches of ancient texts, like the Dead Sea Scrolls in the caves at Qumran, have been found, and with all the finds, teams of linguists have been attempting to put all the pieces together.

Regardless, we can still trust the Scriptures to be God's Word, and it is quick (living) and powerful, and we are confident of enough of it to know how one can come to the new birth through it!

There are no "errors" in Scripture. There are misunderstandings and poor word choices in translation, but that doesn't affect the original documents! And, God will still bless the reading of His Word.

I should add that I write this post to alleviate the concerns of the novice who might be reading along with us. I trust you already know all this.

[The Barbarian]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

There are no "errors" in Scripture. There are misunderstandings and poor word choices in translation, but that doesn't affect the original documents! And, God will still bless the reading of His Word.

I should add that I write this post to alleviate the concerns of the novice who might be reading along with us. I trust you already know all this.

There are no errors in His message to us.   However, the sky is not a solid dome with windows in it through which rain falls, to give one example.   Such things merely reflect cultural assumptions of the people who wrote down His inspiration.

 

[The Barbarian]

1 hour ago, kwikphilly said:

Funny,if either of us were persuaded to Believe the opposite of what we do Believe( a day,a thousand or a million days) it really wouldn't change a thing,would it?🤔

No, it wouldn't.   On of the purposes of Jesus' ministry was to cut through all the Pharisee pilpul, and point out what the actual message was.   Often, His sermons where the equivalent of grabbing us by the collar and saying.  "Look here!   This is what I'm telling you.   Here's what I want you to do and to be!   Don't read it like an insurance policy.   Don't treat it like a contract, looking for loopholes.    Just do this..."

And then He'd tell us a story to make it easier.   And people would still get it wrong, and He'd grieve for our stubborn resistance and our willful stupidity.

 

[kwikphilly]

1 hour ago, The Barbarian said:

No, it wouldn't.   On of the purposes of Jesus' ministry was to cut through all the Pharisee pilpul, and point out what the actual message was.   Often, His sermons where the equivalent of grabbing us by the collar and saying.  "Look here!   This is what I'm telling you.   Here's what I want you to do and to be!   Don't read it like an insurance policy.   Don't treat it like a contract, looking for loopholes.    Just do this..."

And then He'd tell us a story to make it easier.   And people would still get it wrong, and He'd grieve for our stubborn resistance and our willful stupidity.

 

Amen!👍

[Retrobyter]

3 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

There are no errors in His message to us.   However, the sky is not a solid dome with windows in it through which rain falls, to give one example.   Such things merely reflect cultural assumptions of the people who wrote down His inspiration.

Shalom, The Barbarian.

Well, that's just the silly ways that people have INTERPRETED what was said. It was REALLY bad during the Dark Ages, with their two-dimensional heaven-earth-hell imagery.

An "expanse" (Hebrew: "raqiya` ") doesn't means a "steel plate!" It  means an "EXPANSE!" And, only gases expand. I've actually said that before, and another Worthy client laughed at me.

The truth is in every word used within the text. Give God credit for telling the truth, even when one doesn't know the whole truth from that text.

[The Barbarian]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

Well, that's just the silly ways that people have INTERPRETED what was said.

They took the Bible literally, when it was figurative.    And in some cases, the person transcribing the message, added some of his thinking into it.   Hence the "floodgates of Heaven."

Genesis 8:2 Now the springs of the deep and the floodgates of the heavens had been closed, and the rain had stopped falling from the sky.

Just as some people took the "days" of creation literally, so did some take the floodgates of Heaven literally.   It doesn't mean the Bible is wrong; it means sometimes people are overlooking the actual message.

An "expanse" (Hebrew: "

raqiya` ") doesn't means a "steel plate!"

Strong's Concordance

raqia: an extended surface, expanse

Original Word: רָקִיעַ
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: raqia
Phonetic Spelling: (raw-kee'-ah)
Definition: an extended surface, expanse

...

Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon

Raqiya`

raw-kee'-ah

Noun Masculine

extended surface (solid), expanse, firmament

expanse (flat as base, support)

firmament (of vault of heaven supporting waters above)

considered by Hebrews as solid and supporting 'waters' above

It  means an "EXPANSE!"

Like hammered metal producing a bowl.   

And, only gases expand.

Metal expands when heated, and of course it expands as it is hammered.  In fact, I can't think of a material that does not expand with changes in temperature.

The word raqiya comes from the root word raqa which can be found in several passages including Isaiah 40:19 – “The idol! a workman casts it, and a goldsmith overlays it with gold, and casts for it silver chains.” The word “overlay” is the verb root raqa. Raqa is the process of hammering out a piece of gold or other metal into thin plates which was then applied to a carved or molten image. Numbers 16:39 reads “So Eleazar the priest took the bronze censers, which those who were burned had offered; and they were hammered out as a covering for the altar.” Here, the phrase “were hammered out” is again the verb root raqa. The gold was hammered into thin sheets then laid over the surface of the alter. The word raqiya is the noun form of the verb raqa and is literally a “hammered out sheet”.

https://theserapeum.com/firmament/

I've actually said that before, and another Worthy client laughed at me.

No point in laughing at people, but this clearly shows that the Hebrews like almost all peoples of the time, thought there was a solid dome above them.

