God's Divine Protection Of The Church During The Tribulation

[Sister]

On 2/6/2023 at 9:34 PM, Dennis1209 said:

The 144,000 are twelve thousand from each of the tribes of Israel. Today we refer to them as Messianic Jews, IMO. Again, only my thought process and interpretation of the biblical narrative.

I understand about the thought process.  I go through this all the time and have to disregard what I thought I knew as new thoughts or information comes to light.

Here's one for you. Are Messianic Jews holier than Gentiles that follow Christ wheresoever he goes? 

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by Sister

[Dennis1209]

5 hours ago, Sister said:

Here's one for you. Are Messianic Jews holier than Gentiles that follow Christ wheresoever he goes? 

Good afternoon, Sister,

That is a good question, and I do not believe so.

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

With one exception, the Bible was penned by Jews, Jesus’s incarnation was a Jew, and Jews preserved the scriptures. They are a race, a peculiar people chosen and set aside as God’s own people with a covenant.

Converting to Messianic means departing from orthodox Judaism to saving faith in the Lord Jesus. But he cannot change his race and heritage and remains Jewish.

The Jewish Temple, ceremonial, and sacrificial system will return during the millennium, but that is another long explanation.

 

[Sister]

3 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Good afternoon, Sister,

That is a good question, and I do not believe so.

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

 

Hi Dennis1209

That's right because otherwise it would go against scripture,  ....what we were previously assured of here;

  Acts 15:7   And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

  Acts 15:8   And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

  Acts 15:9   And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
 

And here;

Romans 3:9   What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

Romans 3:10   As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Romans 3:11   There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Romans 3:12   They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

All under sin, Jews and Gentiles.

Romans 3:21   But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Romans 3:22   Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 3:29   Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

So, the 144,000 are the cream of the crop.  I have to correct myself here, as I was adamant before that the 144,000 were those living in the end times but I can see clearer now.  Since Christ came, there are only 144,000 who have followed the Lamb wheresoever he goes.  This means that out of millions of believers from Christ till today, ...only 144,000 have followed Christ in spirit and in truth.  Most are in the graves, and some were killed, some are yet to be killed, and some will live, so there is a remainder of that number now living.  Even the apostles will be in that number.  Together they are all the firstfruits, the sealed.  Consisting of Jew and Gentile, and according to their faith and obedience in Christ, and not according to their race. 

These are all the firstfruits of the first resurrection apart from the great multitude.  From what I see they will be taken up first to meet Christ in the air, then after that the larger group will be gathered.

 1 Corinthians 15:23   But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
 

It's important not to get the remnant of Israel confused with the 144K.  They are separate groups.  The 144k are the firstfruits of the first resurrection - those who followed Christ in spirit and in truth and who shined above the rest.  This is a very elite group who will reign as kings and priests with Christ.  The apostles will be the kings.  The brightest of the 144k.

[Michael37]

11 minutes ago, anetazo said:

Revelation chapter 11,  satan as antichrist,  loses his mind  over the testimony of the two witnesses,  and  kills them.

Hi anetazo,

Welcome to one of Worthy's frequently discussed topics. 

Satan is not either of the beasts mentioned in Revelation 13 and elsewhere.

After the first beast and the false prophet are cast into the Lake of Fire Satan is chained and cast into the abyss for 1000 years, then released to face his final defeat by God at which juncture he is also cast into the Lake of Fire. 

Rev 19:20  Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Rev 20:1-3  Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.  (2)  He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;  (3)  and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

Rev 20:10  The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Blessings From Michael37

[farouk]

On 2/14/2023 at 10:37 AM, Sister said:

Hi Dennis1209

I am not 100% sure of the meaning of Moses and Elijah appearing in that vision, but there must be another reason and some things stand out.  Firstly Moses was of the tribe of Levi, and Elijah of the tribe of Ephraim which I only just noticed.  Something to think on there.....Who does Ephraim symbolise, or does it have nothing to do with it?  Just thoughts.

 

  Luke 9:30   And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:

  Luke 9:31   Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

So in this vision Moses and Elijah spoke to Jesus of his death which would soon happen at Jerusalem.    Was the vision a replay of what was already prophesied in the OT?  ...

so 8 days before the vision, Jesus stated this to his apostles;

  Luke 9:27   But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
 

And then you have Peter, John and James 8 days later who got a glimpse of the kingdom in the form of that apparition. I think they witnessed the holy spirit in all three glorified, and we know the holy spirit is the spirit of truth, of which the kingdom of God consists of.  So Jesus words were fulfilled here.

I don't think this has anything to do with the two witnesses who will come in the end times, plus Moses is already dead, so that rules him out.

 

 

 

 

Hi @Sister Interesting that Romans 3 speaks of the righteousness of God without the law being 'witnessed by the law and the prophets'; and Moses represented the part of the OT known as the law and Elijah represented that part of the OT known as the prophets.....