 

Edited March 5, 2023 by The Barbarian

[Retrobyter]

5 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

They took the Bible literally, when it was figurative.    And in some cases, the person transcribing the message, added some of his thinking into it.   Hence the "floodgates of Heaven."

Genesis 8:2 Now the springs of the deep and the floodgates of the heavens had been closed, and the rain had stopped falling from the sky.

Just as some people took the "days" of creation literally, so did some take the floodgates of Heaven literally.   It doesn't mean the Bible is wrong; it means sometimes people are overlooking the actual message.

Shalom, The Barbarian.

And, so they should have! Here's Genesis 8:2 in Hebrew:

וַיִּסָּֽכְרוּ֙ מַעְיְנֹ֣ת תְּהֹ֔ום וַֽאֲרֻבֹּ֖ת הַשָּׁמָ֑יִם וַיִּכָּלֵ֥א הַגֶּ֖שֶׁם מִן־הַשָּׁמָֽיִם׃

This transliterates to ...

2 Vayyiccaakhuw ma`ynot t-howm va'arubot hashaamaayim vayyikalee' haggeshem min-hashaamaayim:

This translates word-for-word as ...

2 And-were-stopped-up springs of-deep and-the-sluices of-the-skies and-was-restrained the-rain from-the-skies:

So, the actual word picture is this:

2 And the springs of the deep and the sluices of the skies were stopped up and the rain was restrained from the skies:

Now, understand this: In the original Creation of Genesis 1, on Day 2, we read this:

Genesis 1:6-8 (KJV)

6 And God said,

"Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters."

7 And God made the firmament (Hebrew: raqiya` = the gaseous "expanse"), and divided the waters which were UNDER the firmament from the waters which were ABOVE the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament "Heaven." (Hebrew: shaamaayim = "Skies.") And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Then, on Day 3, we read:

Genesis 1:9-13 (KJV)

9 And God said,

"Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear":

and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land "Earth" (Hebrew: 'erets = "land"); and the gathering together of the waters called he "Seas" (Hebrew: yammiym = "seas"): and God saw that it was good. 

11 And God said,

"Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth":

and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

So, picture what is going on: On Day 2, God makes the "waters-skies-waters sandwich," putting just as much water ABOVE the skies as below the skies!

Then, on Day 3, He forms the dry land jutting out of the waters below the skies - Pangaea (which means "all earth"). Upon this dry land, God brought forth the grasses, the herbs, and the fruit-bearing trees.

When the Flood began, later during Noach's lifetime, we read this:

Genesis 7:11-12 (KJV)

11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. 12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

The Hebrew of verses 11 and 12 are ...

בִּשְׁנַ֨ת שֵׁשׁ־מֵאֹ֤ות שָׁנָה֙ לְחַיֵּי־נֹ֔חַ בַּחֹ֙דֶשׁ֙ הַשֵּׁנִ֔י בְּשִׁבְעָֽה־עָשָׂ֥ר יֹ֖ום לַחֹ֑דֶשׁ בַּיֹּ֣ום הַזֶּ֗ה נִבְקְעוּ֙ כָּֽל־מַעְיְנֹת֙ תְּהֹ֣ום רַבָּ֔ה וַאֲרֻבֹּ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם נִפְתָּֽחוּ׃
וַֽיְהִ֥י הַגֶּ֖שֶׁם עַל־הָאָ֑רֶץ אַרְבָּעִ֣ים יֹ֔ום וְאַרְבָּעִ֖ים לָֽיְלָה׃

This is transliterated as ...

11 bishnat sheesh-mee'owt shaanaah l-hayyeey-Noach bachodesh hasheeniy bshiV`aah-`aasaar yowm lachodesh bayyowm hazzeh niVq`uw kaal-ma`ynot t-howm rabaah va'arubot hashshaamayim niftaachuw:
12 Vayhiy hagaashaam `al-haa'aarets 'arbaa`iym yowm v'arba`iym laaylaah: 

Translating to ...

11 In-the-year six-hundredth year for-the-life of-Noach in-the-month the-second in seventh-[and]-tenth day for-the-month in-the-day that-one burst-forth all-springs of-the-deep many and-the-sluices of-the-skies were-opened:
12 There-was the-rain upon-the-land forty days and-forty nights:

Rearranged for English, we get,

11 In the six hundredth year for the life of Noach, in the second month, in the seventeenth day of the month, in that day all of the many springs of the deep burst forth, and the sluices of the skies were opened:
12 The rain was there upon the land forty days and forty nights:

These words suggest that first, the many springs of the deep burst forth and then the waters came GUSHING down when it rained for those 40 days and 40 nights.

This was no light rain! This was worse than a torrential downpour! Yes, there's a little imagery there, but it's there to DESCRIBE the inundation of water!

So, all of the water - half of the water on the planet, however it was suspended above the skies - was released from the waters above the skies in a mere 40 days and nights! It ALL came crashing down!

No air-breathing animal or human being survived that, UNLESS they were with Noach and his family within the ark!

This was no small flood in Mesopotamia! This was GLOBAL! It was RELENTLESS! And it was a KILLER! They prepared the ark for 120 years! If they could have just moved to another location, then the ark would not have been necessary! 

Practically every culture on the face of the planet has a flood story in its history! Why would that be?